Amber Rose is someone I would probably describe as -to put it nicely- "not exactly my type." She has been known to embrace the kind of lifestyle I have always been opposed to. She is a self-described "model" (whatever that means these days) who was famously associated with the L.A. "Slut Walk," and has held the usual slate of left-wing views, once offering her opinion that Jesus was a cult leader who, "you know, had some good lessons along the way."
And, oh yeah: there's that glaring face tattoo. Right on her forehead in permanent ink are tattooed the words "Bash" and "Slash."
As it turns out, she didn't have those tattoos inscribed front and center in order to warn away attackers. No, Bash and Slash just happen to be the names she gave her two little boys, and she's right proud of her children. So Amber Rose might not normally be the type of person you would expect me to write an admiring tribute about. But here I am, and that's what I'm about to do.
If You Will Allow Me A Brief Digression
I remained single until I was 28 years old and was rarely serious about who I dated in my younger years, since I wasn't planning to get married until I had launched my career as an actor. (A "launch" that never made it off the launch pad, by the way.)
The church was the center of my social life, so during high school I dated mostly LDS girls I would meet at the Anaheim stake dances, and after high school the girls were typically ones I met at Anaheim regional dances through the church's Young Adult Program geared for single members between the ages of 18 to 24. By the time I was 26 I had moved to Provo, and in January 1977 I drove down to Arizona where I had been cast in a very small role for a TV movie. I had one measley line, and even that was cut from the script once I arrived on set. Still, I was allowed to stay and appear in some scenes as an uncredited extra for a lot less pay. After filming wrapped a week later, I decided to return to Anaheim for a short visit with my parents, which turned into a much longer visit after I loaned my car to my little brother, who promptly drove it into the side of a mountain.
So for the next couple of months I remained in Anaheim waiting for my car to be repaired before I could return home to Provo where I was still paying rent on a townhouse. While in Anaheim I still wanted a church social life, but at 26 I had aged out of Young Adults and graduated into what was then called "Young Special Interests" (for single members ages 25 to 30+). Some of the Mormon girls I met in that auxillary program had already been married and divorced, often with children, so I was dating my share of single moms.
Now, what you get to understand is that in the 1960s and '70s, divorce was still relatively rare among members of the LDS faith, and many otherwise fine members associated a stigma to divorced women, especially divorced women with children. I actually had a divorced friend named Linda who moved to Provo in 1973 and found that none of the other mothers in her apartment complex would let their children play with her four-year-old daughter for no other reason than that the child's mother was an attractive divorcee, which somehow made the child anathema.
Back then I never cared if a woman was divorced with kids; I didn't cotton to that kind of silly prejudice. Besides, I wasn't looking for a serious relationship anyway. I attended the YSI dances mostly just to hang out with single Mormons my age and take advantage of the free refreshments, so it didn't bother me one bit if some of the the girls I met at those dances had kids or not.
But I will tell you this: if the local bishop had tried to set me up with a recent convert who used to be a left-wing whacko and had her children's names tattooed on her forehead...well, for me that would have been a dealbreaker -not because she was toting around a couple of tykes, mind you, but because I wouldn't want anybody to spot me dating a chick with a face tattoo. Might as well have had a bone in her nose.
If You Will Allow Me A Brief Digression
I remained single until I was 28 years old and was rarely serious about who I dated in my younger years, since I wasn't planning to get married until I had launched my career as an actor. (A "launch" that never made it off the launch pad, by the way.)
The church was the center of my social life, so during high school I dated mostly LDS girls I would meet at the Anaheim stake dances, and after high school the girls were typically ones I met at Anaheim regional dances through the church's Young Adult Program geared for single members between the ages of 18 to 24. By the time I was 26 I had moved to Provo, and in January 1977 I drove down to Arizona where I had been cast in a very small role for a TV movie. I had one measley line, and even that was cut from the script once I arrived on set. Still, I was allowed to stay and appear in some scenes as an uncredited extra for a lot less pay. After filming wrapped a week later, I decided to return to Anaheim for a short visit with my parents, which turned into a much longer visit after I loaned my car to my little brother, who promptly drove it into the side of a mountain.
So for the next couple of months I remained in Anaheim waiting for my car to be repaired before I could return home to Provo where I was still paying rent on a townhouse. While in Anaheim I still wanted a church social life, but at 26 I had aged out of Young Adults and graduated into what was then called "Young Special Interests" (for single members ages 25 to 30+). Some of the Mormon girls I met in that auxillary program had already been married and divorced, often with children, so I was dating my share of single moms.
