Previously: Why It's Nearly Impossible To Sue The LDS Church For Fraud
For lack of a better idea, I've cribbed the title of this piece from a talk given by Denver Snuffer in 2016 which you can listen to HERE.
What I want to address first is a silly rumor being passed around among the those in the Restoration movement. Don't worry, I won't be using any names.
According to the gossip, a wealthy Provo doctor (the medical kind, not the Jill Biden kind) has spent 40 million dollars to purchase massive amounts of land in and around Lemhi County, Idaho for the purpose of providing God's people with a place to establish Zion and/or (depending on who's telling this story) for the building of a temple in that area.
This rumor started with one guy who I won't name, and quickly spread until Connie saw it on a thread that was sent to her. I immediately pegged this story as false. Ridiculously false, in fact, for reasons I'll get to below.
I happen to know this doctor. I'll call him "Stan." I assume Dr. Stan makes a decent living in his specialty, but I seriously doubt his practice has brought in forty million dollars. But then again, I've never asked him.
Some years ago Stan and I had communicated by phone and email, but we had never met in person. Then one day Stan called me to say, "Hey Rock, this is Stan. My daughters and I are here in Sandpoint. Would you like us to stop by for a quick visit?"
I excitedly responded, "Boy, would I!"
"Well, we're at Safeway right now but we can come by in a few minutes. Can we bring you anything from the store while we're here?
"Well actually, Stan, I have been craving a glazed donut so bad I was actually contemplating driving to the store to get one."
"You want a donut?"
"So bad I can taste it."
So thirty minutes later I got to meet Dr. Stan and his two lovely daughters. And they brought me a donut which they refused to take my money for. And a sack of vegetables, for some reason.
That was two or three years ago. So to bring this story up to the present, immediately after I heard this rumor about Stan purchasing Zion, I sent him a teasing email:
"Say Stan, as long as you have 40 million dollars to throw around, do you think I can get you to buy me another donut?"
We spoke on the phone shortly after that and Stan admitted he was pretty miffed at having his name attached to a crazy rumor like that. He told the guy who started the rumor that it was 100% false, and of course reiterated the same to me. Unfortunately, once it left the lips of the first guy the rumor seemed to have speedily spread. Like Mark Twain said, "a lie can travel half way around the world before the truth has a chance to put its boots on."
So, for the record, let's be clear: nobody is buying up land for the purpose of establishing Zion or a temple in or around Lemhi County, Idaho or anywhere else. Especially not Dr. Stan.
At least Stan is not the lone victim of such a rumor. In the past few years, the rumor mill has placed the coming Zion in Missouri (natch!); Mount Pleasant, Utah; The Hopi reservation, Challis, Idaho; somewhere in Montana; and Northern Idaho. I'm partial to that last one, because Northern Idaho is where Connie and I live now and when the call comes, having Zion located right down the street from us would suit me just fine.
The location of Zion is understandably one of great interest to a lot of people in the Remnant, as it certainly feels like the world is getting more wicked by the day. With the growing feeling that circumstances are closing in on us, I can certainly understand others' keen interest in knowing where the good people will end up so we can start making the physical preparations to at least move closer to where Zion is to be located. But the Lord is keeping that information to himself for now, so all we can do is prepare ourselves morally and spiritually to be ready. It will be the Lord who establishes Zion's whereabouts, and He is the one who controls the timeline. Since Connie and I are now in our golden years, with any luck we will have returned to the bosom of Abraham before that time occurs, because as far as I'm concerned, shuffling off this mortal coil would be a lot less of a hassle than packing up and moving again for the umpteenth time. Too bad about the rest of you guys.
What DO We Know About Zion, Anyway?
Admittedly, the topic of Zion has been confusing to a lot of people, so here is the little bit I understand about the topic:
Zion will be established preliminary to the Lord's return in glory. If I understand correctly, there must be a dedicated temple for the Lord to return to before he makes his return in glory, because he cannot first set foot on the earth without everything he touches being consumed. This is a rather simple analogy, but I see the temple as functioning as a sort of stargate, a way for God to leave the dimension He resides in and enter into ours to begin the process of his return. I could be wrong, but that seems to me like an apt yet simple description regarding the how and why.
