Just four days ago, my bishop and the stake executive secretary showed up at my doorstep to hand me this letter:
Dear Brother Waterman,
The stake presidency is considering formal disciplinary action in your behalf, including the possibility of disfellowshipment or excommunication, because you are reported to have participated in conduct unbecoming a member of the church, namely apostacy (sic).
You are invited to attend this disciplinary council to give your response and, if you wish, to provide witnesses and other evidence in your behalf.
The disciplinary council will be held on Wednesday Evening June 3, 2015 at 7:30 p.m. at the stake center at 2745 Eastern Ave. Sacramento, CA 95821.
Regards,
President Douglas E. Hansen
Sacramento CA East Stake
There's quite a bit I could say about this upcoming adventure, but most of it has already been covered in this interview I gave immediately after receiving the summons:
What The...What?!
As you'll see in the video interview with John Dehlin above, I have no earthly idea what the charges against me might be that could warrant such a drastic reaction. Certainly nothing I've written in this blog entails "participation in conduct unbecoming a member of the church." As Church spokespersons have repeatedly affirmed,
"Church leaders are not asking members not to blog, and they are not attacking the rights of honest explorers of faith to have these conversations in the so-called Bloggernacle." Church Spokeswoman Ally Isom on KUER radio, June 16thSo that's a relief. It can't be this blog that's gotten me into hot water with Church authorities. Then what is it, I wonder?
Well, I did participate recently in a family reunion of sorts. This was a gathering of fellow Mormon bloggers, Facebook friends, and online acquaintances where we had a chance to finally meet, visit together, and enjoy a potluck dinner. Saturday night there was even a dance at the local school gym.
To be honest, a lot of us grownups didn't dance; we pulled up chairs to visit with each other in the hallway. Mostly it was teenagers and little kids on the dance floor. But I did come running when I heard the Macarena playing, because that's pretty much the only coordinated dance I ever learned -taught to me by my son and the other two boys I drove to seminary every morning back when that dance was all the rage. So maybe it's just now coming out that dancing to the Macarena constitutes conduct unbecoming. It wouldn't surprise me. Wouldn't surprise you either if you ever saw the way I dance.
Anyway, Sunday morning we all gathered outside and had a testimony meeting and partook of the sacrament. That couldn't be it, either. If bearing testimony of Christ and partaking of His sacrament is considered by anyone to be conduct unbecoming a member of the church of Jesus Christ, then maybe I am in the wrong church, after all.
As I was wracking my brain trying to determine what possible conduct I might have been reported as participating in that could by any stretch of the imagination be considered "conduct unbecoming a member of the church," I got a phone call from someone in Idaho who may have hit on the answer.
Apparently I've been trafficking in pornography.
Yep. I think that sort of thing would qualify as Conduct Unbecoming.
Rock Waterman-Purveyor of Fine Filth
This caller, whom I had never heard from before, informed me that he had pulled up my Google Plus account and found a video on there featuring two naked men going at it with gusto -by which I mean there was no naked woman in the scene with them. The caller didn't believe I had anything to do with putting that video up on my Google Plus site (he was right), but wanted to let me know about it just the same. I thanked my new friend for alerting me to this shocker. (The video was immediately removed by the fine folks at Google once they were alerted to its existence.)
Google Plus is one of the many things I've signed up for at one time or another then promptly forgot about. Frankly, I don't even know what Google Plus is or what it's for. It means no more to me than the myriad other sites such as LinkdIn, Pinterast, Imgur, GoodReads, or any other site some pop-up ad invited me to sign up for and I responded with a shrug and a "why not?"
I have no idea what these things do either and I never bothered to find out. So I'm prepared to state unequivocally right here and now that I am not in the habit of posting disquieting images of confirmed bachelors frolicking naked on any social media to which I subscribe and never use.
This news I received from my new friend in Idaho did not catch me totally off guard, because something much like it has happened before. Some months ago I began receiving reports from friends claiming they were receiving pornographic pictures, videos, and songs with raunchy lyrics, all coming from my email account. I asked them to send them back to me so I could see what it was I was supposed to be sending out, and sure enough, it was some pretty rank stuff. I still don't know who or why anyone would hack into my account and send people naughty pictures reportedly from me, but there it was in front of my eyes, and attributed as having originally come from RockWaterman@gmail.com. Unless I'm an unwitting somnambulist with a darker side, I'm pretty certain I didn't send out those messages.
This prompted me to post an asseveration on my Facebook page some months ago, affirming that I do not traffic in such things, nor do I post, send, or convey such materials online or by mail, and that I never have.
Interestingly, just yesterday my wife was contacted by my brother, Karl, who informed her someone had likely hacked into her email account, as he had received some distasteful and uncharacteristic materials purporting to be from her. A year or two ago her Facebook account was closed after the folks at Facebook accused her of posting inappropriate material on her wall. (She hadn't. In fact, she hadn't so much as signed in on Facebook for over six months prior to that notification.)
So this is beginning to look like a family business.
The reason I bring this up here is because since I began blogging, I've gained a few determined enemies. One or two of these individuals despise me wholeheartedly and without reservation. My online interaction with a couple of these guys has at times given me pause, as they do not appear to be in tip-top health emotionally or mentally. Connie has expressed concern to me on more than one occasion that if these people lived anywhere near us they might try to assassinate me and think they were doing the Church a favor. I've dismissed her concerns, but really, who knows? There are all kinds of people out there, and at least two have zeroed in on me and proven both in private correspondence and public that they have an obsession with me some might label "unhealthy."
[Warning: After I wrote the following section, a couple of people have told me they found it disturbing. So do I. But Connie, whose intuition I trust, felt strongly prompted that if someone wished to destroy my reputation, it might be by an attempt to peg me as a pedophile who keeps child pornography on his hard drive. (I have no idea whether this stuff has been embedded in my computer or not) "What else could they possibly have to use against you?" she asked, "Face it Rock, there are people out there who would utterly destroy you if they could find a way." We felt it was important to pre-empt any method anyone might feasibly try to use to attack me on this front by getting ahead of this story. So some may wish to skip the next two paragraphs, as they are disturbing.]
One time I was led to a link purporting to lead to one of my blog posts, the one titled "Too Bad I Don't Like Beer." It's not unusual for me come across something I have written that has been re-posted on someone else's site, sometimes in distant countries and translated into foreign languages. Some of my posts have been translated into Japanese and Portuguese, so I'm always interested in taking a look when I hear of it.