Now, what you get to understand is that in the 1960s and '70s, divorce was still relatively rare among members of the LDS faith, and many otherwise fine members associated a stigma to divorced women, especially divorced women with children. I actually had a divorced friend named Linda who moved to Provo in 1973 and found that none of the other mothers in her apartment complex would let their children play with her four-year-old daughter for no other reason than that the child's mother was an attractive divorcee, which somehow made the child anathema.
Back then I never cared if a woman was divorced with kids; I didn't cotton to that kind of silly prejudice. Besides, I wasn't looking for a serious relationship anyway. I attended the YSI dances mostly just to hang out with single Mormons my age and take advantage of the free refreshments, so it didn't bother me one bit if some of the the girls I met at those dances had kids or not.
But I will tell you this: if the local bishop had tried to set me up with a recent convert who used to be a left-wing whacko and had her children's names tattooed on her forehead...well, for me that would have been a dealbreaker -not because she was toting around a couple of tykes, mind you, but because I wouldn't want anybody to spot me dating a chick with a face tattoo. Might as well have had a bone in her nose.
So, I may not have been a bigot in those days, but I was extremely shallow. I like to think I'm not like that anymore, though, which brings me to the point of my story.
Matt, The 'What Is A Woman?' Man
I am a great admirer of podcaster Matt Walsh. He's a committed Christian conservative and very smart, with a delightfully dry sense of humor. So imagine my disappointment to learn Matt was close to apoplectic about Amber Rose being permitted to speak at the recent Republican National Conference. Here is what Matt tweeted about that appearance:
"The RNC gives a primetime speaking slot to a pro-abortion feminist and self-proclaimed slut with a face tattoo whose only claim to fame is having sex with rappers. Truly an embarrassment. Not a single voter will be mobilized by this person."
After Matt received a lot of push-back from a good many fellow conservatives, he doubled-down with another, slightly longer tirade which brought him even more push-back from his own fans, as well as encouragement from some who agreed with him. You can find that thread here.
Please watch this video of Amber's speech at the RNC, then tell me if you see anything in it to be offended by. It's only five minutes long:By opposing Amber's invitation to speak at the RNC, Matt has just flunked Christianity 101. He failed to extend charity to someone he feels is not far enough along the path of redemption to suit him.
Just think about this: pretty much the only thing Amber did was admit she had been lied to, and then publicly repented for having believed those lies. For that she has already been mercilessly attacked by her former friends on the left. And now for some crazy reason a prominent conservative is attacking her? For what?
More important than Amber's endorsement of Donald Trump is that she confessed that she had been wrong about the millions of fellow Americans she had erroneously believed were her enemies. This is the sort of thing we Christians used to call an act of contrition. Had Matt Walsh seen past his own prejudice and simply listened to what Amber was saying, he would have recognized exactly what she was doing up on that podium: confessing and repenting. As Amber puts it,
"Now you may wonder why I'm up here telling you this. I'm no politician and I don't want to be. But I do care about the truth. And the truth is that the media has lied to us about Donald Trump. I know this because for a long time I believed those lies, so I'm here to set the record straight...The Left told me to hate Trump, and even worse, to hate the other side: the people who support him. When you cut through the lies, you realize the truth." [Emphasis mine.]
I think Officer Tatum has the best take on why Matt Walsh got it wrong. Matt made the same mistake a lot of conservatives make: he forgot that the Republican party is not supposed to be his religion. Here is how Tatum clarifies things:
"Some people have a problem with Amber Rose speaking at the Republican National Convention. Let me just put this in perspective: There is a difference between "Republican," "Conservative," and Christian." And I think a lot of people conflate all three of them together as, like, the trinity of politics. That's not the way it goes.
"If you say you're a Christian, you need to be abiding by Christian values in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and that's a closed unit. If you are a Conservative, that means you espouse conservative values. If you are a Republican, that means you are voting for a Republican; that's what being a Republican is.
"You can be a liberal and still vote republican and associate yourself with the Republican Party. You can be gay, lesbian, trans, gender identifying queer -or whatever they call themselves today- and still vote for Republicans and be a Republican. You can't do all that and be a Conservative because those aren't conservative values. And you cannot do those things and be Christian.
"I think that Amber Rose is a net positive. Even if she don't got it all figured out yet, even if she ain't a staunch Christian yet, I think that the values she brings is that the everyday person that don't typically, somebody that's in the industry, somebody that's got a lot to lose, come out and say, 'you know, I'm gonna vote for Trump,' it's very inspiring for people to have a broad brain that wasn't a conservative their whole life."
