tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post9005189187549631415..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Reinventing Your SundaysAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger174125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90761031695741490332023-01-28T00:00:21.398-08:002023-01-28T00:00:21.398-08:00Your "giving each other blessings" link ...Your "giving each other blessings" link above no longer works, but you can link it to here, (as I was able to find it):<br /><br />https://sunstone.org/rediscovering-the-legacy-of-mormon-midwives/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00045730627896254805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-76798891699203533202015-10-27T05:01:09.939-07:002015-10-27T05:01:09.939-07:00This is what you get when businessmen, bankers and...This is what you get when businessmen, bankers and lawyers are appointed in leadership positions instead of theologians. It is not a world religion that you get, but a multinational.<br />We have to find our own way, inside the church by lifting up others, promoting spiritually and true doctrine (as far as allowed), as well as outside the church by building up a little library and study, and taking an interesting podcast on a mp3 player when out for a good jogging. Never let things go just out of boredom.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-15010145384203614352015-01-28T08:44:24.389-08:002015-01-28T08:44:24.389-08:00My great-great grandfather, who never held formal ...My great-great grandfather, who never held formal ecclesiastical office, apparently had a gift for giving inspirational sermons. Brigham Young appointed him to be a regular speaker at local church meetings. Essentially, Brother Brigham asked him to be a preacher even though he wasn't in a bishopric or stake presidency. My understanding is that sacrament meeting back then was not necessarily held every Sunday, but was held at the discretion of the local bishop. Going to sacrament meeting was simply referred to as "going to meeting".sillydognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38983105118020209972014-12-22T10:11:36.796-08:002014-12-22T10:11:36.796-08:00John Cato,
The problem seems to be that our respec...John Cato,<br />The problem seems to be that our respective branches of the church, whether the LDS or the RLDS, have put too much emphasis on "who has the authority?"<br /><br />When we let go of trying to figure out which leaders are true, and focus instead only on the revealed word of God, we can reconcile all the nonsense because then we realize that the so-called "leaders" simply are not relevant.<br /><br />It's the gospel that is true, and that's where our focus should be. Not on any claims to authority. men will diddle with the policies and ordinances. Let them. <br /><br />And then ignore them and follow Christ.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-89859148823663993312014-12-21T08:08:52.522-08:002014-12-21T08:08:52.522-08:00Rock,
Help me out. I agree with your comments and ...Rock,<br />Help me out. I agree with your comments and am frustrated. My entire family converted to LDS church in 1987 from the RLDS after weathering so many of their doctrinal changes and denials of "pure" Mormonism. Then within a couple of years of going to the temple, here it came again. Changes to the endowment. I began studies and found change after change. I feel I am living through the same things all over again. I love the Book of Mormon and what the Lord attempted through Joseph Smith. How can I go through this all over again?<br /><br />John CatoJohnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-55215111065958910042013-12-30T00:37:24.418-08:002013-12-30T00:37:24.418-08:00What kind of background are you seeing? This is on...What kind of background are you seeing? This is on a pure white background.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32725168440428250132013-12-29T21:09:20.875-08:002013-12-29T21:09:20.875-08:00I love this site, but can you please change the ba...I love this site, but can you please change the background? It is very hard to read the print with the current background.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2543064481834644622013-12-09T14:16:17.818-08:002013-12-09T14:16:17.818-08:00The spirit is not in the church anymore because it...The spirit is not in the church anymore because it is not the Lord's church anymore. John Taylor said that one day the priesthood would be more of a cursing to the church than a blessing because they had denied the new and everlasting covenant. Amen to the priesthood that once was in the church. The church wants your tithing and is running the church that way. It is not about saving your soul or helping you to find true joy. It is about paying tithing and keeping you ignorant of the teachings of the earlier prophets so you don't wake up and start demanding pure Mormonism to come back. I haven't felt the spirit in the church for a long time. That is not a coincidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65672183617309923032013-10-04T11:22:18.124-07:002013-10-04T11:22:18.124-07:00Wow, couldn't agree more. I have always been ...Wow, couldn't agree more. I have always been boooooooooooooored at church (and I'm close to 40 now). I've tried to get more out of it, prayed to stay focused and learn, but I always zone out. Lately my wife and I skip out after sacrament and head home. Then we 'reinvent' our Sunday and strengthen our marital relationship. Then we go back and pick up the kids (kind of feel guilty when they have to stay). Luckily the kids haven't asked what we learned it church yet :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2328268601649278462013-05-24T17:15:01.532-07:002013-05-24T17:15:01.532-07:00John,