At this particular time, however, when I clicked on the link, I saw something I wish I never had. You know how you hear about seeing something you can't un-see? Well, when I clicked on this link that, for all intents and purposes, should have taken me to one of my own blog posts, I was subjected to a page full of pictures showing naked young girls who looked to be between the ages of nine and twelve years old, all of whom were being ravaged by men whose heads and faces were deliberately kept out of frame. These children did not look happy to be where they were or doing what they were obviously forced to be doing. In the one photo that sticks in my mind, a tiny girl is staring unhappily into the camera while holding her arm next to a man's very large erect penis, demonstrating that the member next to her arm was larger than her own arm from elbow to wrist. I hesitate even to write about this disquieting affair, but I think it's necessary I do so for reasons I'll cover in a moment.
But first, here's why I bring all this up: Whether my accounts have been hacked by deliberate enemies or just random teenage pranksters, it wouldn't take much for some innocent member of my local congregation to receive an email purportedly from me, open it, and find it contains disconcerting content. If two of these innocent recipients were to believe these emails came from me, and report them to my local church authorities, that is all that is required for me to be brought up on charges of conduct unbecoming a member of the church.
Of course, the proper course for those members would have been to contact me first before running to the bishop. That is what is required under D&C section 42, verse 88 before involving local church authorities. And if the bishop or stake president were to have any concerns about such things, they are required by scripture to approach me privately first to learn if these concerns are warranted. Issuing a summons to a formal disciplinary hearing is jumping the gun quite a bit.
Nevertheless, for these reasons I think it would be wise to issue a formal Asseveration, so I hereby assert that I DO NOT traffic in pornography of any kind, I DO NOT download pornography, I DO NOT and HAVE NEVER sent any improper materials, videos, songs, or lyrics to anyone at any time, whether by email, postal mail, or personal delivery.
My hands are clean of such activity, so if you or anyone you know receives anything purporting to be from me that seems out of character, you may know of a surety that I had nothing to do with it. And that goes also for anything purporting to have come through the email or Facebook accounts of my wife, Connie.
Okay. Enough said about that.
Prayers For Wednesday
If you've already watched the video interview above, you can probably tell that I'm ready for this disciplinary hearing and looking forward to clearing things up. I'm comfortable with the procedural law as the scriptures direct for these situations, so I'm confident I can make certain God's law is paramount in that venue, and not man's. Members of Christ's church can be held to answer only for transgressions, and I am not aware of any actual sins or transgressions I might be guilty of that would warrant such a hearing. As regular readers know, I'm a stickler for accuracy, so if this charge of misconduct has anything to do with my blog, I will be interested to know what errors of fact or doctrine I stand accused of promulgating, and if those accusations have merit I am prepared to correct my errors.
I see this as an opportunity to clear up misconceptions some people have -notably people who are not very familiar with me or my writings. Normally in a hearing of this type, the members of the stake high council will have no idea of the controversy going in; all they will know about me is whatever the witnesses against me have to say, and I will have the responsibility of defending myself by correcting whatever misinformation is presented.
In my previous conversations with both my bishop and my stake president, they expressed concern that my blog may be leading people out of the church. Regular readers know that's nonsense, of course, and in the past few days I've received testimonials from readers affirming that my blog has had the opposite effect; that it has assisted many in giving them reasons to stay. Anyone reading these words who would like to add their own short statement of support can do so in the comment section below. I will then print it up and present them in my defense.
Please add your prayers for me and Connie these next few days, and especially on Wednesday evening. Pray that I will be lucid (if you watch the video you can tell I'm anything but), and that I will speak straightforward with power and confidence. (In other words, I'd prefer not to stammer and ramble as I often do. Again, see the video above.)
If my membership is being tried because this blog offends someone in leadership, one might wonder why anyone in the Church hierarchy would wish to silence a voice that embraces the Book of Mormon, venerates Joseph Smith as a prophet, and bears testimony of Christ. In answer, I would simply say I have learned that putting the doctrines of Christ ahead of the doctrines of men will sometimes earn you the ire of some of those men. Throughout history, men who think they speak for God are often overcome with pride to the point they are unable to recognize their own faults and shortcomings while they are busy focusing on yours. As someone posted yesterday on the New Order Mormon Forum:
"I think the more cogent issue is the authority issue. Denying the Corporate Church its claimed celestial mandate, accompanying authority, and requisite demand/acquiescence of obedience is a far more threatening issue than a bunch of folks getting together for a chat or a new baptism or sacrament.
"Challenging the Divine Authority of the Church attacks its essential power-base. A lot of folks want to make this sort of thing about a "loss of revenue" for the Church by reduced tithes but in the end it's about who talks to and speaks for and acts as the Lord in this world. Remember, the Stake President is God in a Court of Love. He can strip you of your spouse and family for all eternity. That mortal, flawed and imperfect man acts as the Lord does on the last day--and will do that which he "feels" is the will of the Lord--ignoring the idea that he has pride, lust, love, sin, prejudice and humanity that taints his vision.
"It's that simple. If your conduit to the Lord doesn't run through the Church and only the Church you're going to find yourself in a bind with the Church.
"Not so much with the Lord, in my opinion."Thank you all for your support all these years. I have been asked if I would stop blogging if I am excommunicated from the Church, and submit to the authority of my priesthood leaders and do as I am told.
Come on now. I would hope you've come to know me better than that.
Related Post: Who Is Changing The Doctrine?
A Few Quick Announcements:
In previous posts I have recommended The Parallel Doctrine & Covenants as one of the most useful books I own. This is the only way I read the D&C anymore because when I read it I want to know I'm reading the most accurate versions of Joseph Smith's revelations extant. Right now the publisher, Signature Books, is clearing out all remaining copies at only $25.00 each. This book is normally fifty bucks, and when they're gone they will likely go for more (right now Amazon has a used copy listed for $102.00).
These books are available only through Signature Books.com or through the author at his Salt Lake City store, Benchmark Books. You can't get them at this price from Amazon or Barnes & Noble. Believe me, you need this book.
Also at an incredibly reduced price are Dan Vogel's Early Mormon Documents. There are five volumes in all, normally $45.00 per volume, but now going out the door for $23.00 each. These are incredible research resources, as well as making fascinating reading. I own two volumes myself, and if I haven't shot myself in the foot by encouraging you folks to buy out the rest of the inventory, I hope to eventually own the other three. These books are available from the sources linked to above, as well as on Amazon.