A Word About The Slut Walk
Two days ago, Amber Rose was a guest of Canace Owens' podcast, where Amber laments what she considers an unfair association with the L.A. Slut walk, since she was not the organizer of the event and she absolutely hated the name the organizers gave it.
In case you haven't heard about it, this thing called the "slut walk" originated in Toronto after a man was on trial for rape. According to Wikipedia, the judge in the case, Robert Dewar, described the defendant as a "clumsy Don Juan" who had the mistaken belief "sex was in the air" and a "heightened expectation" sex would occur. Dewar said the victim and a friend were dressed in tube tops and high heels when they met Rhodes and another man outside a bar "and made it publicly known that they wanted to party." The court in Winnipeg, Manitoba, heard that the victim had willingly gone off with Rhodes and kissed him. But after she rebuffed his further advances three times, he raped her by the side of the road once they were alone.
A month earlier, a Toronto police constable, addressing the issue of campus rape, said, "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized."
In case you haven't heard about it, this thing called the "slut walk" originated in Toronto after a man was on trial for rape. According to Wikipedia, the judge in the case, Robert Dewar, described the defendant as a "clumsy Don Juan" who had the mistaken belief "sex was in the air" and a "heightened expectation" sex would occur. Dewar said the victim and a friend were dressed in tube tops and high heels when they met Rhodes and another man outside a bar "and made it publicly known that they wanted to party." The court in Winnipeg, Manitoba, heard that the victim had willingly gone off with Rhodes and kissed him. But after she rebuffed his further advances three times, he raped her by the side of the road once they were alone.
A month earlier, a Toronto police constable, addressing the issue of campus rape, said, "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized."
Now that seems to me to be a rather obvious, if not innocuous observation. But it triggered a bunch of howling Wimmin on the left who insisted that a woman should be able to dress as slutty as she wants to without guys assuming they are looking for a good time. If I may editorialize here, that strikes me as the kind of stupidly ignorant thing you might hear from a woman who has never, ever encountered a man at any time in her life.
Anyway, all this hub-bub resulted in a crazy passel of gals deciding to get together in Toronto where they organized an outdoor event they called a "slut walk" where participants were encouraged to dress as provocatively as possible to "celebrate their inner whore," and that would somehow prove that women ought to be able dress like sluts without there being any possibility of arousing any men nearby. Similar Slut Walk events took place in the United States, and Amber Rose was a participant in the one that was put on in Los Angeles. She told Candace that she was alarmed at the ignorance of some of the women on display there and wished she could wrap a blanket around the half-naked bodies of some of these girls and help them get home safely.
I found this conversation between Amber and Candace quite interesting. At an hour and thirteen minutes it's a bit long, but I highly reccomend you watch it. I was surprised at how much I learned about Amber Rose during that conversation, as well as how much I learned about the background of Candace Owens herself and even Cardi B, who, I'm ashamed to admit, I had already written off as a lost cause.
Although Amber Rose was raised in a Christian home, she ultimately rejected Christianity -mostly, as it turns out, due to the behavior of a number of Christians she encountered over the years. I'm betting, like Candace, that it won't be long before Amber Rose accepts Christ completely. I have no doubt about that, as once the spirit of truth takes root in a person with an open mind, it continues to expand exponentially.
Although Amber Rose was raised in a Christian home, she ultimately rejected Christianity -mostly, as it turns out, due to the behavior of a number of Christians she encountered over the years. I'm betting, like Candace, that it won't be long before Amber Rose accepts Christ completely. I have no doubt about that, as once the spirit of truth takes root in a person with an open mind, it continues to expand exponentially.
Charity Is Everything
So what is our lesson here? I was encouraged at how accepting the audience at the RNC was to Amber's short speech, as was she herself as she describes the aftermath in her conversation with Cadace. Amber is much more famous than I ever realized, with over twenty-three million followers on Instagram. There is no doubt that her act of speaking out about how wrong she was will have an impact that is felt by untold numbers of young people whose only knowledge of Christians -especially conservative Christians- is completely erroneous. We should not underestimate the positive influence this one woman will have on countless others.
There is a reason the apostle Paul expended so much wordage explaining the importance of Charity in 1st Corinthians 13. Sadly, most of us don't fully understand what that word means. When we hear the word "charity" we usually think it has to do with giving money to the needy. Certainly that is one aspect of charity, but it's not the only one.
