Sunday, October 23, 2016

I Decide To Become A Prophet

I just call 'em as I see 'em, Dude.
Previously: Botching Zion

I'm prepared to make a bold prophecy regarding the presidential election next month: I predict Donald Trump will win.

I realize this fatidic pronouncement goes against all the conventional wisdom, but I believe Trump will triumph. And this is coming from a guy who doesn't want to see Donald Trump become president of the united states.

I don't want Hillary Clinton to be president either, in case you're wondering. (For my reasons, see these earlier posts: How Mormons Should Think About The Presidential Election. and Our Long National Nightmare Continues.)

So why am I issuing this prophecy? Frankly, I had every intention of addressing a more substantial issue this month, but I'm putting that one on the back burner for now because I want to get this prediction on the record in order to confound my enemies.

You see, it has come to my attention that some members of the Church have been warned not to follow me because "Rock Waterman is a false prophet."

That's ridiculous on two fronts: First, anyone dumb enough to "follow" me or look to me as some kind of guru is a dang fool to begin with. As those familiar with this blog can confirm, the history of my life has been one mistaken assumption after another. I expect to goof up many more times in the few years I have left on this planet, so if you're inclined to grab onto me as I trip and fall, be my guest. Company is always welcome here in the ditch.

Secondly, I never claimed to be a prophet. I have never so much as entertained the idea of issuing a prophecy of any kind.

Until now.

If my prophecy turns out to be correct and Trump wins, my accusers will verily be confounded, because as of today all the pundits expect Hillary Clinton to win handily. If my prophecy turns out to be false? Well, then I guess I'll have to go off and start my own church, because that's what's expected of us false prophet types.

But I don't think I'm wrong. And here's why.

Hillary Clinton's Support Is Mostly Wind
Now I want to make one thing clear: I don't have a dog in this fight. So whether you favor Trump or Clinton in this race, don't climb all over me because I'm critical of your candidate.  I think both candidates are unfit for the presidency, and I've already given my reasons for saying so.  But allow me to recap.

My politics are filtered through my religion, and my religion dictates that I seek for good and honest candidates who honor the constitution.  To uphold any candidate with less than these simple qualifications, according to my religion, would constitute upholding evil. (D&C 98:10)

The problem with the leading contenders in this race is that neither one is good, and neither one is particularly honest (Especially that one with the maniacal laugh.)

Hillary Clinton has become famous for lack of integrity, and she has no respect whatsoever for the constitution. Trump is head and shoulders above Clinton in the honesty department, but only because Hillary placed the bar so low.  Trump still has his share of moral failings. But his are nowhere near the failings of Hillary Clinton, who is a flaming sociopath without a trace of conscience.  So take your pick: the criminal or the half-wit.

Trump's Achilles heel where the constitution is concerned is that he seems never to have read it. He has no blinking idea what's contained in that document. So this is a race between the egregiously corrupt and the woefully uninformed. I don't have a lot of integrity myself, but what little I have I save up every four years to spend on election day. As a matter of principle I can't vote for either one of them.

But none of that has anything to do with my assertion that Hillary will lose this thing. I'm convinced she will lose because she can't get a sufficient number of people to support her. Ignore the constant poll numbers that show her ahead; they don't reflect the reality on the ground. While Donald Trump is filling stadiums with cheering supporters, Hillary Clinton's people have had trouble getting a few hundred people to show up sometimes. Her rallies are held in small auditoriums precisely because if Hillary's people had booked larger venues the vast numbers of empty seats would be an embarrassment.  In some cases Mrs. Clinton had to resort to subterfuge to fake the turnout.  In Cleveland she crashed a party already in progress so it would look like the crowd had come to see her.

Various Clinton campaign headquarters have had trouble getting volunteers to show up to help "get out the vote" even when events are highly publicized. It's very quiet in some of those campaign offices. All this leads me to believe that the conventional wisdom that says Hillary has this thing in the bag is just so much noise.  There doesn't seem to be any substance behind it.  If all the Hillary supporters show up to the voting booth and all the Trump supporters show up as well, I think the Trump supporters will trounce in numbers alone.  Trump could win, provided the race isn't tight in the swing states. (Because don't forget: voters don't elect the president, delegates do.)

So Who Is Rock Waterman Voting For?
Seeing as I am the leader of millions of devoted followers awaiting my instructions come November 8th, the question naturally arises, "What would Rock Waterman have me do?"*
*In case you're new here, I'm kidding. Those familiar with this blog know I have a healthy aversion to so-called "leaders" and very little respect for those who follow them. Teachers are good; leaders not so much. God did not put you on this earth to have someone else tell you what to do. 

If you're asking who I'm voting for this time out, well, the options don't look very good. My first presidential election was in 1972, when Nixon ran against McGovern. (Back then you had to be 21 to vote.) I was a conservative, so I couldn't vote for Nixon. I voted instead for Mary Kay LeTourneau's dad.

1.1 million of us voted for John Schmitz that year, a phenomenal number for a third party candidate. Yet we were rebuked by our fellow conservatives for throwing away our votes. We didn't see it that way. After all, Nixon did win. But the man turned out to be completely unprincipled, so the way I saw it, those who voted for him were the ones actually throwing away their votes. They gave their votes to a candidate whose values were inimical to theirs.  They had bought into the lies of a politician, as voters have been doing since the dawn of time.

This year I was planning to vote for the Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. But he turns out to be not much of a libertarian after all. So what to do?

Mormonism is a decidedly libertarian religion -at least it was in the beginning.  And I don't mean libertarian as in the Libertarian Party.  Libertarianism was a political philosophy two centuries before it was a party. It was just called something else back then.

Joseph Smith and the early Saints would have been thought of as liberals, but that was long before the definition of "liberal" was stood on its head. In modern times we have to qualify the liberalism of the 19th century by calling it "classical liberalism" to distinguish it from the aberration that goes by that label today.  Classical liberalism places the freedom of the individual as its central feature. We often think of Thomas Jefferson as the pre-eminent classical liberal, as that brand of liberalism was the political philosophy that guided the founders of this nation, as well as the founder of our church. Sadly, there is no classical liberal running for president this time around.

At this stage I'd settle for a conservative, but there are no conservatives running for president either.

What About Evan McMullin?
Evan McMullin is a Mormon third party candidate who has culled a lot of support in Utah. But I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. McMullin strikes me as a modern-day Gadianton Robber, the kind of sneak-thief the Book of Mormon warned would infiltrate our institutions.  His background raises all kinds of red flags: former CIA, Former Republican Foreign Policy Director, and former Investment Banker at Goldman Sachs.

Justin Raimondo shines some light on the Evan McMullin most Mormons don't know:
"McMullin’s role at Goldman Sachs was in the investment banking division, where the underwriting of foreign government bonds and some pretty dicey financial shenanigans occur mostly in the dark...He is the archetypal neoconservative: a full-bore interventionist, who is clearly making foreign policy the centerpiece of his campaign...In a speech he declared that the US role is to police the world in order to stop “genocide.” 
"As a key player in the neocon wing of the CIA, which ginned up phony “intelligence” to drag us into the Iraq war, McMullin wants us to re-invade Iraq, overthrow Bashar al-Assad in Syria, and longs for a US confrontation with Russia in eastern Europe. 
"In short", Raimondo adds, Evan McMullin "is the archetypal neoconservative."

Evan McMullin's Supporters might want to read this book.
Which is to say he is a very bad latter-day Saint. If you want a candidate who claims to be LDS but wholly rejects the instructions God gave his people in D&C 98:33 and throughout the Book of Mormon; if you're looking for a wolf in sheep's clothing to run for president, you may as well support Evan McMullin. He makes Mitt Romney look like a constitutionist.

At least Romney wasn't seeking to infiltrate and destroy the Republican party; I think Mitt sincerely believed he could do some good. Had he become president, Romney would have operated contrary to the principles of the gospel, but I don't think he would have been as scorched-earth as McMullin promises to be. Mitt Romney was an unwitting pawn of the Neocons. Evan McMullin is the real deal.