Zion will be a place of refuge (D&C 45:66) for God's people because that will be the place He governs from as king before the wicked are destroyed. This will be our safe place where none can get to us, as "he that fighteth against Zion shall perish." (2 Nephi 10:13) If you're following current events, you can see having a safe place to live that is out of reach of the wicked might be a pretty nifty thing. I certainly understand why rumors get started, because some people just can't wait. As the Lord tells us in D&C 45, verse 70, the bad guys will know better than to even try to get at us once we're safely ensconced in Zion. That place, wherever it turns out to be, will be better than a bunker; the ultimate safe room: "it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand."
As Denver Snuffer puts it,
"God will be the force with which the nations of the earth must contend if they intend to do harm to Zion, because it is His government, it is His handiwork, and it is an affront to Him to challenge His authority in attacking Zion." -Denver Snuffer, "Zion Will Come"
So ease your minds, because
"It is going to come to pass. In your enthusiasm it would be better to demonstrate the virtue of patience as the Lord brings His work about than to exhibit the character flaw of impatience and enthusiasm in trying to bring about what the Lord intends Himself to cause to happen, because you cannot, you cannot give birth prematurely to a living Zion because it will choke and it will die because it is unable to be viable outside of the hands of the Lord. We have to wait on Him..." -ibid at 50:21
"...If you think that you can out-think the Lord and you can arrive at the right place and the right time, then go ahead and buy some farmland in and around Independence, Missouri and wait for the burning, because you're not going to be at the right place. If Independence, Missouri was where the Lord intended Zion to be, he wouldn't have told them in January of 1841 that he was going to make Nauvoo the corner of Zion. It is portable until it is fixed by Him. -ibid at 1:08:28
So What Do We Do In The Meantime?
In the meantime, we wait on the Lord. But while we're waiting, we prepare outselves: morally, spiritually, and physically. Store up what provisions you are able to, so your resources are not strained as times get increasingly difficult. Constantly show kindness to the people you interact with, so that you will be able to stand before the Lord with a pure heart. Most of all, be charitable. And what I mean by that is this: don't judge others just because you may not feel they are doing enough to bring about Zion. You focus on yourself and concern yourself only with whether or not you and your family will be ready to depart when the time comes. Do what you can to comfort others. If the only other person in your house is your spouse, try giving more attention to him or her than you do to yourself. Ask yourself what you need to do to become a more loving, outward-focused individual in your interactions, both with your friends and especially with strangers. If you only do that, you might be halfway qualified for Zion already.
Also remember to have fun. In these increasingly stressful times there is still plenty to laugh about and enjoy. Do you have a hobby that doesn't cost much? Then find time to enjoy it! Start a blog and write about whatever interests you. Who cares if nobody reads it? Blogging is still free, so what's stopping you? At the very least it's a dandy way of keeping a journal about the things that interest you. That's what I did. I named my other blog Aging Hipster Doofus. Unlike this blog, that one is a depository for short bits of fribble that reflect my interest in 20th century popular culture.
And guess what? Nobody reads it!
Perhaps one of the most effective ways to prepare for Zion is to give Zion-living some real-world practice. If you are not already involved with a local fellowship, by all means hook up with like-minded people. Zion fellowships have taken hold all over the world, with the largest concentration in the Rocky Mountain states as you would presume. If you can't find like-minded people, pull up the Fellowship Locator online. If you still can't find a physical group to gather with, there's still the Fellowship of Christ Facebook Group. Lots of fascinating discussions going on there.
Keep in mind that the actual Zion will operate much like the Kingdom of God on earth; which is to say one won't require a background in Mormonism in order to belong. So if you live in an area bereft of other believers in the Restoration, not to worry. Cultivate friendships with your neighbors and begin to live as much as you can as if you were already part of the Kingdom of God. (See here for my three-part series titled "The Church Ain't The Kingdom" to understand what that entails. God's intention for his Kingdom of God on earth is very different than you may have supposed.
Just because these are serious times, it's no time to take things too seriously. As important as it is to keep up with what the politicians are doing to us, it's even more fun to laugh at and mock them. Remember, the scriptures tell us we win in the end. If you are trusting on the Lord and doing everything you can to withstand the coming tribulations, you'll be alright. The worst they can do is kill you, and that just means you get to go home early. What could be better than that?