When I seek an accurate definition of a word found in scripture, I always look to Noah Webster's 1828 edition of the dictionary. Under Charity Webster provides us with eight clarifying definitions, the first being "in a general sense, love, benevolence, good will; that disposition of heart which inclines men to think favorably of their fellow man, and to do them good."
I was very happy to see that the crowd at the RNC extended massive amounts of genuine charity towards a speaker who most knew was not known to be "one of them."
There is a reason the apostle Paul expended so much wordage explaining the importance of Charity in 1st Corinthians 13. Sadly, most of us don't fully understand what that word means. When we hear the word "charity" we usually think it has to do with giving money to the needy. Certainly that is one aspect of charity, but it's not the only one.
When I seek an accurate definition of a word found in scripture, I always look to Noah Webster's 1828 edition of the dictionary. Under Charity Webster provides us with eight clarifying definitions, the first being "in a general sense, love, benevolence, good will; that disposition of heart which inclines men to think favorably of their fellow man, and to do them good."
I was very happy to see that the crowd at the RNC extended massive amounts of genuine charity towards a speaker who most knew was not known to be "one of them."
Note that in addition to other dictionary meanings, having charity towards another means to extend sincere good will. Another word Webster uses to define charity is kindness, and that is the meaning I think best describes the need to extend charity to one another while on this earth: to cultivate an attitude of kindness toward everyone we meet, regardless of where they are on their path in life.
How important is this quality? Paul tells us that if we don't have charity we are nothing. The prophets Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni said the same, so it's worth noting that they didn't teach that without charity we have nothing; they said without charity we are nothing. It seems to me, then, that an attitude of charity, of kindness and goodwill toward others, is the most important character trait any of us can develop in the short time we have on this planet. Nothing else comes close. Certainly I would not want to face the Lord at the judgment day and admit I never gave any thought to this most important of qualities.
How To Create A Zion Community
During the last twelve weeks of his life, Joseph Smith was intensely focused on launching what he called the Kingdom of God on Earth. One of the most misunderstood teachings in the LDS church today is the common fallacy that the LDS Church as it stands today is that self-same kingdom of God. Joseph made it abundantly clear that the Kingdom was to be distinctly different from the church; there was no comparing the two. The Kingdom of God, as envisioned by the prophet, would effectively leave the Church in the dust, that's how different they are from each other. The Kingdom was to exist independent of the Church, and include people who were not, and probably never would become "Mormons."
How important is this quality? Paul tells us that if we don't have charity we are nothing. The prophets Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni said the same, so it's worth noting that they didn't teach that without charity we have nothing; they said without charity we are nothing. It seems to me, then, that an attitude of charity, of kindness and goodwill toward others, is the most important character trait any of us can develop in the short time we have on this planet. Nothing else comes close. Certainly I would not want to face the Lord at the judgment day and admit I never gave any thought to this most important of qualities.
How To Create A Zion Community
During the last twelve weeks of his life, Joseph Smith was intensely focused on launching what he called the Kingdom of God on Earth. One of the most misunderstood teachings in the LDS church today is the common fallacy that the LDS Church as it stands today is that self-same kingdom of God. Joseph made it abundantly clear that the Kingdom was to be distinctly different from the church; there was no comparing the two. The Kingdom of God, as envisioned by the prophet, would effectively leave the Church in the dust, that's how different they are from each other. The Kingdom was to exist independent of the Church, and include people who were not, and probably never would become "Mormons."
The prophet's vision of the Kingdom of God on earth is still attainable, and I believe that in these last days we will see it develop. But before the Kingdom can exist, we have to learn to live in Zion communities, and we can start anywhere; right where you live right now will work.
I have often described a Zion community as similar to a group of neighbors who live in a cul-de-sac. Picture most of the people in these homes as typical Mormon families who know and love each other and share essentially the same set of values. They look after one another. Now picture one of these neighbors as a long-haired, tatooed biker-type who smokes like a fiend and likes to chug down a six-pack at the end of the day. He has probably never attended any church, maybe doesn't even believe in God. In short, he has nothing in common with his neighbors except his humanity, and on that score he eagerly pitches in when a neighbor needs a helping hand and would give any of his neighbors the shirt off his back.
What makes that little neighborhood a Zion society is that the others accept our hairy, tatted-up friend for exactly who he is. He doesn't have to share their culture or their values in order to be their neighbor; no one requires him to "fit in."