That's the problem, many people in the church do not talk to you first. They run right to the bishop. We have experienced this ourselves. Thus, beginning a long painful process that eventually led us to leave the church. I would be more surprised to find out that this wasn't on purpose and that it wasn't people in the church making sure you get in trouble. So sad. Just remember that you are who you are and believe what you believe and you don't need membership in a church that judges you without hearing your side first to be who you are.
ReplyDeleteBless you Rock. My heart goes out to you. You're a good man and meeting you at Sunstone last summer was a great highlight.
ReplyDeleteThese excommunications for "apostasy" are unbecoming of the Church of Jesus Christ.
Rock,
ReplyDeleteCount me as one whose membership in the church (including the formal church) has been strengthened by your blog. While there are many things where I do not agree with you (what two people do?) and I don't have time nor inclination to comment and point those out, I have been genuinely edified by your blog. Most especially by your desire and willingness to search out matters of faith with your mind and your heart and to be faithful to what God communicates to your soul. What could be more fundamentally Mormon than that?
My only advice is to be neither excessively defensive or combative during the meeting. Just be clear, recognizing that they are undoubtedly striving to do what they feel is right as well, and be boldly humble (how's that for a paradoxical recommendation) that your desire is to be honest (as you've covenanted to do) in your dealings with God and your fellowman, and to build others up, even if it is in ways that those you are meeting with may not understand.
My thoughts will be with you, brother.
Rock,
ReplyDeleteYour words have helped me refocus my testimony on Christ, His prophet in these last times, & His words as written in modern day scripture. Especially the Book of Mormon. I believe we as a church are under condemnation because we haven't begun to use and accept the Book of Mormon the way Christ intended. Thru my readings on your site and the rest of the "bloggernacle", I've come to begin to awaken to my state of unbelief , and how I need Christ desperately in my life. Stay strong brother. My prayers are with you.
On a side note, I'm still pretty amazed that you were able to get Connie to marry you. I'd love to hear that story some time.
Layne Lovell
It would be nice if the church could at least follow the process for excommunication outlined in the scriptures. Don't they read the scriptures and believe in them? Or is this just a bureaucracy and we've lost the word and guidance of God?!?
ReplyDeleteP.S. the church itself is the only thing negatively affecting my views. Seeing how church members like Rock handle these situations is a great example of Christ. Seeing the church go after its members like this doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings towards them.
DeleteI will not pray for you my brother because unlike you, I don't believe anyone is there to hear. What I can do for you though is send this:
ReplyDeleteTo the leaders of the Mormon Church,
Due to my loss of belief in the Church I have had occasion to speak with Alan Rock Waterman. He has shared with me on several occasions his love for and belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon is latter day scripture.
Despite the fact that I don't believe him, he has remained friendly to me. He, unlike many members of the church including some of my own family members, did not kick me to the curb, but embraced me and showed love to me at all times according to the commandments of God, because HE believes in those commandments.
Judge not - he doesn't judge me.
Love one another as I have loved you - Rock loves me.
Perhaps instead of disciplining him, you might consider following the same Christian path.
Jean Bodie - resigned from the church in 2007. The Church's actions have done nothing to warrant a change of mind for me since that time.
I wouldn't assume your political enemies are responsible for your gmail, Facebook, and g+ woes. I've seen your virus count. Your passwords were most likely simply stolen from your own browsing. The people who took control were likely trying to sell access to the type of material sent and posted. There's a good chance there were less disgusting emails that spewed forth from your account that wasn't noticed.
ReplyDeletePolitical enemies do much worse if they have that kind of technical know-how. They could simply erase you.
-Ben
Rock,
ReplyDeleteI am a cradle Mormon in my thirties. I have gone through a faith transition in the past year or two and I must say that you are one of the most helpful voices I've come across in the bloggernacle. Everyone likes to point out the problems with our history which I agree is important but you are one of very few who still holds strongly to a belief in Christ and the scriptures. Currently your interpretation of Mormon doctrine and scripture is the most encouraging I know of. Few other bloggers give reasons to still believe. At a difficult time when my beliefs are drastically sifting, your blog has helped me hold on to faith in Christ, the scriptures and Joseph Smith. I thank you for your voice. Please keep it up.
Steve
My dear friends,
ReplyDeleteThank you for those powerful testimonials. I am deeply touched, and convinced they will be of great assistance to me.
Thanks for your messages and efforts in spreading truth. What you've written has helped my understanding, and only made me believe the Book of Mormon more.
ReplyDeleteI wish you all the best Rock. If I were near Sacramento I would be right there to back you up,(That's probably why they would keep changing the date of the court). I know that nothing will happen except what the Lord would have happen, so chin up.
ReplyDeleteWhy go on Dehlin's wacky site Rock? He's a pop liberal atheist now, who posts DeGrasse quotes and anything intriguing on reddit (where all smart commentary is found). Dehlin is a pariah now, with his cult following of ex-mo's. His excommunication should have been done years ago.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, I hope they leave you alone. Prayers.
For as long as I can remember I've had (and continue to have) an unshakable faith in the restoration of the truths of the gospel as well as the atonement of Christ. And like Joseph Smith, I'm a seeker of truth wherever I can find it, and don't hesitate to question something that just doesn't fit with the gospel as found in the standard works. Chasing truth, especially when it runs counter to conventional, popular wisdom, is one of the hardest things we're asked to do as disciples of Christ. And yet Satan would greatly prefer that we take the "easy" route and simply do as we're told by those "in authority." ("And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved ..." D&C 76:25).
ReplyDeleteI'm so grateful that Joseph Smith did not simply follow the advice and counsel of his contemporary church leaders, opting instead to defy them, resulting in a face-to-face visit with God and his Son that has filled my life with truth.
I'm so grateful that Jesus Christ did not simply follow the advice and counsel of His contemporary church leaders, opting instead to defy them, resulting in miracles, teachings, and the atonement that have forever blessed the lives of all of humanity, ultimately leading to His death at his leaders' hands.
And I'm so grateful that you, Rock, have not simply followed the advice and counsel of your contemporary church leaders, opting instead to defy them, resulting in the strengthening of my (and many others!) knowledge of the true gospel, and turning my attention and worship to God and his Son, Jesus Christ.
Thank you.