The gutting of constitutional conservatism was initiated by the neocon puppet George Bush the younger. If McMullin were to attain the presidency, he and his friends would surely attempt to wipe out the remaining traces of traditional conservatism:
“Rule or ruin” has always been the operative strategic principle of the neoconservatives. If you go back into their history, their long rightward hegira didn’t begin in the Democratic party, but on the far left fringes of American politics – in the Trotskyist movement. (I wrote about this at length in my book, Reclaiming the American Right: The Lost Legacy of the Conservative Movement.) Their strategic vision has always been organized around the tactic of “entryism” – an old Trotskyist trick, in which they enter a larger body, infiltrate the leadership, and then either seize the reins of power or else destroy their unwilling host. (Justin Raimondo, "How The Neoconservatives Fight Dirty-Now Comes Evan McMullin to Trash Trump.")
If you reject Hillary Clinton, why turn around and support Evan McMullin?  If you want warmongering presidential candidates, one is as good as the other. As Marc Faber recently wrote, at least Donald Trump recognizes U.S. power is waning and it can't fight the whole world. Hillary Clinton and Evan McMullin are oblivious to that reality. They would commit America to multiple wars on multiple fronts, further weakening our nation and ripening us for destruction.

I will confess to one thing: although I will neither support nor vote for Donald Trump, I'm privately rooting for him to win. No, I don't want Donald Trump to be president. But I really, really REALLY don't want a proven liar and criminal like Hillary Clinton to hold that much power.  While it's true she'll likely be impeached during her first term, she could still do untold damage in the liminal weeks leading up to it. Donald Trump, in contrast, is not likely to do much harm. The president is not a king; he can be reined in by the legislature simply by the legislature refusing to provide the revenue for the president's plans.  Hillary, on the other hand, is slippery. She knows how to get what she wants, and she'll stop at nothing to get it.

I'll tell you another reason I hope Hillary loses (not counting the obvious corruption involved in her phony foundation): Those on Clinton's side are currently involved in "dirty tricks" campaigning. I'm not talking about the type of dirty trick that occurs when you slip a whoopee cushion under Grandma's bottom. I'm talking about real, black ops dirty tricks that have already sent people to the hospital and are likely to get someone killed.  Over five and a half million people have seen video of these dark operatives bragging about the underhanded things they're doing to help Hillary Clinton win, yet I still haven't seen any mention of it in the mainstream press:

Warning: some naughty language.

I realize I'm stepping on the sacred cows of some of my readers who may be Hillary Clinton fans. To them I say the same thing I would say to overly enthusiastic Trump supporters: take a step back, and don't be so emotionally involved.  Your candidate is not Our Lord and Savior.  Your Candidate will not be our new king or queen. Your candidate cannot and will not engender any meaningful change.

"Change" is the one constant promised by every presidential candidate every election cycle, yet change never comes. Except change for the worse.  No matter who your preferred candidate is, your crazy devotion toward that candidate is costing you your friends. Choose your battles. This one is not worth fighting.

Everyone knows Donald Trump's flaws. They are many, and they are constantly before our eyes.  But I'm surprised at how unaware many Clinton supporters are of her palpable high crimes and misdemeanors.  If you are a loyal Clintonite, please open your eyes to the possibility that she may not be who you think she is.  Hate to break it to you, but the lady doesn't care about you, even if you are a woman. She is in love with her own ambition.  The evidence of her perfidy is available everywhere for viewing and it is conclusive. Hillary Clinton is a nasty, wicked, psychopathic termagant who has no business holding a position of power. If you wouldn't trust her to hold office in your ward primary presidency, why would you want her presiding over the executive branch of the federal government?

You Do Not Have A Duty To Vote
I always vote every election year. But I also recognize I don't have to make a choice between every candidate on the ballot. Sometimes I will only vote for candidates for a local office, or for the legislature, or maybe against a corrupt sheriff.  More often than not I will vote on issues and propositions. But I don't vote for or against anyone in any office if I don't know enough about them. Why? Because I could be canceling out the vote of someone more informed, who may have placed a vote for someone who deserves to be elected.

This time I likely won't vote for president. And you know what? It won't matter! As I explained back in April, the presidency is not decided by popular vote.  My vote here in Idaho will not decide the presidency, and neither will yours if you live in Utah.  So please don't get all het up because I've gored your sacred cow. The founders intended the presidency to be the least influential branch of the government. We ought to try to put it back in it's cage.

I have long cringed at the counsel so often heard every election cycle, "it doesn't matter who you vote for, just as long as you vote."

That stupid aphorism is aimed at the least informed people in our society, because those who cater to the least informed hope the stupid people will vote for them.  I don't want to see my vote for congress canceled out by someone whose entire knowledge of the candidate comes from a yard sign.

One of Mike Rowe's fans recently wrote and asked, "can you please encourage your huge following to go out and vote this election? I would never impose on you by asking you to advocate one politician over another, but I do feel this election could really use your help."

Mister Rowe sent back this reply:
“I share your concern for our country, and agree wholeheartedly that every vote counts. However, I’m afraid I can’t encourage millions of people whom I’ve never met to just run out and cast a ballot, simply because they have the right to vote. That would be like encouraging everyone to buy an AR-15, simply because they have the right to bear arms.” 
“I would need to know a few things about them before offering that kind of encouragement. For instance, do they know how to care for a weapon? Can they afford the cost of the weapon? Do they have a history of violence? Are they mentally stable? In short, are they responsible citizens?” 
“Casting a ballot is not so different. It’s an important right that we all share, and one that impacts our society in dramatic fashion. But it’s one thing to respect and acknowledge our collective rights, and quite another thing to affirmatively encourage people I’ve never met to exercise them. And yet, my friends in Hollywood do that very thing, and they’re at it again.” 
“Every four years, celebrities and movie stars look earnestly into the camera and tell the country to ‘get out and vote.’ They tell us it’s our ‘most important civic duty,’ and they speak as if the very act of casting a ballot is more important than the outcome of the election. This strikes me as somewhat hysterical. Does anyone actually believe that Leonardo DiCaprio, Ellen DeGeneres, and Ed Norton would encourage the ‘masses’ to vote, if they believed the ‘masses’ would elect Donald Trump?” 
“Regardless of their political agenda, my celebrity pals are fundamentally mistaken about our ‘civic duty’ to vote. There is simply no such thing. Voting is a right, not a duty, and not a moral obligation. Like all rights, the right to vote comes with some responsibilities, but let’s face it — the bar is not set very high.” 
“If you believe aliens from another planet walk among us, you are welcome at the polls. If you believe the world is flat, and the moon landing was completely staged, you are invited to cast a ballot. Astrologists, racists, ghost-hunters, sexists, and people who rely upon a Magic 8 Ball to determine their daily wardrobe are all allowed to participate. In fact, and to your point, they’re encouraged.” 
“So, when a celebrity reminds the country that ‘everybody’s vote counts,’ they are absolutely correct. But when they tell us that ‘everybody in the country should get out there and vote,’ regardless of what they think or believe, I gotta wonder what they’re smoking.” 
“Remember — there’s nothing virtuous or patriotic about voting just for the sake of voting, and the next time someone tells you otherwise, do me a favor — ask them who they’re voting for. Then tell them you’re voting for their opponent. Then, see if they’ll give you a ride to the polls.” 
“So no, Jeremy — I can’t personally encourage everyone in the country to run out and vote. I wouldn’t do it, even if I thought it would benefit my personal choice. Because the truth is, the country doesn’t need voters who have to be cajoled, enticed, or persuaded to cast a ballot. We need voters who wish to participate in the process.”
It's Too Late Anyway 
You'll excuse my cynicism, but there never was a political election that resulted in improvement for mankind. This one, more than any other, is destined to usher in harder times no matter who gets ushered into the white house.  Let's not fool ourselves; politics will not save us. Only Jesus Saves.

I have been entertained by the shenanigans of both sides of the race during this past election cycle. But the entertainment has been bittersweet. This country has taken too steep a dive to safely pull up.  All any of us can do is hope to find a safe place to land before the inevitable crash.

When will that crash occur? A year from now? Five years? Fifty years?

Somehow I doubt it will wait fifty years.  But come it will. When salvation finally arrives it will not come by way of an earthly president, but through our Great King.

Brace yourselves, though. Things could get a bit bumpy in the meantime.