Charity is the highest form of Love. We can't say we love our fellow man or woman if we are unwilling to extend charity to them, which I define here as allowing people the freedom to make their own mistakes while being ready to catch them when everything finally collapses in on them.
I have often described a Zion community as similar to a group of neighbors who live in a cul-de-sac. Picture most of the people in these homes as typical Mormon families who know and love each other and share essentially the same set of values. They look after one another. Now picture one of these neighbors as a long-haired, tatooed biker-type who smokes like a fiend and likes to chug down a six-pack at the end of the day. He has probably never attended any church, maybe doesn't even believe in God. In short, he has nothing in common with his neighbors except his humanity, and on that score he eagerly pitches in when a neighbor needs a helping hand and would give any of his neighbors the shirt off his back.
What makes that little neighborhood a Zion society is that the others accept our hairy, tatted-up friend for exactly who he is. He doesn't have to share their culture or their values in order to be their neighbor; no one requires him to "fit in."
Charity is the highest form of Love. We can't say we love our fellow man or woman if we are unwilling to extend charity to them, which I define here as allowing people the freedom to make their own mistakes while being ready to catch them when everything finally collapses in on them.
And you have to be able to do it without including any kind of "I-told-you-so."
We can boast all day about how we "love everybody," but that's just lip service. Charity is something we can't fake because it is either demonstrated in deed or it isn't. I believe our acts of charity are the method by which the angels gauge our commitment. Without charity our words mean nothing. We are nothing.
I love Amber Rose not just because I am commanded to, but because I can't help but love her. When someone with that much influence makes a major course correction in her life, it will trigger a change in countless others, both men and women, who had been lied into believing that happiness comes from licentious living. Brothers and sisters, I believe there is a huge cultural course correction on the horizon. Let's stand ready to assist when that tidal wave hits.
As the song says, "in the end, only kindness matters."
Links:
Amber Rose Speaks at the Republican National Convention
The Officer Tatum Show: Amber Rose Breaks Liberal Media With RNC Speech
The Officer Tatum Show: Amber Rose Breaks Liberal Media With RNC Speech
Notes & Asides:
This video is unrelated to the topic above, and I intend to discuss it further in the future, but I couldn't wait to show it to you. Don't miss it!
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ReplyDeleteAmen. If only Matt Walsh could read this post.
ReplyDeletePS. Have you written about meeting your bride? Would love to know more about that.
ReplyDeleteAmericanManStan,
ReplyDeleteI have thought about writing about how Connie and I met, but I don't think anyone would be interested. Will give it some thought for a future post, though.
Thanks for investing the time to research, listen to, watch, read, and write about Amber Rose. The few moments I took to read your post both enlightened and encouraged me. We could all be better for embracing charity and kindness in the way we see and judge others. I admit I never would have taken the time to consider the impact Amber Rose could have for good. Now I'm considering watching the Candace Owens interview. Thanks, Rock. Well done.
ReplyDeleteI’m really not persuaded that “repenting” and public lip service/adoration of Donald Trump are the same thing. I must be reading different scriptures as you Rock.
ReplyDeleteThough I do sense a small shred of repentance in this post. The density of overwhelmingly condescending and unChristlike sweeping blanket judgements of generalized groups of people was notably less. Still quite a lot, but less.
Not that I matter, but this is a good direction you’re going here in my opinion!
Jay
Tim Malone,
ReplyDeleteI do hope you'll watch that Candace Owens interview. Really opened my eyes on several matters. One example: Rose's Only Fans account has been operating for two years without her knowledge or permission, with submissions ghosted by unauthorized sources who pretended to be Amber Rose and writing in Amber's "voice." Truly despicable!
I do believe every one deserves a second chance.
ReplyDeletefull stack course in chennai
ReplyDeleteHey Rock, do you remember Craig Taylor,(your friend Randi Crabtree's boyfriend back in the Anaheim college days? You stayed w me and Mike Beldon in Provo a bit. You joked about me looking like R Redford. Just trying to jar your memory. Please reach out, I am still active LDS but on same page with you on most your revolutionary blog sphere fame. Let's catch up! Let me know you saw this please . Proud of you brother. Loved this vintage Rock write up.
Craig - craigtaylornotes@gmail.com
In Clyde Edgerton’s humorous novel, “Walking Across Egypt” we meet Mattie Rigsbee, an independent, strong-minded southern woman who, at seventy-eight, might be slowing down just a bit. She notes that she has as much business keeping a stray dog as she would walking across Egypt. In the local handyman’s juvenile delinquent nephew, Wesley Benfield, she discovers someone even less likely to be a companion than a stray dog. Her belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ, however, prompts her to wonder if there’s anything she might do to help him out.