Rock, after Proposition 8 cracked open my mind to the reality that our Church leaders had led me to do something that was very wrong, your writing helped me to recognize that my Mormonism was still something I could be proud of. My faith journey has been painful, and I'm still working many things out, but of everything I've read and listened to, you make the best case for continued faith in the restored gospel. If the Church excommunicates you, they will be pulling up a big pole in their own big tent of Mormonism. They will find that while they intended to discredit someone they see as a rabble-rouser, they ended up isolating many less vocal friends and neighbors within their own congregations.
ReplyDeleteYour message isn't popular because it is easy. Easy is the feeling of calm assurance that the prophet cannot lead us astray and that all the thinking has been done. Your message is resonating with thousands because we are restless to embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ without the fetters of an obedience-obsessed culture of conformity. Taking ownership of the need to embrace that gospel is not always easy.
I had no idea how cramped my spirt was feeling until I realized that I didn't have to stay inside the box of correlated Mormonism. What does it say about orthodoxy when leaving it behind produces such a spiritual awakening? Our religion is rich with beautiful doctrines. It has so much more potential for good if we would embrace those doctrines. Why have we relegated transformative ideas like Zion and Heavenly Mother to the shelf of things we speak about rarely and quietly while we blast nondoctrinal teachings like following the prophet from the rooftops?
If I could ask your High Council to consider just one thing, it would be the attitude that Joseph Smith had toward criticism. I can't find the exact quote, but he said that when he heard a criticism, he stopped and carefully examined himself to see if there was any truth to it. In the end, he felt thankful for those criticisms because they helped him to be a better person. Our Church is groaning under the baggage and blindness that come from decades of silenced criticism. In my opinion, honestly considering your kind of faithful criticism is the only hope the Church has of awakening to its divine potential. If our first prophet wasn't above criticism, why should our current ones be?
Somehow Rock, you got through to me when I was still a fairly orthodox Elders Quorum President. I'm sure that's not going to help your case on Wednesday, but it gives me hope of one thing: if you could reach me, then maybe you will reach at least one person in that room and get them to consider the possibility that "All is not well in Zion." If they complain about your "tone," tell them that criticism is not a tone, it's a remedy.
My thoughts and prayers will be with you on Wednesday!
Wow,Ricky and Martin Harris Luther exemplify my feelings as well. I couldn't have said it better. You have been such a breath of fresh air in the stale correlated, windowless chapels of Mormonism!! Thank you so much for your testimony, your positive attitude and sense of humor. Our prayers are with you Rock!
ReplyDeleteRock, it's extremely easy to be hacked either by people or automated bots if you use poor passwords or re-use your email/username/passwords everywhere.
ReplyDeleteI would guess your email account was hacked by some bot that is set up to do exactly that: hack an email account and use that account to build email lists and also to spam them with links to porn or file sharing.
That said, please do yourself a favor and make sure you use proper passwords. I recommend using 1Password (https://agilebits.com/onepassword) or LastPass (free) (https://lastpass.com) and following the methodology they recommend for your passwords. The learning curve is very small for either of these things and you'll be a lot happier not being hacked all the time.
Having said this, I think it's interesting you are being summoned. I will say that I thank God for one specific article that you wrote that I was lead to read at a specific moment about a year ago that affected me so profoundly that I received a powerful revelation directly after reading and thinking about what you wrote.
So lemme at least say thank you for that. If it's your blog they are upset about, then woe to those who call good things evil.
There's not a man in the Church better able to defend himself than you.
ReplyDeleteI'm, of course, absolutely nothing to the Corporate Church. I've never been able to successfully belong to it because of my autism and my celibate gayness. All I am is baptised and confirmed. Why haven't I just sent a letter to Salt Lake asking for my name to be removed from the records of the Church? It's because you've presented an accurate list of possibilities, scripturally supported, that gives me hope that someday the Corporate Church might be transformed into Christ's Church, which would present me with an environment wherein I might actually blossom, unaccused by all the worldliness that now pervades the Capital in Salt Lake. Nobody cares whether I stay or leave, but I stay because of what Rock has written.
So many, many tears, and prayers, and thoughts, and empathy for you and Connie. I am happy with my decision to resign from the corporate Church one year ago. I am at peace, and I can see myself in a better light now. Human confirmation bias is a strong effect that the 15 old men and their brown-noser-70's need to recognize and combat, but I don't think they will. I've found a little bit more Christ-like compassion in the local leaders, but only to the extent that they make sure they are following those beloved GA's. Sad, sad, is the whole situation.
ReplyDeleteI was a heavy investigator before I joined the church. I found this blog and others during those investigations. I'm a fairly recent convert. I had a relationship with Christ before I came to the church (normal Christian). I recognize power, fire and purity in the gospel when I see it. This blog and others have directly influenced me in my investigations in joining the church, has helped me to keep my eyes wide open and to not be influenced by man but to keep seeking after Christ, who is MY KING.
ReplyDeleteI study in Greek, Hebrew and the Paleo-Hebrew languages when I study out the scriptures. Men are flawed. Our King is not. The gospel is pure and our King reigns. I have found nothing in this man's writings that goes against anything God or Christ hasn't already laid down in His Holy Word (Bible or Book of Mormon, et al.) I'm in favor of calling things how they are. Stating verifiable facts about any administration is not attacking someone. And I've never seen him encourage anyone to leave this church or to fall away from Christ.
Just because the man (and many others) do not necessarily agree with how the organization handles certain things, portrays certain things, refuses to speak about certain things or conducts things in certain ways, does not mean he does not hold fast to CHRIST, HIS WORD, HIS TESTIMONY or won't fight tooth and nail to protect the purity that is the Gospel.
The same could be said for our government and the US Constitution. Just because I don't necessarily agree with certain verifiable and factual acts of the US government doesn't mean I don't believe in and support the purity of the US Constitution. It doesn't make the US Constitution any less valid. Rock's blog doesn't make the Book of Mormon or the Bible any less real or valid. And he certainly isn't asking anyone to "secede from the nation."
This man does not warrant to be "tried" for apostasy. If his google/social media accounts have been hacked, from an IT perspective, this is easy enough to verify, explain and remedy. No one should be convicted of things we haven't done and have no control over. Men aren't perfect, but hopefully the leaders are smart enough to at least recognize this?
This blog is a staple in my studies.
I share many of the truths I've found by being able to get a hold of original documents, books, teachings etc.. (remember heavy investigator!) with those who are able to hear them in love and in wisdom. Those who I share these things with recognize the truth when they hear it and it is sweet to them (sometimes powerful as well). I rarely share that most of the time these teachings --although true--come from either those previously convicted of apostasy or those being questioned for it. Many are often surprised when I read out of an 1898 version of "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith."