UPDATE: October 25th, 2016
In response to a number of commenters below who took issue with me for this post, I offered a clarification. Since many readers do not read the comments, I'm repeating it here:
Those of you arguing for the importance of voting for Trump in order to prevent a Clinton victory may be surprised to learn I enthusiastically agree with you. My piece certainly wasn't an attempt to counsel others to follow my example. I was offering my personal reason for abstaining in this matter, not attempting to persuade others to do the same. I hope most of my readers will cast a vote for Donald Trump, and not just because I want my prediction vindicated. 
In my opinion, Hillary Clinton must be defeated, not only for the reasons many commenters gave above, but most importantly because the president will be key in nominating Supreme Court justices, justices that will certainly have an important role in deciding if Americans are more free or less free in the very near future. For a concise analysis of why this one issue alone is so important, I recommend Denver Snuffer's analysis posted the same day I posted mine. There are very real and very important issues making their way to the Supreme Court at this very time, and they are issues that directly affect the freedom of individuals. Denver's analysis is available here.
I am firmly in the "Never Hillary" camp in this election for many reasons, but that one in particular is salient because it involves the important issues of freedom for the individual. You will recall the reasoning behind my decision to abstain included the qualifier that "my vote will not decide this election, and if you live in Utah, neither will yours." Here's why I think so: 
Even if a substantial number of us here in Idaho were to sit this one out, this state will still have plenty of delegates to ensure Hillary Clinton does not win Idaho. I'm pretty sure the same holds true in Utah. I don't even think the sizable number of spoiler votes going to McMullin will change that. (I could be wrong; the neocon strategy is for McMullin to get so many votes that it would throw the election into the House of Representatives to decide, and they would decide for McMullin. But that seems to me highly unlikely at this stage in the game.)
People tend to forget that the president is not elected by the people, but by the states. The founders designed it this way precisely to prevent the majority from putting a demagogue like Hillary Clinton in power, because demagogues are adept at persuading the majority to deprive the minority of their freedoms. 
So WHO you vote for in this race, and WHETHER your vote is needed to elect the least dangerous candidate, really depends upon which state you live in, and more precisely which county. Because I live in Bonner County, Idaho, MY individual vote won't matter because the vast majority of citizens in this county are wise enough to elect enough delegates to prevent Hillary Clinton from winning this state.  
If I still lived in California, my vote for Trump still would not matter, because Sacramento, where I would have cast my vote, is a government town in a government county. There simply aren't a sufficient number of true patriots in that county to influence the process.
If, however, I lived in one of the 25 battleground counties in the country, I would, as a matter of conscience, HAVE to cast my vote for Trump, as my vote would indeed matter in electing a delegate who would in turn cast his vote to defeat Hillary Clinton, a defeat which I consider essential if we have any hope of slowing, even temporarily, America's sure descent into tyranny.

This Month's Announcements:
Speaking of safe places to land, Connie and I could not have resettled here in Idaho had it not been for the generous assistance of a handful of families who got here ahead of us. Their generous tithes and offerings provided the funds necessary to effect our move, and they have our continuing gratitude.

When I was expelled from the Church last year, one of the things I was accused of was "teaching people not to pay their tithing to the Church."

That charge was patently false, of course. In the piece alluded to, I very specifically stated that tithing was an obligation members owed to the Church, and I firmly believed it at the time.

Others have since persuaded me that given the Church's inappropriate investments in malls, office buildings, hotels, and condominiums; and its failure of compassion to the poorest among us, the leaders have broken their covenant with the people, and members are now justified in contributing their tithes directly where the Lord guides them to.

Last month some friends alerted other friends to the fact that Connie and I were in need of temporary assistance, and a number of people came to our rescue with their generous tithes. We want to express our sublime gratitude for that support. The earnings I had expected to receive when we arrived here have not materialized as quickly as we had expected, but thankfully our basic needs were met through the kindness of these several friends we have never met.  I have contacted most of these good people personally, but there were a couple of donations mailed anonymously, and I wanted to publicly tell those kind people how grateful we are for giving of their substance.

Since I have been asked if we could use a bit more, I will go ahead and admit that yes, we could. Although we have a bit of breathing room now, we are not yet out of the woods. It looks like it will be at least another month before I begin receiving an income, and we do have some unexpected expenses to cover as well as basic living needs. Therefore if some of you readers are so prompted, and if you have first completely provided for the needs of your families and loved ones and if you have looked after those near you who are in greater need than we are, then Connie and I are most willing and grateful to accept any small portion of your surplus you might be willing to contribute toward our use.

I firmly believe our first obligation is to tithe to those closest to us. So when you look for a place to disburse your sacred tithes, please look to the needs of those nearest you first, both familial and geographical.  After that, if you have remaining surplus, you can spread your tithes out further. But again, act on what you are prompted to do.

A Million Thanks to all our new friends!

Don't worry, I haven't gone soft. Next month I'll be back with another sardonic harangue against unrighteous dominion. Meanwhile, don't be like me. Go out and vote for Donald Trump. My credibility as a true prophet depends on you.


Unknown said...

Good comments though I think one should vote for one of the two that have a possibility of becoming president. If not, one may turn out to be one of those good people who allow evil to dominate because their actions do nothing to make a difference. Like you say Trump is not perfect, but he a lot better than Hillary. He made the Guinness book for the biggest financial comeback of all time and what this country needs more than anyone else is a financial come back from our huge debt. We are not electing a preacher or moral leader here we are electing an executive to run the country.
J J Dewey

Peter Brown said...

I'm unconvinced that McMullin is a neocon. He has worked for neocons, sure. But some of his statements don't come across as very neocon, such as his statement that the war in Iraq was a bad idea and that we need a softer touch in the world and not go to war everywhere. It's possible that in working for the enemy, he figured it out and doesn't want any part of it. We simply don't know yet. Too much we don't know about Evan.

I know he's read Friedman and Hayek.

He has also said many times that much of the decision-making we expect the president to do should be made at the state level. He seems to be a very big fan of the 10th amendment, which is a keyword to me of a Constitution man.

But he also seems to be ignorant of other things, he's still too invested in "destroying" ISIS, which he probably knows we created.

If I had a gun to my head, and I had to vote for the person with positions I most agree with, it would be Castle. But I'm also toying with the idea of not voting and legitimizing this sham of an election.

Anonymous said...

Rock, you can vote for me. I will be writing myself in. I'm not eligible to win this year due to age. But if the US is still around in 2020 I will be officially running then.

R. Metz said...

Clinton or Trump; what a democracy.
Why not watch "Efraim's Rescue", following the link
that I just found on youtube.
Happy election day.

Unknown said...

Thanks for the post Rock. One thing for sure the Clinton Camp are thrilled with Evan McMullin. While many Mormons may "vote their conscious" with McMullin, the Democratic party may win Utah with the divided Republican vote.

Tade said...

As a fellow libertarian, I too am not very pleased with the choice of candidates in this election. I am tempted, as has been my habit in years past, to not vote. One overriding issue however, prevents me from abstaining this year-foreign policy.

I agree with Murray Rothbard that the most important issue for libertarians is foreign policy, and I would extend that to include Christians as well. Nothing violates the non-aggression principle or Christ's injunction to love one's neighbor more than war. The devastation of war is incalculable. It's effects are greater even then the widespread death, rape and pillaging common to all conflicts. The loss of spirituality, devastation of free markets, greater concentration of power in the hands of the state are but a few of the often overlooked effects.

One candidate has threatened nuclear war with Russia, was the architect of the disastrous war in Libya, was for both of the awful wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, currently supports Al Qaeda in their war against the Syrian government, and generally has never seen a conflict she didn’t like.

The other candidate has stated he would talk to Putin and other world leaders instead of constantly threatening them with nuclear annihilation, that the wars in the middle east and north Africa were/are YUGE-ly disastrous, and that overall seems to recognize that the US military should not serve to “project power” to the world, but rather to protect the lives of Americans.

It is certainly possible that Trump will not have a foreign policy that is peaceful despite his rhetoric, after all, politicians do lie regularly on the campaign trail. Hillary however, is vocal and proud of her sociopathic blood lust and has a record of behavior that all but guarantees future conflicts.

Steak Presedent said...

According to Baba Vanga, the 44th president will be the last one and so neither Trump nor Clinton will win. It's your word against her's, Rock! Who is (or was) the true prophet!?

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Miguel, so now I'm forced to compete for followers with Baba Vanga!
The False Prophet Business is getting more and more crowded by the day.

dx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alan Rock Waterman said...

Tade, you and J.J. certainly do put forth compelling arguments to vote for Trump, if for no other reason than to prevent the unmitigated disaster that would be a Hillary presidency.