Notes and Asides:
Fascinating expose at Book of Mormon Perspective
I've been gathering notes these past couple of months in order to blog about the odd collusion that's been going on between leaders of the Corporate LDS Church and elements of the Deep State, but it looks like I've been spared the trouble of writing about this issue. Just this morning the author of Book of Mormon Perspective beat me to the punch. Not only did he get here first, he has provided a more thorough take on the topic than I ever envisioned.
The piece is titled The Beast Is Coming To Utah, and in one section he wrote about something I think might be pertinent to what I've discussed here today. As many people are aware, elements in the deep state and the federal government have for years been passing legislation making it increasingly impossible for ranchers and farmers to make a living off their own land. The ostensible goal of crowding these landowners out has been to "protect the environment" but what the enemy is actually doing is attempting to crowd all the humans into the cities where they can be more easily controlled, while keeping millions of square miles of useful land effectively under their own control.
This made me think: what if, at the Lord's return, he takes all that "government land" that was stolen by the modern Gadianton Robbers, and gives it back to the people to develop, farm, and live on? That would solve the question some people have wondered about, which is "if God's people move into an area to make it Zion, what about the people who already live there? Are they displaced?"
The answer, of course, would be no. No one would be displaced except the globalist squatters who stole it.
My Other Blog
In case anyone is interested in exploring the content at Aging Hipster Doofus, here are the subjects of my most recent posts on that site:
Mr. Acker Bilk Got Here Before The Beatles
The Very First Rock And Roll Record Was Released In 1934
There's more to come. These things are brief and so and easy to write that I can knock one out every day if I want to.
And I kinda do want to, so I hope you'll pop in now and then.
Interesting that you can't even get the "gossip" right, Rock, though it doesn't seem you have any hesitation to blog about it shortly after it is brought to your attention. It might be 100% false, as your friend "Stan" insists, but this "rumor" has been percolating for some months now from a multitude of sources independent of "Stan". The "gossip" has assembled as a result of various elements being added to the picture. Like it or not--despite protestations--some of these elements are loosely correct...but we can all be assured that our intrepid truth seeker on this site will authoritatively set the peons straight. And of course, the best way to lay rest the "gossip" or "rumor" is for you to blast it out on your blog...seeming without much reflection or investigation. Kinda a big self-own...don't you think?
Pimm, my dude . . . if Rock knows the guy the rumor's centered around, talks with him personally, and gets the story from him, I'm going to trust that account a bit more than the 4th or 5th-hand accounts of that same guy buying up $40M worth of Idaho land, no matter what apocryphal "proofs" are provided. (Though I'd personally find it hilarious if you two are talking about different rumors of somebody buying up $40M in land, and he's debunking one while you're defending another. Rock doesn't give us a name, so even if you provide one, you could still be talking past each other.) XD
All jokes aside, I do think this could serve as another reminder to avoid hearsay, and go directly to the source of the rumor for clarification. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of rumors about Joseph Smith, and we only have so much material to verify or clarify any of those. We currently have a much greater capacity for verification, and I think we take that for granted sometimes.
But hey, if people think that's the Lord's work, and they flock there and make something good out of it, then all well and good for them. Do what God tells you to do, and go from there. I'll keep doing the same for my family. : )
Pimm, I'll have to go with Knight's rebuttal to your comment above. I'm not sure you understand the difference between participating in the spreading a rumor verses debunking it. I'm pretty sure I gave that thing a decent debunking. As Knight reminds us, I went to the source with the purpose of nipping the thing before it continued spreading.
Also Knight, I agree with you that if someone wants to buy land and make something good out of it, and if others flock to that area in hopes of creating a Zion-type society, that's a good thing. People with similar beliefs SHOULD learn to live near each other and fellowship together. Six or so years ago a bunch of us from other states who met on a Facebook thread began discussing the idea of moving up here to Northern Idaho because where we were currently living had lost it's appeal (some of us escaped from California.) A handful of families bought land and built homes within walking distance of each other outside the town of Sandpoint, others are a few miles away from that neighborhood while Connie and I settled in an apartment near Ponderay. Others live about an hour away up in Bonner's Ferry and still others East of that in Moyie Springs. Mostly because of the geographic distances, we ended up with three separate fellowships, so now there's one in Bonner's Ferry and another in Moyie Springs, in addition to the fellowship Connie and associate with here in the Sandpoint area.