ReplyDeleteAll through the novel, despite his rotten teeth, greasy hair and body odor, Mattie refers to young Wesley not as human trash, but as “one of the least of these my brethren,” like Jesus does in the Bible. Why would Jesus say such an odd thing and what would prompt Mattie Rigsbee to consider acting on it? Should we be acting on it? A great post, Rock.
Craig Taylor,
ReplyDeleteI do indeed remember you, Craig! Thanks for including your email address, I'll be messaging you shortly. SO great to hear from you after more than half a century!
Also I have often wondered what happened to Randi Crabtree. I was in touch with DeeAnn Mcnear awhile back, She and Becky Graham and Randi were the best of buds back in our institute days.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteUnlike the way Mattie did, I don't think Jesus would have referred to those less fortunate as "the least of these" to their faces! Just goes to show that any time you use a phrase that might be taken wrong, there's often somebody ever ready to write down what you said!
True that, Rock. And in the case of a god teaching the way of the gods, things are going to sound bizarre from the get-go. Isaiah 57:7—9 alerts us to the way of Jesus Christ having an odd ring to our telestial ears. You claiming to love Amber Rose marks you either as a sputtering old fool or a humble follower of Jesus Christ who takes Him at his word. To more love. Tell Connie hello.
ReplyDeleteKevin,
ReplyDeleteI think the case can be made that I'm both follower of Jesus Christ AND a sputtering old fool.
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ReplyDeleteGREAT post, Dad! Gave me goosebumps listening to Amber's speech, she's a Daddy's Girl through and through and sounds like she's got a great dad.
ReplyDeleteCall me biased, but I stand by my certainty that no dad is better than mine. You have a spirit so full of compassion and mercy, and you strive to share that with others. That's what makes you the best AND super duper!!
Hey, one of my own children reads my blog! Will wonders never cease?
DeleteYou may be on to something there, Rock. In "As You Like It", Shakespeare’s character Touchstone observes, “The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.” I can just hear RFM saying that line with a twinkle in his eye.
ReplyDeleteThe Apostle Paul makes a similar case for fools and challenges seemingly wise folk to become fools because their worldly wisdom is foolish before God:
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: He takes the wise in their own craftiness. And again: The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore, let no man glory in men; for all things are yours, whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come — all are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. (1 Corinthians 1:13 RE)
Great that she realized Trump "isn't as bad as the media said". However, if Christians actually were interested in spreading Christ's message they wouldn't be overwhelmingly voting for a man who is mammon incarnate. What exactly is "conservative" about Trump anyways and why are these supposedly conservative values compatible with the gospel? All I see here in Utah is a bunch of mormons who worship trump even more than they worship the brethren, and by their bad examples drive people from the truth. This is the sin next to murder that Alma talks about not having sex as is popularly believed. You commit spiritual murder by keeping people from the truth by your bad actions this is the second great sin after physical murder. On that point too one of the supposed "conservative christian values" is banning abortion because it is supposedly murder, yet no where in scripture is abortion = to murder. In Genesis/Moses god creates man aka the first human by first creating a physical body and then breathing into it its spirit and then it becomes a living being. Moses 3:7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word. So the real person is the spirit which is eternal and then it becomes a living soul in a mortal probation when placed within the vessel of an earthly body. Abortion is simply destroying a not yet fully formed earthly body. This one great error of christians is one of the leading causes of people turning away from Christianity in my opinion. People see the hypocrisy of Christians caring about "preserving life" by forcing women who have been raped, abused, abandoned, etc to have a child they are unable to provide for mentally, emotionally, or physically. Who are all you to judge the circumstances of that woman? Why are you all casting the first stone? How about instead of caring about potential life you take care of the already existing life by caring for the poor and the sick and afflicted. Neither party is christian, but in my view, and I would say the majority view of Americans the republican party is an abhorrent distortion of christianity that drives people from faith whereas the democrats are the out of touch bureaucrat class that at least is doing what it thinks is best. Thus, the intentions of the latter will be judged less harshly than the party claiming to be god's party.
ReplyDeleteSaul,
ReplyDeleteWhile you may be right that the scriptures don't "equate" abortion with murder, you seem to overlook the fact that the scriptures clearly show abortion to be FAR WORSE than murder, as demonstrated by how thoroughly God poured out his wrath on cities that celebrated the killing of unborn babies on this continent anciently.