Who knows? I may change my mind when I get to the polling booth and vote major party candidate for the first time in my life. If I do, it will be Gary Johnson's fault for betraying his principles.

And Peter Brown, who is this Castle? I swear the field of candidates is getting more crowded than the false prophet biz.

Pepper Davis said...

I just recently came into your blog. The first one was on tithing and it confirmed exactly what my new convert husband had felt. I am sorry that you were expelled from the church for that reason but in honesty being cast out of the church for teaching true doctrine does not cast you away from the Lord. I am having my own paradigm shifts especially since the letter from the leadership telling all the members to vote against legalization of cannabis.

I then came into your polygamy article and that both gave me relief and angered met at the same time. I never felt it was right and now the lord has seen fit to tell me why

I appreciate your commentary here and respect your views but will have to add some crusical points. Every bite does not count because the election process is rigged.

In 2012 I was one of many firsthand witnesses to election rigging by the RNC. I was one of two witnesses that can show many evidences of election rigging to bolster Mitt Romney. He is not a good person and he is as evil as any other who uses his position in the church to gain a devout following despite the fact that he does not uphold the constitution in any way.

I am so over election and just want to live in a Zion like society of vokuteerists.

Thanks for sharing what you have learned. I have felt the spirit in almost everything you have said so far that I have read.

Thanks Pepper Davis

Pepper Davis said...

Sorry I don't see an edit *vote

dx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Okay, my friend. I'm with you on the Trump thing, but for a very different reason. So I'm going out on that limb with you.

You know I wrote a book nearly 30 years ago entitled, "Parallel Histories: the Nephites and the Americans." Based on my reading of the Book of Mormon, I could see the fall of the Soviet Union, and so called "peace dividend" that came as the result of the end of the Cold War. I predicted the rise of terrorism in our day and the corruption of American politics and national will. I predicted all this because I saw those things had happened to the Nephites.

So. let me put it this way. I believe the accounts in the Book of Mormon foreshadow events in America. So, the Trump story is there in 3 Nephi. Read the story of Lachoneus, the chief governor of the Nephites. I believe he is a foreshadowing of Trump's presidency. Trump will not only win that high office, he will endeavor to defeat terrorism, as did Lachoneus. He will do so because the American people will repent . . . somewhat . . . as they did in Nephite times, sufficient to overcome and defeat the terrorists of their day.

And I'll make another prediction here: The conspiratorial forces in our country will then rise up against Trump and the constitutional form of government we hold dear. They do now, and the will then, manage to collapse our national government, just as the corrupt judges, priests and lawyers did in Nephite times. Read about it in 3 Nephi, chapters 6 and 7. America will be left without a central government.

Not long afterward, the worldwide catastophes and destructions of the Last Days begin, preparatory to the Second Coming -- the very same pattern experienced by the Nephites after their government collapsed.

So, let's keep in touch over the next few months and years to see if either of our predictions were correct.

Thanks for all you say and do, Rock.

matt lohrke said...

I'm glad to see your concise evaluation of Egg McMullin, er, Evan McMullin. My Facebook feed (I know, I know) is full of Mormons saddling up to Brother Evan, blissfully unaware of his shady ties to unscrupulous organizations - the UN, the CIA and Goldman Sach's: that's the Trifecta of Evil (heretofore called "The ToE"), if you ask me. "But he's Mormon!" Well, so is Shady Harry Reid.

It pains me to see so many Mormons in the public eye who appear to have little, if any, knowledge of the scriptures. What a grand opportunity to preach the gospel of repentance, faith on the Lord, peace and non-interventionism; to warn of the scattering of the Gentiles (which is happening right in front of our very eyes just as the Lord told the Nephites at Bountiful would happen); to reclaim Joseph's good name; etc, etc, etc. Seems like such a wasted opportunity, but is anyone surprised?

What a time to be alive.

John Preston said...

Hi Rock, ditto on the Evan McMullin assessment. When I first saw the news article about a "Mormon" and "Conservative" politician named Evan McMullin, I thought, "why so late?" Then I did some research and everything is clear: he is very very shady. LDS people are so gullible and naive sometimes, and don't see the big picture taking place behind the scenes.

mrsorganicoils said...

Hi Rock. Always a pleasure to read this blog! I was surprised that you didn't mention Daryl Castle and Scott Bradley on the Constitution Party Ticket. Bradley is a good friend and genius constitutionalist from Logan, Utah. He used to labor in the Republican party, but gave that up a decade ago. I will calmly put my vote there and then wait for the inevitable train wreck that nobody can stop.

dx said...
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SB said...

Forgive me for being an old school anti-federalist fuddy duddy, but our unquestioned idol worship of the Constitution has blinded us to the fact that it was a counter-revolution to the principles of '76 and was rather a victory for centralizing state-building interests. We got it.

Vince said...

I absolutely believe that if the vote where held today, on election day and even a month ago Trump would win. My fear is that the elite will commit voter fraud in mass to prevent a Trump presidency. Our next president will be appointing at least 1 court justice and I couldn't imagine what type of person Hillary would nominate. Also, consider this, the media has been blaming the hacks on Russia. If Trump does win they are going to play the "vote was rigged by the Russian's" and declare the election a fraud. Neither will be nominated. Obama will either stay in power or hand the torch to Biden (more likely) while Congress/Supreme Court nominate someone else. Confidence in governments is a vital thing to a peaceful society. Whatever happens will further erode confidence in our system.

Daren said...

I had decided some time ago to not vote in the presidential election, due to the lack of qualified, sane, and ethical candidates. However, verses like these below were brought to my attention today and I've had a change of heart. No matter how horrible the candidates are or how rigged the election is, based on these scriptures, it feels like I need to make my voice heard.

Thomas said...

In reality, the war in Syria is a proxy war with Russia. The US has given weapons and financial aid to the rebels who want an Islamic dictatorship. They have done this because Syria allows the Russians to put military bases in Syria. ( Imagine if Russia had the same policy against us) Hillary was largely responsible for this policy and has clearly said she supports stronger measures against Assad. This is also what Trump is talking about when he says, Hillary started ISIS. And it is also what Putin is talking about when he says, If Hillary is elected, it will likely lead to nuclear conflict. It will lead to an escalation of the proxy war, which has a high likelihood of turning into full scale war between the major players.

I find it highly ironic that the media tries to portray Trump as the dangerous candidate when it comes to foreign relations. I have even seen the picture of a young boy covered in soot and blood, from the Syrian conflict used to show what the effects of a Trump presidency might be. Even more ironic when you consider that Hillary started the conflict the boy was injured in and is responsible for the refugee crisis in Europe as well.

In any case, I will do my part to make sure that your prophecy comes true and vote for Trump. He and Hillary are the only two that have a chance of winning and I don't wont to see nukes landing in my backyard so I will place my vote with a clear conscience. Sure it is voting for the lesser of two evils. Every time we vote, we are doing so. But it is like asking what do you want, terminal cancer or a cold. I will take the cold because I don't want the cancer.

Steven Lester said...

You guys are a bunch of space cases who see plots in every dark corner you pass by. Hillary, that great lady, will win and she will continue the policies and direction which our present great President has spent 8 years developing and pushing, in spite of the racist-fueled blockages set up by the Republicans at every turn. You, perhaps, have noticed that we only have an 8-member SCOTUS at the moment? Gee whiz, I wonder why??? And no, the Second Coming isn't near, either. Looking for it does pass the time, though, until you die and then find out that what exists on the Other Side is completely different than anything listed in that fake B of M that came out of the mind of Joseph Smith entire.

Unknown said...

The political realm is not your forte Rock... Even the tongue in cheek stuff is put your best.

I enjoy your religious analysis but I might have to warm up the Fonzie jumping the shark pic again.

On a personal note, I was asked by a friend and Home Treacher why I don't participate in the church as much as in the past. My answer was: tired of being lied to... "Really?!, I don't think there are any lies", OK, I said let's read D&C 132 and the church essay on polygamy... "Church essay??, what is that? I dont read stuff not approved..." Oh, it's on the LDS site.. "Really?".

Long story longer, the bottom line was the other person never new this part of the truth, the church had essays and proved, he like most took everything at face value.

And BTW the next four years will scar the US no matter who wins...