Connie and I didn't buy land, because we had no resources to do so, but we would have if we could, even knowing that one day we might have to leave it all behind.
(That's why I'm rooting for an early demise, Connie first and then me. THAT'S how much we hate moving!)
I didn't take Knight's comment as needing a rebuttal. He merely speculated that you got your information from "Stan"...and that "Stan" denied having anything to do with a $40 million land purchase. I agree with that assessment; there was nothing to rebut.
I will, however, call you out for the arrogant and slimy manner in which you rushed to blast this "gossip" out on your blog.
You referenced "Stan", who was a "victim" of this rumor or "gossip". You also referenced "one guy" who you represented as the "first" source for this "gossip". You then implied with your Churchill paraphrase that this person was a liar. Given the context of your writing, you implied you knew who that person was...but would magnanimously not print "his" name...presumably because you at least aren't so stupid as to libel someone directly on your blog.
Before you go off half cocked spreading rumors like this only to lamely whine that you heroically are attempting to debunk them, let me give you some unsolicited advice:
1) All land transactions are public record. The sale of a $40 million parcel would be easy to look up in the County with jurisdiction. Did you lift a finger to perform such research before thundering your verdict from on high?
2) While speaking with "Stan", did it occur to you that you might check the facts with the other guy accused of starting the rumor? I'm sure that "Stan" is a man of integrity...what makes you the judge and jury that the supposed gossip monger isn't? Could it be that "Stan" or this other guy didn't quite understand each other? (I would add this is an emphatic YES!!!) Why jump to conclusions without hearing the other side(s) of the story?
3) Could it be that you were manipulated into writing this story in the first place? I can think of several reasons you would be manipulated into making a clown of yourself...but I'll keep them to myself because I don't want to add any more fuel to this clown show as it is.
4) I don't know you except for reading your blog over the years, and I don't think you know me. Reading your blog, it occurs to me that you have some narcissist tendencies...this post seems to place this narcissism on display. Too much of this is about you...what with your cute "donuts" story and all. You might consider that in future posts.
I apologize that this post might seem harsh. You make some harsh accusations in your original post that I believe need rebutting. Again, when similar situations present themselves and you wish to write about them, I would suggest you use reflection and research so as to avoid a clown show...as you have with this post.
Well Pimm, you seem unusually invested in this topic, but okay, I'll bite.
For the record, no one suggested I write about this rumor. But I did contact Stan once I heard it because he is a friend of mine and I wanted to have a laugh with him.
Seeing as this is just one of a long line of such silly rumors about people buying up acreage to build Zion or a temple, during our conversation I suggested to Stan that it might not be a bad idea for me to address it on my blog. Seeing as how some people in the Remnant movement seem to have a rather nebulous idea of how Zion is prophesied to come about, this seemed like as good a time as any to weigh in. So this latest rumor was just a springboard, a motivation to address the topic.
"Stan" did not object to my using his real name, but eventually I decided it would be just as well if I didn't use ANY names, and he agreed. Stan did tell me the name of the first person who promulgated the story, so we do know at least in this instance who it was who named Stan as the target of this rumor. So there was no need to consult the county records or any other sources. Not that important, in my view. Plus I saw no reason to embarrass this guy by calling him out on it publicly. After all, the target of the rumor, Stan, had already set the originator straight and that guy had already apologized to Stan. The rumor was false; that's all we need to know. No need to point fingers.
As for your allegation that I'm a narcissist, I don't see how that's remotely possible. A narcisist is an attention seeker who cares only about himself. I don't care only about myself; I also care about people who bring me donuts. That makes ME the hero of this story.
If there is "no need to point fingers", why did you imply that "Stan's" contact was a liar? Calling a friend a liar is sure to get people "unusually invested in this topic"...don't you think? Or do you casually cast that libel/slander around as a nonchalant talking point...just because it suits your purposes???