You may want to take a closer look at what the scripures actually teach regarding this abomination, while reminding yourself of the salient reason we were given the Book of Mormon in modern times: as a warning of what will befall us if we engage in the same wicked practices as did the ancients:
https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2023/10/abortion-and-book-of-mormon.html
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DeleteI don't know how many times I have to remind readers that this blog does not allow anonymous comments.
ReplyDeleteI assumed if I replied with my comment from the other article that wasn’t anonymous. Or maybe you simply don’t want to consider that your view is wrong. I’ll simply end by saying repent all of you who vote for trump or think that you’re morally superior than all the people who can’t live up to your hypocritical and false morals before it’s too late. I pray that you all see the error of your ways.
ReplyDeleteI have no qualms about being accused of holding "wrong" views, Saul, as long as my accusers don't label themselves as "Anonymous." I'm happy to absorb your slings and arrows, so fire away, my friend!
Delete(By the way, Saul, I haven't seen any comments by anyone on this thread positing any kind of moral superiority regarding who they intend to vote for, so which of my readers are you aiming your rebuke towards?)
It's a time where everyone needs to question the culture and traditions/dogmas they have inherited and ask God to lead them to the truth wherever that is. I have seen too many mormons claim trump is some sort of messiah figure, and that the republican party is god's party that it disturbs me deeply. And I have been compelled by the spirit to warn people to wake up before it's too late.
DeleteOkay, so you've heard "too many Mormons claim trump is some sort of Messiah figure and that the Republican party is God's party."
DeleteWell, I highly doubt that. But judging from some of your comments so far, I'm not surprised that you THINK you hear that kind of nonsense on a daily basis. I like to think I have a finger on the political pulse of the LDS community, and I have NEVER heard anyone suggest that Trump is a Messiah figure or that the Republican party is "God's party." Do you know how ridiculous you sound spouting such nonsense? NO political party is "God's party" and I'm highly dubious you would hear a sensible latter-day Saint posit such a view.
You seem to have been deeply disturbed by things that have somehow been stirred up in your own imagination, Saul. I don't know anyone, Mormon or non-Mormon who actually believes Trump will have the magic wand to enter into office and put everything right again; none of that is in the power of the president; he is not the country's emperor. But an incoming president CAN put a halt to some of the mischief his predecessor may have introduced, so in that respect the incoming president can see to it that some policies harmful to the country can be halted and not continue to worsen. But a Messiah figure? Come on, man, read your constitution.
But never mind that. What I wonder about is why are you compelled to use this forum as your personal soapbox to refute ideas that no one in this comment section presented so far? Which particular commenter on this thread are you hoping to "wake up before it's too late"?
If you find something in a comment here that you find offensive, then by all means, you are welcome to present a counter-argument. But in the twenty-odd comments submitted on this thread so far, I haven't seen anyone announce his or her conviction that Donald Trump is a Messiah figure or that the Republican Party is "God's party." I don't insist that everyone commenting remain on-point; anyone is welcome to go off on a tangent. But gee whiz, fella! Try and stick somewhat close to the topic under discussion, will ya?
Rock, have you counted up the quantity of stones and slings you fire off in every post? Hey fair play it’s just words fire away, but accusing Saul of doing that as if HE is somehow missing the mark when HE does it?!…hrmmm what’s the word for that?
DeleteYou’re better than this
Jay
Call me dense, Jay, but I'm having trouble seeing your point.
DeleteMy criticism of Saul is that he keeps hammering away against arguments that no one has made in this forum. I don't care if he bashes people he disagrees with, but who exactly is he disagreeing with in this forum? His hot button issue is people he seems to believe hold up Donald Trump as a Messiah figure and who he says believe God belongs to the Republican party. Okay, fine, Saul. Fire away at those people (whoever they are), but at least give me a hint as to why you've chosen this forum for your inexplicable ranting? Is Saul responding to someone who weighed in on this forum? If so, I must have missed those comments.
Yes, I fire off stones and slings in my posts, but I expect people to respond either to something I have actually said in those posts, or to what others have written in the comments.
I think Saul should get a Facebook or Twitter account of his own and shout into the wind there. Because unless he is addressing a specific argument voiced on this forum or responding to a specific person or persons who have ignited his fury, I simply wonder why he has chosen my blog out of the blue as a platform to voice his displeasure against...well, I don't really know what.
So, what am I missing here, Jay? Whose argument is Saul addressing?