This man has does nothing to deserve Apostasy. His blog has only strengthened my thirst and hunger for the WORD OF GOD, but my thirst for TRUTH and knowledge as well --which is everything Joseph Smith cried out for.
To the leaders:
Please see the power, the purity and the truth. Absolute truth can withstand ANY scrutiny and it is the only absolute truth that is the Word of God that Rock is upholding.
Thank you for hearing me.
This post will come up under a private Google Account I've created, not my real name, for I am an avid author myself.
[Rock: I may have just submitted this comment under my work account. If so please delete it and post this instead! Sorry for the hassle.]
ReplyDeleteI'm another who has been refreshed and strengthened by Rock's writings. Leaders discourage the voicing of opinions like his because "it might hurt someone's testimony." But the absence of such voices at church has hurt the testimonies of people like me. Are our testimonies less important than the typical "follow-the-prophet" Mormons'? To Rock's leaders: Please don't punish him because he's helping the people you can't. 1 Corinthians 12:21: "And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you." Let Rock do his bit for the Kingdom.
I discovered your blog at a time when I had begun to question everything I previously "knew" to be true. When I realized that I had been fed a manufactured version of Mormonism and the Gospel my entire life I was ready to call it quits and leave the LDS church behind. Your blog, among many other readings, helped me to refocus on Christ and begin to awaken to my true spiritual potential.
ReplyDeleteTo your bishop, stake president, and high councilors: I consider Rock Waterman to be a true disciple of Christ and an ardent defender of the faith. He is one among many who has not only helped me stay in the LDS church (despite all of the un-christ-like actions I see in the corporate church that push me away) but has helped me to progress spiritually more in the last two years than I had in the previous 34 (even having been born in the church, served a mission, and married in the temple). If he is cut off then God will surely weep and those responsible will be held accountable for their pride and unrighteous dominion.
I don't remember how I first came across your blog, but after reading some things you wrote (I can't remember what I read first, but I think I read "the marriage one" completely through), I read the title to one of your blog posts "are we paying too much tithing?" I thought it was gonna be just another rant about the church having too much money, but I didn't expect to be so enlightened by what I read. I didn't realise that tithing was only meant to be 10% of one's excess money and you basically proved your point, as you gave very convincing evidences. However, I then needed to pray to know if this was what God would have me do. I received the answer that it is.
ReplyDeleteThen, I must say, I got hooked on your site and read most of your blogs! I wasn't someone who was almost out of the church and then you helped me stay. But after I learned what you were about, that you were interested in the pure gospel of the restoration without the rubbish of false traditions, I found someone who wanted the same thing as me. I had seen that false teachings had crept in the church and I had fallen for some, while others confused me. I was wanting to change that and learn what else had gone wrong. Each of your strange titles, like "How Corporatism Has Undermined and Subverted The Church of Jesus Christ" made me want to know what was going on with the church and what was going on with you (the picture for that one was strange, and I thought was inappropriate at first). What you said you were hoping to achieve with your book title, certainly worked for me with your post titles. I don't think they're strange now. My earlier assumptions of you were found to be false.
The next big game changer for me was your article on polygamy. It's hard to express how wonderful it was to learn that Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy and it was never a true doctrine. I'm not going to cover all my previous thoughts on this, because my post would be too long, but suffice to say, I read some disturbing things about polygamy and couldn't understand how they could be true. Even before then, while I was an investigator to the restoration, polygamy was a difficult issue. Then it was liberating to no longer have to carry that baggage around!
Then this sort of thing happened again and again.
Now, I don't agree with everything you say, but it's only really the post about the nature of God in "Know your Religion" that I don't accept. But I do not, and never have, felt that someone who believes an incorrect doctrine like this is sinful or apostate. When I thought of people teaching false doctrine, I thought of official teachers at church continually teaching something false and that the only penalty for this would be they get released at a teacher. Not get excommunicated. An excommunicatable offense would be someone repeatedly (as in continuing after being asked to stop) teaching someone to do something wrong, something actually sinful.
I'm unsure about other things you say. I need to study and pray about those things. I "should" be saying I disagree with you about Thomas S Monson not being a prophet. I love that man and I prayed to know if he is a prophet and received the answer "yes". But for some reason, I don't feel to disagree with what you say, unlike the other topic I mentioned above. I read your post last night and even watched the whole interview and I was happy to do so. If I consider the whole paradigm you have it makes sense, while I still have a messed up one.
So no, Rock, you should not be excommunicated for this blog as this isn't apostacy. Even if some things are incorrect, you are striving to do what is right and follow the Lord, not a group of men. That's something we should all be doing.
Dear Alan Rock Waterman.
ReplyDeleteI'm an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, with a solid testimony of the Book of mormon and the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
In 2007 I was in despair, as I could not reconcile the church culture and teachings, with what I had been taught growing up. And worse; I could not reconcile it with the scriptures I've studied in seminary and institute, and my feelings as a member trying to follow Christ to the best of my ability.
I was angry, distraught, sad and full of irritation. I remember thinking "Am I crazy? Am I really alone in this?"
But slowly, and surely, I found members spread across the globe that felt the same. Thousands. And a year or two later I found you, and your beautiful blog.
A cannot describe how much you have meant to me! And I know many, many, feel the same.
You have helped us stay, and be happy. You have helped us to find peace, and helped us see how Christ teachings expand and engulf all the tiny problems we may have in dealing with our human frailties as members / leaders / followers of Christ, in an earthly organisation.
From what I have seen and heard by those around me you have made a huge contribution in keeping members in the Church active by strengthening their testimonies of the Book of Mormon, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the prophet Joseph Smith and many other teachings of the Church.
I pray that you will be able to speak with that soft, yet clear voice, that you have. And that those in front of you may find you as strong a member as anyone, as that is what you are.
And I am truly afraid, not for you, but for the people placed to somehow "judge" you, as they may be tempted to place judgement without clear knowledge, or worse against their conscience, and offend God by crushing a man of Christ. The truth is, if Rock Waterman is thrown out from our society of friendship, so are hundreds of thousands by proxy.
It would be a deathblow to all good members out there. Because the word is established; "You believe in Christ and the restoration, yet you're not wanted. Get away from us."
Thank you Rock, and may God bless you,
/ Marcus
Dear Rock,
ReplyDeleteI stumbled upon your blog about 15 months ago. Thank you for the fine work you do. I truly appreciate how you document your posts, so that we readers don't have to take anyone's word for their opinions. We can follow links and read first hand the scriptures, quotes and documents for ourselves.