You assume (my word...not yours) that "Stan" was the "target" of this rumor. That has always been laughably wrong...and non-nonsensical. I would suggest that if "Stan" was "miffed" at this rumor...he should have known better...presuming he has reasonable English comprehension skills. The supposed purchaser was always someone else.
You might be aware that if you divide the word "assume" into its various parts, it suggests that by doing so you make an "ass" out of u and me. There is a lot of "assume" to this clown show.
By not contacting "Stan's" contact...or by not checking those County records, you have demonstrated you are willing to write a smear piece without doing any "due diligence". I'd suggest for future blog posts, that you should exercise a minimum of due diligence and less fawning belief in the word of someone who just might be playing you.
I'm the guy who first called McKay maybe a month ago to ask if he knew if there were any merit to rumors I had heard about the purchase of properties in the Lost River Valley. McKay suggested that instead it was in the Lemhi Valley...and that this was a "useful" rumor. That was cryptic...and certainly curious. Over the past month, I shared that casually with several close friends who first told me of the rumors...the last of which inquired of others in the past week. Apparently, that is when McKay's phone started ringing. McKay called me...and we discussed what had happened. I took responsibility for asking others if there were merit to the rumors...and apologized that I had referenced McKay's cryptic observations that this was a "useful" rumor. Except I had conflated a "useful" rumor with a "good" rumor. I still am not sure I can discern the difference. I'm told that "useful" is meant as a distraction. At no point was McKay identified by me as the purchaser.
If anyone wishes to dispute my experience enunciated above, I have receipts...
I agree with my friend Pimm on his takes expressed above. Further, Rock, if you didn't want to "embarrass" me by "calling (me) out on it publicly", you sure as hell had no compunction implying that I "targeted" McKay and that I was a liar. Them's fighting words for those of us who aren't hippies.
Take the loss, Rock. You had absolutely no business grandstanding on this topic at my or anyone else's expense. YOU should be embarrassed at how poorly you have handled this situation. In my curiosity to confirm rumors, I spread this to a few. You blasted it out to the world.
Pimm: As you say, “ this "rumor" has been percolating for some months now from a multitude of sources independent of "Stan". I trust what you say is so, but I am willing to say that no one can find a soul who will give first-hand knowledge corroborating any part of the rumor: If we can’t then — let the rumor die. Passing along false stories cannot result in any good and I judge this story to be 100% false. Alma listed “babbling” as a sin (NC Alma 1:6) To the extent that we pass along false stories we are guilty of the same.
Thanks for the post Rock. I plan on a move in a few months (after the Fed trashes the economy and right before (hopefully) they implement the CBDC). If there were a map of people who were starting to "gather" that I could consult, I'd factor that into my land/home search. I'd welcome the opportunity to be in/near/part of a community that shared my beliefs.
Although, if Pimm and Alpinealan were there, I might adjust accordingly - they seem to be wound pretty tight. (it's a joke)
Thanks for the sage advice, Captain Obvious. Ya think this advice would have been much better had you convinced your narcissistic blogger friend here to squelch the story when you first talked to him? Or are you entirely blameless in this fiasco?
Bad jokes seem to abound...
The point of the post wasn't to gossip. It was to tell a humorous cautionary tale about believing and passing along gossip. To the extent that Rock violated his own intent here, he should have left off the tidbits about Lemhi County, $40 million, and Provo. The Remnant world is too small and allows to too much deduction.
I certainly don't think it's worth fighting over and to the extend that people do argue, they are bring a microscope to the mistake in ways that are making it worse.
I gather there are things afoot that have moved beyond the speculation and discussion phase. I trust that when it's time for me to know, I'll learn about it through horses mouths.
I also hope that the Mount Pleasant rumor is true because I won't have to move far. The end.
I'll consider myself voted off the island. ;)
I do declare, Pimm, I'm at a loss as to why you remain so het up about this. You continue to insist I've written a smear piece, yet you haven't explained who I smeared! As Peter Brown affirms above, all I did was write "a humorous [thanks, Peter; glad to hear SOMEBODY got it!] cautionary tale about believing and passing along gossip."