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Those of you arguing for the importance of voting for Trump in order to prevent a Clinton victory may be surprised to learn I enthusiastically agree with you. My piece certainly wasn't an attempt to counsel others to follow my example. I was offering MY reason for abstaining in this matter, not attempting to persuade others to do the same. I HOPE most of my readers will cast a vote for Donald Trump, and not just because I want my prediction vindicated.

In my opinion, Hillary Clinton must be defeated, not only for the reasons many commenters gave above, but most importantly because the president will be key in nominating Supreme Court justices, justices that will certainly have an important role in deciding if Americans are more free or less free in the very near future. For a concise analysis of why this one issue alone is so important, I recommend Denver Snuffer's analysis posted the same day I posted mine. There are very real and very important issues making their way to the Supreme Court at this very time, and they are issues that directly affect the freedom of individuals. Denver's analysis is available here:

I am firmly in the "Never Hillary" camp in this election for many reasons, but that one in particular is salient because it involves the important issues of freedom for the individual. You will recall the reasoning behind my decision to abstain included the qualifier that "my vote will not decide this election, and if you live in Utah, neither will yours." Here's why:

Even if a substantial number of us here in Idaho were to sit this one out, this state will still have plenty of delegates to ensure Hillary Clinton does not win Idaho. I'm pretty sure the same holds true in Utah. I don't even think the sizable number of spoiler votes going to McMullin will change that. (I could be wrong; the neocon strategy is for McMullin to get so many votes that it would throw the election into the House of Representatives to decide, and they would decide for McMullin. But that seems to me highly unlikely at this stage in the game.)

People tend to forget that the president is not elected by the people, but by the states. The founders designed it this way precisely to prevent the majority from putting a demagogue like Hillary Clinton in power, because demagogues are adept at persuading the majority to deprive the minority of their freedoms.

So WHO you vote for in this race, and WHETHER your vote is needed to elect the least dangerous candidate, really depends upon which state you live in, and more precisely which county. Because I live in Bonner County, Idaho, MY individual vote won't matter because the vast majority of citizens in this county are wise enough to elect enough delegates to prevent Hillary Clinton from winning this state.

If I still lived in California, my vote for Trump still would not matter, because Sacramento, where I would have cast my vote, is a government town in a government county. There simply aren't a sufficient number of true patriots in that county to influence the process.

If, however, I lived in one of the 25 battleground counties in the country, I would, as a matter of conscience, HAVE to cast my vote for Trump, as my vote would indeed matter in electing a delegate who would in turn cast his vote to defeat Hillary Clinton, a defeat which I consider essential if we have any hope of slowing, even temporarily, America's sure descent into tyranny.

I hope that helps clarify my position.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

By way of addendum to my comment above:
I've long believed that the benefit of casting a vote for a libertarian or constitutionist candidate (provided you live in a county where your vote to defeat one of the mainstream candidates does not matter) is that sufficient numbers of such voters alert the Powers That Be to the reality that the natives are restless. That's the only way to put the establishment on notice that the people are fed up with their predetermined selections.

Others recommend staying home and not voting at all, but I reject that strategy because those in power construe that as apathy. This fuels their narrative that people don't care, and they then double-down and continue putting forth the candidates THEY want in office. Better to vote for a constitutionist. If such a person were to receive an overwhelming number of votes, that would send a message to the political establishment. (The people's enthusiasm for Donald Trump is an example of the general dissatisfaction that has caught the Republican establishment off guard.)

Also, staying home on election day simply because you don't want to vote for president could prevent good people from being elected to other offices, or for bad people to get re-elected. You also lose your voice in the referendum process, which could mean higher taxes for projects you wouldn't ordinarily be in favor of funding.

So I recommend an informed vote. And in those areas on the ballot where you are not informed, just don't check anything.

SB said...

Rock, I'm not persuaded by Snuffer's Supreme Court argument. In focusing on that, we've dropped the intellectual ball and focus.

Please consider this:

and this short 10 minute podcast:

What? A branch of the Federal Government as the sole interpreter of its own laws? Heaven forbid.

What needs to be resurrected are the principles of 1798 (Madison and Jefferson in the Virginia and Kentucky resolutions) and the compact theory of the Constitution, with the parties of the compact, the sovereign states themselves, being the final arbiter of what is and is not Constitutional.

And the doctrine of nullification:

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Without having checked out your links, I can already tell you I'm sure I'll agree with you, as I see one is from the 10th Amendment Center. If the gist of the argument is that the Supreme Court is NOT the final word, that's absolutely correct. The congress can override a Supreme Court decision with a two thirds majority, and of course states can and do nullify laws they do not agree with, as I wrote in this piece here:

That having been said, both the electorate AND the politicians are woefully ignorant of their rights and powers, so it's unarguably easier to prevent bad judges from being appointed to the Supreme Court in the first place, rather than try to fight the uphill battle of petitioning congress to do their due diligence and solicit interest of a significant number of citizens to pressure congress to do their duty.

Thanks for the links, either way. I'll watch them as soon as I have time, and I would encourage others to click on them also. We are NOT slaves to the courts.

SB said...

Thanks Rock. Click on them, they are all rather quick. Regarding Supreme Court Judges, the argument that the repub's will get in the good guys is not borne out by history. (The 10 minute Tenth Amendment podcast surveys this)

As far as the ignorant electorate, yes, but it's our own local communities (cities, counties, states) we ought to spend our time and energy persuading and educating and forget the national goons.

Colt H. said...

Rock you really lost me at the grossly naive and Republicanlly wrong comment that Trump is "head and shoulders" above Hillary in the "honesty" department. Now rather than let you know that you are living in a bizzaro world if you believe that, Fact checking has shown that Hillary Clinton has lied less than trump. Yes she lies along with the rest of the world. I fear if Hillary does win, but more so for the backlash that it will create.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Well, if you're referring to the countless times Trump has made statements such as "Nobody _________________ (fill in the blank) more than me," then I guess yes, he has lied more often.

"Nobody engages in hyperbole as much as me" would be one of the most truthful things Trump could say.

Gary Hunt said...

Colt H.,

May I suggest that you fact check the "fact checkers". If you honestly do so, you may change your opinion.

Seagulljaap said...

You are a naive man, Rock. Every major poll shows Hillary ahead, and Donald Trump's campaign is practically in flames. The fact that Utah is polling as a toss up this year shows how in trouble Trump is. As for the lack of interest in Hillary, how do you explain record numbers of Latinos showing up in Florida?

dx said...
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Colt H. said...

But then I have to fact check the fact checkers who are fact checking the original fact checkers, exactly how many layers deep is it appropriate to go? Or are we conceding that truth is subjective?

Gary Hunt said...

Colt H.,

Truth is not subjective. Only our relationship with the truth is subjective.

Yes, you do have to fact check the fact checkers. What I do is if the news media says something for example..., "Trump said __________ at a speech he gave yesterday so he's a _______!" I think in my mind that if he actually said what they said he said, he would in fact be a _______. Now I can either choose to accept what they say as fact, or I can do my own research to verify if what they say is factual. Over the years I have learned through bad experiences that it is better to do the later.

So, I do the research and look up the alleged _______ remarks. Usually in the form of an online video of the speech. Doing this helps me to verify the validity (fact or fiction) of an allegation. I can see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears and not have to rely on the filters the news media, fact checkers etc. put on events.

John 8:32 says... "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." We have tools to help us learn truth. One tool is the Trivium method, which is General Grammar (Who, What Where and When), Formal Logic (Why), and Classical Rhetoric (How). Generally in our society we have been trained to skip the second part of the Trivium (Formal Logic). Here's an excellent website to help you learn the trivium method.

Jared Livesey said...

As some readers - granted, not all - were interested in Rock's Zion piece, I think some - granted, not all - may be interested in Mike Hamill's 8-part essay on Zionomics, the economics of Zion.

Colt H. said...

Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't translate well through written word. I'm well aware that truth i.e. facts are not subjective, although interpretations are.

Gary Hunt said...

Colt H.,

Sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm. Unfortunately, I think if you took a survey, most people would say that truth is subjective.