One of the first posts I read when I first discovered your blog included a story about an experience Connie had. I read the story about how your wife and her friends decided to donate a Thanksgiving dinner for a very needy family, even though they did not have enough funds between themselves to purchase a meal, nor did they know who the needy family was. The Holy Spirit lead them to the right grocery store where the manager had to be convinced to donate the food items. But the Holy Spirit worked on him, and the women left with bags of food for a needy family. Then they were led to precisely the right door, just as the mother had finished her prayer to Heavenly Father asking Him for to bless her family with the much needed food. I knew the story was there for me to pay special attention to. Then I had an experience of my own the next day, where I was prompted to help a family in sudden need.
I want you to know that you have my gratitude for the fine work you do in keeping your readers informed about some very important gospel issues. Your blog has changed my thinking on a number of topics, and reinforced my thinking on other topics.
Now I read my scriptures with more intent, and in greater detail. I also take additional interest in what is being done in my name within the Church. I am taking more responsibility for my own knowledge of the gospel.
Thank you for your blog, Pure Mormonism. It helps me stay true to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Linda
SaintsFan1111,
ReplyDeleteYou ask me why I went on John Dehlin's site. I gather you're asking why I allowed myself to be interviewed by him.
Because he was the first to ask me, that's why. John Dehlin and I are polar opposites as regards our belief systems. But so what? Laurie Goodstein and I probably have very little in common theologically, yet I allowed her to interview me for the piece she did for the New York Times last year. Same with a half dozen or so other journalists who were interested in what was happening with me.
I hope I don't ever get to the place where I start to think I should only associate with people whose views agree with my own. If our missionaries took that attitude, how would they find any converts?
Rock,
ReplyDeleteGood luck in your court case. I wish you all the best. May the spirit guide you in defending yourself against these charges. You and your writings have helped me stay active and have caused me to study the scriptures and research Church history better than I did before. Make sure you force yourself to listen as well as to defend your position. I hope it all turns out well for you.
Randy
Dear Rock Waterman,
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I have read your blog for some time. we llove you because you are not afraid to tell the truth about Mormonism, good, bad or indifferent. You are an example to us in being honest in all our dealings with our fellow human beings. You have kept us active in the church when we would not have been otherwise. Honesty means so much! Why can't the Church be as honest as you?
The Church says members are free to blog about their point of view, but now you are being disciplined for it.
This makes no sense to us. Either the Church is lying or your stake president is out of harmony with the leaders,
Please give this letter to your stake president from us. Maybe then he will recognize he is wrong to do this.
If you are excommunicated anyway, we will know the Church is lying.
And so will the rest of the world.
The only good Mormon is the one who parrots the party line or stays quiet.
The same church demanding freedom of religious belief for itself refuses to grant it to its members.
We love you, Rock! May God richly bless you as you get to learn how Abinidi felt.
Corbin and Dee Volluz
508 South Second Street
Mount Vernon, WA. 98273102
Hi Rock!
ReplyDeleteYour blog has been completely instrumental in our family finding the real Christ in the gospel. Before this, we felt out of place and were considering leaving. But your blog helped me to realize what we can do to connect with God and Christ, and how beautiful and incredible the core gospel is. And that variety in our beliefs is a huge part of that. I can glean so much from everyone I meet now, and I feel like it's easier to connect in love (like Christ did). Thanks for helping me find that in myself. I think it's safe to say that we've chosen to stay and been active in our ward the past few years (even through some difficult struggles) in large part because of this blog. And probably anything else we found that helped us was linked from here. It's helped us to reconcile serious questinos about church history and the issues with how money is spent, treatment of LGBT, etc. Thank you for having the love and courage to share things that you have learned, and help us realize that our relationship to God is up to us, and no one else. We are praying for you and wish you the best at your meeting.
Love, The Stewart Family
Highland, Utah
Members are free to blog, of course - the Church literally and legally cannot stop that - and the Church is also free to censure, rebuke, punish, and excommunicate members based on the contents of their blogs. These two statements are consistent in principle.
ReplyDeleteAs Spock said, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." If, therefore, one's blogging activities are likely, in the views of the authorities, to result in someone questioning the authority of the Church, the historical narrative which supports her claims to authority, or the scriptures upon which she rests her claims to authority (such as D&C 132), then she will excise you because you are a threat to her marketing and indoctrination efforts.
And why not? The Church is best understood as a corporation, with the 15 as the board of directors / CEOs / CFOs, etc. Power and authority flow down from the top, and responsibility flows up from the bottom; each level in the hierarchy only answers to those that are higher, not those that are lower. Priesthood is most profitably viewed as the management of the corporation. The members are best understood as employees of the corporation, and as long as everyone's on task and on message, presenting a unified image for public consumption, everyone's happy. Thus excommunications for blogging activities are, in principle, no different than any other corporation firing employees for embarrassing the company on social media.
It just so happens that the Church claims its firings are firings indeed - as in the firings of hellfire and damnation. But so what? If one's getting fired, it's a pretty safe bet that one already doesn't believe her claims, and probably believes that she isn't actually paying the employees.
Apostasy is best understood as publicly stating something at odds with the marketing efforts of the Church, such as expressing public disloyalty to the management, particularly the highest levels, or publicly claiming their actions or policies to be illegal (unscriptural). Granted, the Church Handbook of Instructions - the books that the corporation is actually being run by - are not canonized. But as they were commissioned by the highest levels in the earthly hierarchy, they are held by management to be binding upon the management for rules and procedures.
So I feel to differ from Brother Volluz. The Church is not lying if it excommunicates people for the contents of their blogs while stating that members are free to blog. She does, after all, claim the power and authority to judge the thoughts and intents of heart, and to separate herself from those who deride her ideology or her stories about her past, or who do not share her goals nor esteem for her management, and who embarrass her publicly; even we may amputate a gangrenous appendage to save the body, without inconsistency.
And the Church need not be declared inconsistent if she asks governments to refrain from punishing the corporation for her own speech; after all, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, and the scriptures already justify her in befriending Constitutional principles with respect to law so that her body may live; she is, after all, seeking the eternal benefit of all mankind by expressing her views and beliefs. The Church will not suffer that her legal existence shall be threatened because of her perceived importance to the salvation of mankind.