I don't know how you conclude I've smeared anybody, seeing as how I didn't mention any names. And as rumors tend to spread, I'm guessing it was a whole passel of people who passed the rumor on, so the details changed and adapted like a game of Chinese telephone. So why in heck do you have a bee in your bonnet over this? I'm guessing you may have been one of the people who shared the information and now you're embarrassed about it. But so what? Now you know it's false, and so does everybody else, and "Stan" can be secure in the knowledge that people will soon no longer be attaching his name to something he most definitely is not a part of.
Again, I'm pretty sure an impartial person would believe I had a hand in SQUELCHING this rumor, not promote it. But I guess ther's no convincing you of that. I hope one day you can calm down about this. Instead of investing so much fury into this non-story, I hope you can find something else to focus on. Why not try becoming a narcissist and thinking only about yourself for a change? It works for me.
(P.S. I think you're parsing that word wrong. The way I heard it, when you "Assume" you make an ass out of Uma Thurman.)
"You should be embarrassed at how poorly you have handled this situation. In my curiosity to confirm rumors, I spread this to a few. You blasted it out to the world."
First of all, I have no idea who you are, since you are using a nom de plume. Nor did I believe that you, whoever you are, were the only person who was spreading the rumor. As you say, you spread it to a few, but apparently that few soon grew to become many. My wife heard it from someone very close to us. We love her and were not offended when she shared it; we understand it's human nature to want to discuss such things. But besides her, I very quickly heard from others asking if I knew anything about this land purchase. So regardless of how few people you spread it to, it apparently already had legs, so I'm guessing it was already traveling through the ether, and from what you say, some folks apparently spread the rumor before you did.
I don't think anyone meant any ill by this; this is just how gossip works: someone hears something and tells someone they trust not to repeat it then that person tells someone they trust, and the next person tells someone they trust, and eventually it gets everywhere. I know; I used to entrust "secrets" to people myself that eventually got back to me, often perverted from the initial telling. That's why I finally learned to keep confidences. Nowadays if someone tells me something in confidence, I don't even tell my own wife. The news stops with me.
So it's futile to attribute blame to any one person, especially as the information changes with the growing. This one certainly grew quickly. In some instances the story was about a purchase of land for Zion, in others it was about land for the temple. In nearly every one, the area was uncertain, entailing land in Lemhi, or somewhere else in Idaho, or even somewhere else. What most of the stories had in common was that the source of funding was a particular doctor, and sometimes involved Denver Snuffer, as rumors often do these days. But then, Denver is used to being the subject of unfounded rumors. He doesn't even try to keep track.
Did I blast this story out to the world? No, it was already out. In several iterations the person who was said to be the financier was this person I knew. So when I asked his feelings about it he said, "I hate having my name part of a rumor that is 100% false."
I don't know how you conclude that I've embarrassed you, since I did not single you out as the one guilty party. Neither do I consider you now to be voted off the island. It may be that you've been left red-faced by the handful of people you confided the story in, I don't know. But I would hope those were close enough friends of yours that they've simply shrugged it off as not a big deal. Because it is NOT a big deal, certainly nowhere near as big a deal as you and Primm apparently think. Nor do I see any reason for you to vote yourself off the island. You are welcome to comment here, and I hope you weigh in in the future. Maybe someday you and I will meet in person so I can tease you about this as I've been teasing Primm.
Time to relax, I say. Take a breath. Gossip is a common behavior that most of us have engaged in lots of times (goodness knows I have, over and over). But I don't think anybody's going to hell over this one.
So here's the thing: I have a public forum that is read by most of the people who would have heard that rumor, so I decided to use that forum in hopes of maybe putting that rumor to bed. If you consider by posting a correction I was "blasting it out to the world," then you and I disagree. But that's okay. I'm not offended. And I hope you will not be, either.
How sad that offense was taken when none was intended. Thank you Rock, for sharing your thoughts. I too had heard the rumor...and fault no one for it. It happens, and we move on, perhaps learning a great lesson from the experience. The lessons I learned from this? Blame is useless...love is not. Be kind, don't find fault or accuse, and most of all, have joy in the experience. Again, thank you, Rock. You are a good man!
Thank you JJ.
There is never a need for name calling or demeaning words. It proves nothing and persuades no one.
Thank you, JJKramble!
"Fault no one for it. It happens, and we move on."
Very nicely put.
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