R. Metz said...

I am not an American citizen, but honestly if I had a right to vote for any of the two candidates I would not know who to vote for. Also your advice cannot persuade me. Everything that has to do with your Constitution, Federal law and election process has always been a mystery to me, and I am totally perplexed how, in this system, any of th two candidates could ever make it to surface as presidential candidates. Anyway I think the American people are too great to easily be handled by any of these candidates and the secret combinations they are part of. Personally I feel that Mr. Trump is more to be trusted; he is so stupid that he could not fool the American people. My only worry is that if he should win, harsh capitalistm would take the opportunity to take control of the nation.
I read your last update and get to understand you are doing good in the new situation. I owe you a lot, since reading your book and blogs have given me more understanding of some important matters (especially concerning the topics Church and war, and yes, tithing). Many many years ago I decided to pay my tithing (and in fact more than that) to my family in law living in South America, to make sure they will not starve and that two big boys can finish their education. As a result of which I cannot have a Temple recommend, but I trust the Lord will make it up with me in the end.
So that is all and my best wishes are for you and your family.

Jared Livesey said...

My decision was made easier when I noted that one of the candidates, whose "private" position became "public," fits a scriptural pattern.

SB said...

Again, forget the national goon squad. Focus local.

"States Don’t Have to Comply: The Anti-Commandeering Doctrine"

dx said...
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Jared Livesey said...

With her "dream" of a borderless hemisphere, expressed in private, now made public, as well as the Clinton Foundation highjinks and email scandal, Mrs. Clinton is now seen to fit this mold.

Ether 8
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain--and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

A borderless hemisphere is halfway to a borderless world - and working for a borderless hemisphere, or world, is working to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries - leading to worldwide war, which itself brings the destruction of all people.

People really don't like each other very much. Diversity + proximity = war, as one blogger puts it.

So the players and goals of the Great Ether 8 conspiracy are now being made public by Wikileaks and others, such as Edward Snowden.

And other interesting things have been happening - Roberts' ruling on Obamacare was beyond believability, suggesting to me he was blackmailed; Alito was found dead with a pillow over his head and no autopsy performed (interesting emails from Podesta, via Wikileaks, suggest it was an assassination ["wet work" has only one meaning in the political sphere that I know of, and Podesta is not a movie producer]); many sexual and financial scandals; "civil servants" amassing wealth magically...

We live in some interesting times.

PNW_DPer said...

These Secret Combinations have been going on for centuries, and as President Benson said in 1989, they are increasing in their power and influence in America and throughout the world.

However the prophecies of all the hidden things becoming known, and secrets being shouted from the housetops, are also beginning to come to pass, in large part through the technology of the internet.

And yes, Ether 8 as well as 3 Nephi 3 and Mormon 4 have all played a role in waking me up! These scriptures have been around long before the internet, but it is the things being revealed through the internet that helps correlate what it going on in the world with the prophecies and warnings of these scriptures.

Unknown said...

I laughed all throughout this blog commentary and especially through most of the reply postings: completely delusional. When Hillary wins, I hope you follow through with the hilarity by posting prophesies on our country's imminent destruction. Keep the chuckles comin'!!

Jenny Harrison said...

Been reading your blog for months and I love it!! This one was spot on. And I do agree, Trump will win. The American people are tired of the same old thing. Thanks for all you do to to help people like myself get the information they need to become more like our Savior Jesus Christ.

Jared Livesey said...

And yes, there is a plot to permanently eliminate Gentile political power, and this plot is now known due to Wikileaks.

For the TL;DR crowd: (language warning) - in cartoon form.

3 Nephi 16:13-15
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

14 And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.

15 But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall atread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.

Morgan Deane said...

You mentioned the book, War: A Book of Mormon Perspective: How the War Chapters of the Book of Mormon War Against Wars of Aggression and the Warfare State. I actually provided a review of the book awhile ago. Its a little bit more than a picture blurb and a link so I thought your readers might appreciate it. Thanks.

matt lohrke said...

@ Log - I don't think people truly appreciate how serious this is.

The Lord granted the Promised Land to Lehi's seed and the Gentiles - a.k.a. the British and those of British descent. Approximately 80% of white Mormons are of British extraction, as I understand it. To me this explains why the majority of the 12 were sent to the British Isles and Scandinavia - the collect the chosen Gentiles and bring them over as was promised and prophesied.

There are very specific conditions laid out for those occupying the Promised Land. We must serve the God of this land, who is Jesus Christ. The Promised Land is sacrosanct. Yet our church is spending large sums of money to import people here who don't believe in Jesus, much less serve Him.

We have largely failed to uphold our end of the contract. Look at the number of abortions, the STD ratios, the complete and total immorality of our "entertainment," the secret combinations, crime, whoredoms, abominations, deceptions, dswars of conquest, etc. It's not a pretty picture. We are indeed "ripe for destruction." The Lord said that they day would come that the Gentiles would reject the fullness of the Gospel and I think we've already crossed the proverbial Rubicon.

The consequence? The same as befell the Jaredites and Nephites - total destruction.

If you look at demographic maps of the currently political map, the Gentiles are slowly being pushed back from the West. California is gone. Texas probably isn't far behind. I honestly don't know if the Promised Land runs from California to New York - my personal belief is that the Promised Land is New England and the Eastern Seaboard where the Gentiles first settled - but either way, the demographics are changing thanks to the 1965 Immigration Act, anchor babies, and failure to secure the borders. As the wise man said, demographics is destiny.

Is Trump a savior? Of course not. There's only one Savior. But I feel like he at least gives us a small window of opportunity to repent if we choose to do so.

We've been warned and we ought to take the Lord seriously.

JR said...

Thank you for exposing Evan McMullin. He also has ties to the Clinton Foundation. There is a good article on another site showing his ties to ISIS and Muslim Brotherhood. Clinton and Obama and many others in DC helped and continue to help ISIS and other terrorists and terrorist countries.

It is disturbing that every Mormon politician has betrayed the country by supporting communist globalism and Obama and Clinton.
The LDS church has lost a lot of non Mormon support because of the globalist Mormons.

It is disturbing that so many so called church members will vote Clinton. Everything she has done, and will do, is anti Biblical and anti Christian.

If you do not vote Trump, fine. Please DO NOT vote Clinton or McMullin. If Clinton wins by fraud, like Obamatollah, the country will be in a Constitutional crisis.
The Wikileaks have exposed what many have said for years....the Clinton corruption and criminal acts. Wikileaks also exposed how sick many of the Dems are especially many who are in Clinton's campaign. Child trafficking, pedophilia, Satanism. Hillary Clinton's mentor, Saul Alinsky who wrote the handbook of how to destroy governments to put Communism in place, dedicated his book to Satan. Clinton's (also Obama) have a silent advisor who was a Nazi, and helped hunt Jews in WWII, and is now a Communist and International Criminal, George Soros.
The majority of people in Obama's half white mosque and campaign, and in Clinton's campaign are felons, common thugs.
The Democrats use violence and cheat to win because their platform, Communist Globalism, enslaves people and people do not want that, so it has to be forced. Unfortunately too many Republicans support Clinton's platform.

This election is about what will happen to the country. We know what will happen under another corrupt administration of Clinton....more of Obama but on steroids.

JR said...

Al@ muchacho56 :

If Clinton is fraudulently given the win the country will turn into a third world cesspool. It is in it's way. Europe is already there. Soros manufactured the "refugee" crisis as a way to accelerate the destruction of the Western world. Soros is also behind the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal. He helped write it and pushed it. He owns politicians all over the world. He leads the communist globalists.

The Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal will remove the Constitution and America loses her sovereignty. The country will be governed by foreigners that will not be elected. It will be worse than the European Union.

How sad that people like you want to live like those in Venezuela, Brazil, Cuba, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. Only the top 5% will not be affected. They will become more wealthy and powerful.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

I welcome Morgan Deane's mention of his review of Kendal Anderson's book above, because I welcome all views. However, readers should know that Deane and I differ markedly on the essential question of why the Book of Mormon prophets saw fit to write so much about war. My view is that the Lord was warning us against pre-emptive war, while Deane reaches the conclusion that pre-emptive war is justified.

unfortunately, Deane's personal views color his review of Kendal Anderson's book, a review that I consider disingenous and not very helpful to anyone seeking a fair assessment of Anderson's book. Deane spends more time engaging in ad hominem attacks and comparing his own academic credentials to Anderson's than he does informing the reader as to what is actually contained in Anderson's book, as though the honors of men are pertinent in any discussion of the Lord's rules of engagement.

Although Mogan Deane's own book, "Bleached Bones and Wicked Serpents: Ancient Warfare In The Book of Mormon" contains decent analysis of the MEANS of warfare in the Book of Mormon, readers seeking insight on the WHY of warfare in the Book of Mormon would be better served by Anderson's "War: A Book of Mormon Perspective" or Mason and Pulsipher's "War and Peace In Our Time: Mormon Perspectives."