The Church is therefore consistent in excising those expressing what she deems unacceptable to her public marketing or private indoctrination, thus seeking to ensure her survival and health, and also in seeking to ensure her right to speak without legal sanctions, and thus her survival to express her message. In both cases, she is acting to preserve both herself and the function for which she exists, and this really cannot be faulted.
The Church may not be "lying" with the statement that members can blog whatever they wish--they ARE being disingenuous and effectively lying by omission.
ReplyDeleteIs that what Jesus would do?
Rock,
ReplyDeleteYou are a great defender of the restoration. Much of the fruit of the gospel lies in neglected orchards, but you have let thousands know that it is real and powerful. May the Lord's blessings be with you and your family.
If so many people get exe'd for disloyalty to the corporation, who will be left to be indoctrinated?
ReplyDeleteThe irony, is that it's things like Rock's blog and Denver's PtHG that have kept so many in the corporation and available to give all the support that they will to said corporation.
"Lying by omission" is an odd charge to attempt to bring, in conjunction with the question "is that what Jesus would do?"
ReplyDelete22 And it came to pass when I was come near to enter into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman to look upon;
23 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see her, they will say—She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise:
24 Let her say unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live.
Or, if that doesn't satisfy, how about this?
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
There appears to be precedent for omitting things, even by Jesus - both pre- and post- mortal. I'm going to suggest the concept of "lying by omission" is not a true principle, and is therefore not of God.
There are so many ways to slice and dice this stuff - "the devil's in the details" is an accurate statement, because that's exactly where he lives and does his best work.
ReplyDeleteSimple fact: all that matters in this world is a personal testimony that God loves you and you are doing his will. Nothing else matters, because God can turn anything to good purposes - we just can't necessarily see it. Which is why, again, our personal testimony should be our only goal.
"...he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another."
As long as we feel certain of the testimony of his love, we need not contend anything man does, even if it's acting as though they are God.
Dear Rock,
ReplyDeleteThese are my words of support. I have been a bishop, missionary high council man and avid reader of church related materials. When I started to learn about some of the troublesome issues of church history, I fell in a depression since the church and everything about it meant the world to me. I was contemplating to quit in my head to get away from all the confusion.
Your writings have helped me to remember that I have felt a witness of the spirit while studying the Book of Mormon. (I remember your own testimony of this from your John Dehlin interview) and that Incan separate the problems I see in the structural church from the spiritual church being faith, repentance and a Christ's teachings.
The scriptures you shared along with your thoughts have provided me with enough of a foundation again to rebuild my own house of faith. Your testimony has helped me to get away from the constant feeling of negativity that comes from learning about the issues for the first time and allowed me to focus again on serving, on loving my fellow ward members and knowing that Christ is still there.
I pray that you will continue to keep a positive attitude and don't let these proceedings make you become bitter. I also pray that your stake president will follow his own heart with compassion and has the integrity to withstand any pressure from authorities above when it comes to protect one of his own flock.
Sincerely
Doubting Bishop (I may have to get a new screen name)
Well this is good news. Finally the Church will have to make itself clear on where it stands; you have done that already. I know the outcome. Of course you will be put out at the end, because this is the way things are settled in the gentile world, of which the Church has become a part of, since it has been taken over by businessmen, bankers and lawyers. They don't like orthodox Mormons who are outspoken, these are considered disturbers and annoyers that have to be taken care of. I am sorry for the people on that court, although it just a hearing (what it is supposed to be, because no charges were made, as I understand), and I would'nt be them for the world; it is a terrible thing to fall in the hands of the living God.
ReplyDeleteI have read many of your blogs and they are wonderful, enlightening, honest, warm. You love the truth and so do I, and there we meet. We will hear from you.
Thanks for the reading tips. Best regards, Rik Metz, the Netherlands.
Dear Rock,
ReplyDeleteMy prayers are with you, my brother, the time has come and the alter is ready for your offering. Be of good cheer and know that many faithful have gone before you, including two brothers.
2 Nephi 9:44
44 O, my beloved brethren, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments, and I shake them before you; I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all-searching eye; wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him, and am rid of your blood.
Your brother in Christ.
Roy Moore
Rock,
ReplyDeleteI've prayed that the truth hits the hearts of those in your meeting.
Be prepared for IMO the pre-decided outcome. You are out, this will not be a fair exchange. Sorry for the tough love but the top-down management (again IMO) view you as subversive. I see similar things in the business world. Even if you are 100% honest and accurate the leaders wil not tolerate being shown to be the emperor with out clothes.
Remember, bioth before and after the meeting you will still have your relationship with God the father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.
Be true to the truth! It will be HARD!!
Please let us know how things develop. I don't think your accounts that were hacked are in play. It's this blog (which I appreciate).
And... I'll add you have been very true to your concept of "pure Mormonism". Everything changed once Brigham morphed into the prophet.
Take care!
Mark
Rock, Good luck with Wednesday evening. I don't think what they're trying to do is right. I wish you well!!!
ReplyDeleteRock, you should tell the police about the filthy stuff sent with your email address, if you haven't already, as it's downright illegal.
ReplyDeleteThank you EVERYONE for the kind words of support.
ReplyDeleteRoy Moore, I was surprised I don't have contact information on you. Please email me.
Miquel, unfortunately I deleted the evidence, so I don't have anything to take to the police. I'll know better next time, but my immediate reaction was to get rid of the stuff. (My real concern is that by clicking on it, I may have inadvertently downloaded some of it to my hard drive where it sits waiting like a time bomb to be rediscovered.
That is, of course, the reason I took this preemptive action.
Again everyone, thanks for your thoughts prayers, and divine energy. Please continue to pray for me beginning 7:30 PM pacific time. I know that together we can convey truth.
(Check this blog tomorrow for a report on the outcome.)
I just found your blog! I've been reading it for 24 hours straight. It's been such a help to me. I want so desperately to have faith in the gospel and your writings have helped me build my framework of how to stay faithful with such severe and unsettling realities. My husband and I, in our mid-30s, say almost weekly that the church our daughter will be raised in will be so different than the one we were. I welcome that whole heartedly and thank you for being on the forefront of that change. I'm incensed that you would be disciplined for your viewpoints. Incensed and afraid...because if you're getting taken down, there are a lot more of us in trouble.