Rock,
Delete“Ignited his fury” has a probability of being a self projection on your part of like >99% in my estimation. I didn’t get fury from anything he wrote. At all. There isn’t a spirit of fury in it. I have gotten fury from basically all your posts (including this one) and responses to almost everyone for the last several years. What’s happened? You seem so different. The spirit of your posts and your responses to people isn’t the same as when I discovered this blog back in the day, when it was marvelous.
I’m not your judge and I’m nobody and you absolutely can totally ignore me and are perfectly justified in doing so, but I’m just pointing out what I’ve been feeling and seeing on your blog. It makes me deeply sad. I’ve come to greatly love you since discovering your blog. I still do. That’s why it makes me so sad to read this stuff. It’s all so negative and condescending and angry. I mean good Lord your covid stuff is basically unreadable, whether it’s true or not. Talk about fury.
Oh, and if you want to understand what Saul is actually responding to with his Trump/republican comments, just read your own blog posts over the last couple years. And perhaps do it with the consideration that communication isn’t simply words. Words are animated by specific spirits. The spirit that animates words is something people can feel and discern and often respond to as much to that as they do the actual words. Words only matter insomuch they align with the heart right? Those Pharisees had some awesome words I bet.
I understand many people would bring the heat to me with this description of words and spirits and say I’m crazy, but it’s all over the scriptures and has been greatly clarified in very very recent revelations.
When I said you’re better than this, I meant it. Just doesn’t and hasn’t felt like the Rock I thought I knew. I hope to God I’m wrong though…
Maybe with this response you can better “see” my point and judge for yourself where my motivations are coming from.
Crap forgot to sign my name. The above comment is Jay.
DeleteJay
Well Jay, now I'm more confused than ever. Though I agree with you that communication isn't simply words, it would help me understand what you're trying to say if you would try communicating in a cogent manner with words that I can decipher, since that's the only medium you and I have to communicate with at the moment. I can't even understand the non-verbal communications of my own wife of 44 years, so you can imagine how I'm struggling to try and figure out the message you're trying to communicate above.
DeleteSo now suddenly there's TWO readers I don't understand what the heck they're talking about (unless maybe Saul and Jay are the same guy). Anyway, thanks for your attempt at clearing things up. You made a noble effort. I think I'll go take a nap now.
Rock,
DeleteI think you figured it out. We’re the problem
How glorious it is to have a glimpse into the thoughts and feelings of someone who is politically and socially my opposite. I love to find out about why individuals choose to take the "side" they've chosen. I was pleasantly surprised by Amber Rose's RNC video. She seems much more level-headed than many of her celebrity peers.
ReplyDeleteAnd I loved the Jeremy Hoop video. It was a game changer for me, who was beginning to feel jaded with early church history. When I realized that the official history and certain journals had been "doctored" by the Q 12, I wept that I had been bamboozled. "Lying for the Lord"! Such nonsense.
Then I found Justin Griffin of "Who Killed Joseph Smith" and boy, I was suddenly proud to be a supporter. By the way, Justin mentions YOU, Rock Waterman, as a thought leader in presenting your views on polygamy.
This is a long-awaited blog post. I'm so glad that you've recovered your health enough to continue to challenge us all to do our own research, and not get bamboozled by "official narratives".
Great to hear from you, Linda! I myself was stunned and surprised when I heard Justin Griffin mention my name; I thought I had been all but forgotten. Glad you watched Jeremy Hoop's video; I hope others have clicked on that link as well. I CAN'T WAIT for the next one. And of course I'm going to have to discuss that series on this platform.
DeleteYES ! The series is wonderful, and you would be the perfect one to expand on what has been published.
DeleteI have just now discovered them. Some of the stuff is really mind-blowing when you realize just how much was "revised" in church history. I am simply floored by the skulduggery committed by higher ups in the church. Shocking is a fit adjective for what was done in the name of "the church". Yikes!
PS. When hubby and I were Provo residents, Jeremy was our home teacher. We never saw him as he was busy filming The Testament and other projects, but he was officially our home teacher. hehe
DeleteCool! You had a famous home teacher! (So famous you never saw him.)
DeleteThat he was super busy doesn't diminish him in our warm thoughts about him; he was testifying to a wider audience. I'm just so pleased that he has done so much research into "our" past.
Deleteonline quran classes from Best Quran Learning Website.
ReplyDeleteQuran classes? How did THAT get in here?!
DeleteSorry Emilly. I only expect to live long enough to learn a little Hebrew, if that.