Robin Hood said...

The Book of Mormon clearly and unequivocally warns against pre-emptive war.
You're right Rock.

Craig Morris said...

A review of Morgan Deane's position by Kendal Anderson can be found at

I agree with Rock. His views are opposite of mine about the Book of Mormon and preemptive war.

Morgan Deane said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Man, oh, man this comment thread and the original post are nuttier than a peanut butter factory.

Neither candidate is worthy.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

"Neither candidate is worthy" is precisely what I've been saying, Mark. Re-read the original post (also the two previous ones on the election I linked to) and you'll see. Many of the commenters concur with your point. So who are you arguing with?

Unknown said...

You called it, Rock.

Unknown said...

You are, now, officially crowned a Prophet (though am yet to ascertain the "of what").
And I want to bear you my test-money that I KNOW... (yea, fill in the blanks!).

Congratulations to Trump!

HappySeeker said...

when will you be leading us in a chant to go shopping?

Matt Linsley said...

Had to come back and comment a congrats on the prophecy. I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with what you spoke about when it comes to Supreme Judges, having already read Denver's post earlier last month.

Now if I could only get a prophecy on what the next up and coming start-up I should invest my life savings in so I could own shares in the next Apple or Google before it's big.

Jared Livesey said...

Matt -

You could try Jesus's recommended investment strategy.

3 Nephi 13
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and thieves break through and steal;

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

And the way we lay up for ourselves treasures in heaven is by...

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

If you make this investment, you have shares in the kingdom of heaven, and the CEO will come and give you your dividends.

Matthew 25
31 ¶When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye bgave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

It's the other guy who offers The Next Big Thing.

Luke 4
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Choose your investment wisely.

Janeen said...

Well, this is coming after the election and we know Trump won. I had a good friend tell me this morning that is he feels that Trump will not take office so maybe the Baba Vanga is accurate. One thing for sure... we are in for an interesting ride!

Robin Hood said...

mark moe,
Peanuts are not nuts.

Matt Linsley said...

Those who have ears to hear. Well said.

Fabio said...

Your prophecy came true Allan, your credibility ratings went up! Good job!

Underdog2 said...

Rock, good call.

Alex Jones too has been reporting that Trump, since the Primary, has had massive and deep support while Hillary had very little even during her Primary, which she actually stole from Bernie. The MSM-publicized polls were rigged, and even disclosed "over-polling" of democrats. Widespread publicity of these fake polls help explain why some people were surprised by the results. True, non-MSM polls showed all along that he was winning virtually EVERY battleground state. The surprise to me is that they still couldn't steal it in broad daylight. I thought the PTB would.

On another note, Rock, could you recommend a trusted source (even you if you've explained it yourself somewhere) where the electoral college is explained? I noticed that in almost all states Trump won the vast majority of counties. The counties he lost were where the big population centers were.

I'm guessing that the electoral college rightfully strips these populous counties of the unfair advantage of dictating to the majority of counties their (the people in the big cities) will.

Alan Rock Waterman said...


Recently, a pretty good explanation of why we need the electoral college happened to land in my email box. Here's the link:

And here's some commentary from Cleon Skousen. I've misplaced the source, but I think it's from his last book, "The Majesty of God's Law."

"In these instances, we are compelled to resort to the ancient test of “witnesses.” We must find someone with Constitutional discernment who has checked out the candidate or who knows him personally. This was the Founders original idea behind the Electoral College. They felt that if responsible, experienced and politically astute persons were selected by each State to survey the candidates, we would be likely to get higher quality leaders. In other words, the selection would be based on the principle of “witnesses” rather than having the people vote blindly on the basis of campaign propaganda. Although the politicians have kept the Electoral College from functioning according to its original design, the philosophy of “witnesses” remains a sound one."

Sadly, most people have lost sight of their role in the presidential elections. They think it is their job to vote for one of the candidates. In reality they are voting for an "elector" who is informed on constitutional issues and is able to see through the hype and propaganda. The idea was that we would be voting for delegates who would in turn cast a vote for a George Washington-type statesman. Good luck anything like that ever happening today.

On the bright side, if anyone needed proof that the electoral system worked this time, just recall that if the candidate with the most popular votes had won this election, we'd have a criminal as president-elect, instead of merely a stunted adolescent.

I'll take the adolescent over the criminal. Adolescents can learn to grow up.

Colt H. said...

Rock your point is moot. It didn't keep a criminal from becoming president elect. To only refer to the president elect as an adolescent is whitewashing things, Trump is a criminal the difference being he publicly encourages criminal behavior.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Cole, the quote I included from Skousen reads "the politicians have kept the Electoral College from functioning according to its original design" so of course the point is moot. One reason the EC doesn't work according to design is that the 17th amendment was fatally crippled decades ago, so we enter presidential races these days under a system almost designed to persuade the masses to put the worst candidates forward. No statesman has a chance of being elected president by the popular vote today because demogogues of all stripes are the ones invariably chosen by the mob rule. The most promising presidential candidate of our lifetimes, Ron Paul, was a true statesman, but his campaign was strangled in the crib by the control system.

Gary Hunt said...


What criminal behavior are you referring to?

Colt H. said...

The raping of a 13 year old girl, scamming people with Trump University, the sexual assault of several women, defrauding contractors by not paying them money for services rendered.

Colt H. said...

The moot point is that it didn't keep a criminal out of the White House. The only difference being it gave the criminal with less votes.

I understand the concept of a constitutional representative republic. But once again your logic on that point is quite circular.

Anonymous said...


Now that you are a bona fide prophet can you give me a list of stock tickers that will double in price between now and the end of December?

Thanks in advance, (I'll cut you in for 10%) ;)


Gary Hunt said...


When I looked into those allegations, most have been proven wrong or you cannot make a final judgement with the information available.The rape of the 13 year old girl and at least four of the women who accused him of sexual assault have been proven to be false. I am not able to verify the subcontractors situation. I know of circumstances where it may have been justified not to pay them . I could not find data to verify this situation as of yet.

He may well be a criminal in some instances. However, my experience has been that when I have researched what the media says something about Mr. Trump, I have found that many accusations have been false or greatly embellished. In other words I have ingested a great number of grains of salt.

Colt H. said...

Now wait a minute. Nobody said anything about verifiable facts! I thought we were all under the understanding that we just said why we feel and that it makes it true. You know, like Hillary is a criminal. Well this changes everything if we are using rationale and common sense.

Craig Morris said...

"... if anyone needed proof that the electoral system worked this time..."

The electoral system hasn't worked this time yet. The electors cast their ballots on December 19th. Historically very few have been "faithless" and voted contrary to their pledge but it has happened. A large faithless movement could trigger the Baba Vanga event. Tribes, here we come.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

I'm not familiar with this pledge, but electors are free to vote for any candidate of THEIR choosing. So yes, anything could happen.

Politics. Ya gotta love it.

(Or better yet, ya oughta ignore it.)

dx said...
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Alan Rock Waterman said...

I stand corrected. The final numbers are now in. Trump won the popular vote also.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

Jared Livesey said...

Remember - Amalickiah was a Nephite dissenter who sought for and failed to obtain rulership over the Nephites. He fled to the Lamanites and stirred them up against the Nephites to gain power over them, using intrigue, treachery, and propaganda to incite to war.

Watch for purple.

Jared Livesey said...

How interesting it is to see the Book of Mormon becoming more and more relevant to our lives. We get to see the kingmen live and in color now.

Colt H. said...

Rock they are still counting absentee ballots in California and around the country. This article is bunk nothing has been "finalized" yet pertaining to the popular vote.

Gary Hunt said...


I was the one who forwarded Rock the article about Trump winning the popular vote. I made the logical error (fallacy) which is called "confirmation bias". I am sorry Rock. I failed to verify the story. Colt is correct in that the results have not been finalized in California. All the mail in votes are required to be post marked the date of the election (November 8, 2016) and arrive in the election office no later that November 14, 2016 (today). County election officials have to report their final results to the Secretary of State by December 6, 2016. So it will be several weeks before the final count is determined.

Colt H. said...