ReplyDeleteRock, I agree with Connie of the importance to preemptively state against the hacking filth. Because I believe there are evil and conspiring men who would use it against you. Rock, will Connie be at the court with you? I think they should have to look you both in the eyes before, what they believe to be taking away your eternal marriage and eternal exaltation. Also, Connie exudes goodness :-) It should make them think. Even though I see the writing on the wall, it's so painful to go through and I also feel much pain for their souls. I will continue to pray for your peace and safety and that you will speak with the power of God. And that maybe you will have an Alma :-)
ReplyDeleteLove, Tammy
Rock,
ReplyDeleteI've never commented here before, but I wanted to voice my support and thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences with all of us. My thoughts and prayers are with you and wish you and Connie nothing but the best. Good luck!
Rock,
ReplyDeleteI just read your post and hopefully your meeting is over by now. It reminds me of a similar meeting I had with an RLDS Stake President about 35 years ago. What you have been through and possibly will go through is not easy and my prayers are with both you and Connie.
I consider you a good friend and have appreciated your support since I began blogging. I have no doubt in your belief in the Lord and His Restored Gospel. From reading the comments, you have been a great support to many. I am sure that both they and the Lord will be there for you and Connie as you so need.
God bless.
I'm lds. Your blog is helping me make sense of it all. I hope things went well tonight.
ReplyDeleteHi Rock,
ReplyDeleteJust recently, within the past 3 months, I came to the point where I was going to leave the church. I was sick of the cultural norms masquerading as truth. I felt my progression was at a stand still by following the crowd, doing what I was told, and blindly falling in line. Your blog opened up a new understanding for me. My eyes were opened to truths I had never heard of. I realized there was more out there than what I had been taught. This was very liberating for me.
Thank You
I didnt finish my posting .. My gadget stopped working. Anyway what i was about to say was i only discovered these things after actions at church were out of keeping with what i knew... And being a lover of the gospel i had devoured all histories, writings, articles, scriptures etc etc that i could just from pure love, and defended the church against haters ... But when this thing happened i had to ask God to show me and this is the thing, unless you ask the right questions and are ready for those answers, no answer comes because God knows when we are ready and we are ready when we ask the right questions.
ReplyDeleteSeems my previous words vanished lol .. Well im an lds member from England, have been a member 30 years. I have researched the same things as you, around the same time.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts are these:- when i was baptised, i did it to be forgiven of my sins and to be associated with a good bunch of people. I had testimony of joseph smith and the book of mormon. In 2004 i had revelation that at a future date i would have certain things made understood to me. In 2012 those answers came.
What is important to me is to treat others how we want to be treated, and to also follow the still small voice.
The still small voice was telling me that Joseph Smith was telling the truth, and that Emma was his only wife.
Once i had that revelation i opened my eyes to find the defence of this revelation and was bowled over by my findings. Even the fact i had neglected Emma and her children in my heart as i had been raised in the church to shun them as they had left the church. What i learnt as i studied was completely different from what i had been taught. Dumbfounded!
ReplyDeleteJoseph Smith 3rd went to Utah and interviewed every woman associated with his father and spoke to every one who had a story to tell ... He just wanted to hear for himself. Not one person was able to pin anything on Joseph Smith. Whatever it was, it wasnt plurality of wives.
I was shocked also to read the court case of the Temple Lot. Being devout, i have been waiting for the temple to be built that jesus has been renouned to return to.. I wondered about what waa happening about the land and how it was not in the hands of the church.
The court case ruled that Brigham Young had changed the teachings of the church so much, that it was basically a different church ... And no woman was able to prove she was a wife of joseph and entitled to it so the temple lot was deemed the rightful ownership of Joseph smith 3rd
I have more i know, but would just like to say that before joseph smith estsblished the church, he was a methodist because he just wanted to be associated with a church... There it is. Having found out for myself that the lds church leadership went astray but the goodness of thr righteous people in it from josephs day has carried it til now, i know of no better church to be a part of. I would prefer for the church to admit the coverups in history but so much has been done im guessing its all too embarrassing. We are like people rowing upon the ocean in small boats, looking for the shore of truth and when we find it, we will all rejoice together but for now the lds church is our ocean.
ReplyDeleteFor those thrilled by revelation from joseph juniors days, try reading the history of the lds church written by the rlds church ... You will feel the thrill again of reading revelation that is filled with the spirit ... So refreshing and utterly lacking after 1844 but you will feel the spirit in the revelation for at least a few decads more by reading it ... A joy and a sadness too as that source dwindled too. But we arent alone, and we are in heart preparing for our saviour and he will have a people waiting for we are his sheep (individually) and scattered upon the earth in various places but when he calls, we will recognise his voice :) here is where i spoil it and say fingers crossed lol but serioualy, i have had many sacred experiences and i have the lds church to thank for bringing me the message of jesus and teaching me to believe in prayer. We are not alone. :)
ReplyDeleteEven if the world were against you, but you are doing the work of God, peace be with you. I love your blogs. Thankyou for daring to point out what others havent yet figured out... Everyone has there time for there eyes to be open. I put my fingers in my ears to people trying to alert me to truths for 30 years ... So dont worry what people say or think now. You are being the lone voice but others will be joining you and something big is going to hapoen. In a dream i had, a huge tree with out branches or root, fell squarely on my bishops house ... The truth is going to get out and its better to be proactively alerting people so they are woken up a bit before the whole things falls flat on top of them. And even if the church leadership is false, the xhurch itself had the priesthood and goodness from before, you cant stop goodness as long as there are good living.
ReplyDeleteJesus be with you. Keep it up.
Even if the world were against you, but you are doing the work of God, peace be with you. I love your blogs. Thankyou for daring to point out what others havent yet figured out... Everyone has there time for there eyes to be open. I put my fingers in my ears to people trying to alert me to truths for 30 years ... So dont worry what people say or think now. You are being the lone voice but others will be joining you and something big is going to hapoen. In a dream i had, a huge tree with out branches or root, fell squarely on my bishops house ... The truth is going to get out and its better to be proactively alerting people so they are woken up a bit before the whole things falls flat on top of them. And even if the church leadership is false, the xhurch itself had the priesthood and goodness from before, you cant stop goodness as long as there are good living.
ReplyDeleteJesus be with you. Keep it up.
Thanks for your reading tips. About the Parallel D&C: it seems that right now Benchmark has still one copy for sale(on Amazon), but Amazon and Abebook still have enough copies from other booksellers, for a higher price though. I found out that not all sellers on Amazon could ship to a destination outside the USA. Benchmark did not; that's funny, that never happened to me before. Anyway I received mine just today, and I found it very useful.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing this video! I wish you to promote your channel and advise you to buy youtube subscribers for it
ReplyDelete