Gary I have to commend you for admitting your error. It shows a level of intellectual honesty that we have rarely seen in this election cycle, especially when nobody would have been the wiser, expect Rock. We all have our moments of biases, Lord knows I do. But it takes somebody with real courage to go through the due process of questioning everything they read. Mine is born out of a fear that I will look like a fool. Thanks for your comments and honesty.

Colt H. said...

Of course in the end the popular vote won't matter. All we liberals have to soften the wounds that we are currently licking is that if it is shown that Trumo didn't get a majority of the votes, it will still give us hope in knowing that a majority of Americans still reject the vile bigoted and misogynistic rhetoric and actions that president elect trump has taken.

Jared Livesey said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Underdog2 said...

Colt said the "criminal" actions of Trump are: "The raping of a 13 year old girl, scamming people with Trump University, the sexual assault of several women, defrauding contractors by not paying them money for services rendered."

It was then correctly noted by Gary that those have been mostly proven false. I would add that ALL or most of them (esp the rape charge and any of the claims of so-called "assault") were false accusations and therefore criminal in and of themselves. Is there proof they were lies timed to cause maximum damage to Trump? Supposedly there is such proof. Either way, the need is for us to have discernment.

Jesus was alleged to have been of the devil. Was He? What about Trump? Could his enemies conspire to impugn and damage his reputation, for the purpose of making him look unpalatable to voters, perhaps painting him as a dishonest man, a racist, a misogynist? Maybe? Could they do this without facts, and just by bearing false witness? Is lying effective? You betcha!

Colt sarcastically said: "Nobody said anything about verifiable facts! I thought we were all under the understanding that we just said why we feel and that it makes it true. You know, like Hillary is a criminal. Well this changes everything if we are using rationale and common sense."

So Colt belittles the notion that Hillary is a criminal because there are no verifiable facts? Lest some innocent reader not be aware, let me share some top facts.

1) Is and has Hillary been FOR the tens of millions of murdered (esp black) babies in THIS country via abortion?
2) Was she for the invasion and killing of over 2 million Iraqis?
3) Was she for the destruction of, oops, I'm mean the "humanitarian mission" in Libya, where one of the most prosperous nations in all of Africa was ruthlessly bombed for weeks and overthrown eventually making it a failed state ruled by religious nuts? "We came, we saw, he died," she said with glee, speaking of Libyan leader, Colonel Gaddafi, who was hunted down, sodomized and brutally murdered.
4) Was and is she for the overthrow of Assad in Syria and continuing destruction of much of that sovereign country, which has created a massive refugee crisis, the deaths of starvation and disease of hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children, and the widespread persecution of Christians in that country?

I could go on and on with FACTS about Hillary Clinton.

Colt, do you have the intellectual honesty to admit, based on the few facts I listed above, that Hillary Clinton is a warmonger and wages war against human life in and outside the womb? I assume you DO have that honesty and WILL admit she is a cold-blooded, evil murderer, and truly guilty of crimes against humanity. She is not alone. ALL of the neo con Repubs are equally guilty as she is who support war against sovereign nations who've not attacked us.

I bring up these verifiable crimes of Hillary to juxtapose them against Trump's "crimes" you personally enumerated. I'm sure you mentioned his most offensive and nefarious crimes no doubt!

You've got some nerve, don't you think?

Let's see, millions of dead men, women and children, versus some unproven ("unproven" is the accurate word I use) allegations that have NOTHING to do with human life or crimes against humanity. Please step up and do what Gary did and show your intellectual honesty which you say "we have rarely seen in this election cycle," You say, "it takes somebody with real courage" to admit they're wrong. I agree. Please demonstrate your courage publicly so that readers here know your words are not hollow words that mean nothing.

If you demonstrate Gary's honesty I will be truly stunned that a cult-following Hillaryite has the capacity to humble himself and admit the candidate they supported is truly one of the most evil, warmongering, criminal, life-hating demons to ever run for POTUS.

dx said...
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Alan Rock Waterman said...

I stand corrected again regarding the false story that Trump had won the popular vote as well as the delegate vote at the time I posted that comment. But in Gary Hunt's defense, the story he referred me to was not the only one jumping the gun. A Google search resulted in a string of separate websites echoing that falsehood.

Graig Timberg was on the Armstrong & Getty show this week discussing his Washington post story, "Why Facebook and Google are Struggling to Purge Fake News." Good luck with that, Craig.

"Struggling" is the operative word. It's getting ever more difficult to sort the real from the false, when internet news sites are popping up all over with stories deliberately designed to mislead. Nevertheless, I was at fault here because I should have known the counts were not all in. Just shows how easy it is to fall prey to the horde mentality's desire to announce a definitive winner before the proper time. It is still possible Trump got the majority of the popular vote, but we won't know until all the votes are counted. But then, who cares?

I hasten to add that none of this matters to me anyway, because I don't care that Trump won, and I believe the majority is often on the wrong side when a contest is held to decide who is the most popular. We have an electoral college precisely to prevent the mob from triumphing, so if it turns out a majority of Americans favored Trump, that would not necessarily prove his overwhelming popularity. If a majority did favor trump over Clinton, in my opinion it doesn't mean the majority in this case truly love Donald Trump; but only that they despise Hillary Clinton.

Alan Rock Waterman said...

My apologies to reader DX, who way back on October 23rd noted my comment that "all any of us can hope to do is find a safe place to land before the crash," and asked me for my opinion as to where to find such a place.

I'm personally drawn to my new hometown, Sandpoint, Idaho, for various reasons; reasons that several other Uncorrelated Mormons have been immigrating to in the past year or so. I'm informed that at least six more Mormon families are looking into this area as a safe haven to ride out the inevitable storm. And of course before any of us discovered it, people of many faiths and political views came to the same conclusion: that it was best to get out of the city and into this quiet little haven.

(It's worth noting that actor, writer, and attorney Ben Stein discovered this place a good twenty years or so ago, and often writes rapturously of the peace he finds at his summer home here compared to the hectic life in New York and L.A. He is particularly struck by the fact that although this town is filled with conservatives, liberals, and libertarians, political discourse remains friendly and without the vitriol common on the outside.)

Of course, Sandpoint, Idaho is far from the only decent place of refuge. A few years ago, LDS author Royal Skousen produced a book and a video called "Strategic locations," describing a good many possible "safe havens" and explaining what to look for when resettling to a place of relative safety. I should note that I haven't watched these videos myself, but they are very popular. I don't even know if the link below is to the documentary itself, or if it's merely a discussion of the documentary, but this video is some two hours long so you should get a pretty good idea of some places to go, and most importantly the reasons you'll not want to be stuck living in the cities when a catastrophe hits.

Dave P. said...

Well, Anthony Larson, your Lachoneus didn't even last 100 days.

As of last night, Trump betrayed his entire base with a knee-jerk missile salvo against Syria for the same reasons we've been hearing for 20+ years, "It is vital to our national security."

I stand by the words of Samuel: Christ is my king. I will support no other.

Underdog2 said...

Dave P.

I am disgusted with Trump. "Make America Great Again," and he's out acting like the policeman of the world, and acting completely in violation of the Constitution. What he did, by bombing a sovereign nation on the basis of unproven allegations on April 6, 2017 (ironic it's Christ's birthday), was an act of war by any definition, and yet Congress was never consulted, and it certainly didn't declare war, though most elected prostitutes there would probably vote for war, because they are bought and paid for by the military industrial complex.

We are in serious trouble.

If Trump is trying to play some complex Machiavellian chess game with Russia and China/ N. Korea by going along with the blatantly fake news / false flag chemical attack, then he's dancing with the devil. And doing it big time. And when you dance with such pure evil, the devil doesn't change, YOU change.

I fear Trump has been sorely tempted by what the devil can offer and has sold out to the Satanic globalists very possibly. It's like he's possessed by an evil spirit -- he seems like a totally different man now, as far as his decision making. He appears to be betraying the people who voted for him. If he's NOT indeed betraying us, then there should be evidence to the contrary in the next few days or weeks.

Otherwise, Trump may be our last president. As he may be insanely leading us to WW III against Russia and China. In one week, he shifted to being a massively pro war president. In other words, he's been lying to us. He's a master deceiver.

I don't know what he is. But I know he's really NEVER talked about principles, like the Constitution or self determination, or the non aggression principle. Supposedly he's been awake to the NWO plans. But as of this week, he's taken a huge step to demonstrating he is WITH them instead of against them.

May God help us if he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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