I'm sure that BY would not mind at all...John, <br /><br />I'm sure that BY would not mind at all if Joseph was a whoremaster like himself, for it would help ease his conscience somewhat, for misery loves company. Devils want everyone to be and do like them.<br /><br />But I believe Joseph told the truth, that he didn't practice polygamy and I believe Brigham Young knew it and thus didn't like Joseph, nor did Joseph appear to like or respect Brigham Young in his later years. I believe Joseph was about to excommunicate Brigham and Brigham probably knew it.<br /><br />And what is the worth of never losing interest in Mormonism if it's not true? <br /><br />Best to embrace 'Christ' and his doctrines only, and then we will never lose interest in him, even if the whole church is led astray, as it appears it has been.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-8874602822209446372013-05-24T17:05:58.569-07:002013-05-24T17:05:58.569-07:00Miriam,
If people were to get up in testimony mee...Miriam,<br /><br />If people were to get up in testimony meeting and speak the real truth about the Church and it's doctrines and practices that are completely contrary to Christ's teachings, I seriously doubt they would be allowed to ever finish their testimony, even though it was all completely true.<br /><br />Most members and leaders have not studied the truth about the Church and it's history and doctrine, and probably don't want to know the truth, for blind obedience and playing 'follow the leader' is so much easier, then standing for the right.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65303402425409506232013-05-24T04:11:31.428-07:002013-05-24T04:11:31.428-07:00Your response made me very happy. The Church is tr...Your response made me very happy. The Church is true as well as the doctrines. If people are some how dissatisfied, they will always find fault.<br />Miriam Feldstein Case<br />Campton, NHmiriam Casehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16435615647532595786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5002734332431761512013-05-24T03:58:53.991-07:002013-05-24T03:58:53.991-07:00How can you state that " there is no place to...How can you state that " there is no place to express your beliefs." Don't you have testimony meetings the first Sunday of the month? I know the truth and express it almost every fast and testimony meeting, gospel doctrine class, and in Relief Society.<br /><br />Miriam Feldstein Case<br />Campton, NHmiriam Casehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16435615647532595786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43451777191792429302013-05-24T03:43:46.642-07:002013-05-24T03:43:46.642-07:00I am sorry that you don't seem to understand ...I am sorry that you don't seem to understand my religion. Maybe Western LDS are different than those on the East coast, and many nations around the world. Of course your daughters are bored, etc., they are teens. That is how they behave. Also, your distain of The Church is felt by them.<br />Our meetings are very spiritual, we enjoy our times together, and learn a lot. No, I am not a new member. I was baptized in 1965.<br /><br />Miriam Feldstein Case<br />Campton, NH<br />miriam Casehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16435615647532595786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57488611532585432612013-02-16T01:33:16.602-08:002013-02-16T01:33:16.602-08:00I understand the need for condensing meetings as t...I understand the need for condensing meetings as the church became global and many people lived in areas where it was ridiculous to gather several times a day/week. Still, something died in that transition. <br /><br />We are often required to be reverent--no chatting or visiting in the chapel. In fact, we are asked to be in our seat & listen to prelude music for 5-10 minutes prior to sacrament meeting starting, to prepare us. For...??? <br /><br />I miss the vibrancy and joy of living out loud in the Love of Christ. As a people who are supposed to have the most Truth about the Good News, we -seem- to be not terribly happy about it. I look around at a room full of people who look like they've been sucking on pickles. Not because they -don't- believe, but because there is no place to express it, to worship, to relish.<br /><br />As a temp sub for a teen class, I shared the message of the song below, and they started to fall in love with the Light of Christ that IS them. They cried when the "real" teacher came back a couple weeks later. After that I was put in the nursery where it was "safer" for me. Irony abounds!<br /><br />Jason Gray--More Like Falling In Love<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHfUQzb5Q3Y<br /><br />Give me rules, I will break them<br />Show me lines, I will cross them<br />I need more than a truth to believe<br />I need a truth that lives, moves, and breathes<br />To sweep me off my feet<br /><br />It's gotta be more like falling in love<br />Than something to believe in<br />More like losing my heart<br />Than giving my allegiance<br />Caught up, called out<br />Come take a look at me now<br />It's like I'm falling, oh<br />It's like I'm falling in love<br /><br />Give me words, I'll misuse them<br />Obligations, I'll misplace<br />'Cause all religion ever made of me<br />Was just a sinner with a stone<br />Tied to my feet<br />It never set me free<br /><br />It's gotta be more like falling in love<br />Than something to believe in<br />More like losing my heart<br />Than giving my allegiance<br />Caught up, called out<br />Come take a look at me now<br />It's like I'm falling, oh<br />[ From: http://www.elyrics.net]<br />It's like I'm falling in<br /><br />Love, love, love<br />Deeper and deeper<br />It was love that made me a believer<br />In more than a name, a faith, a creed<br />Falling in love with Jesus brought the change in me<br /><br />It's gotta be more like falling in love<br />Than something to believe in<br />More like losing my heart<br />Than giving my allegiance<br />Caught up, called out<br />Come take a look at me now<br />It's like I'm falling, oh<br />It's like I'm falling<br /><br />It's gotta be more like falling in love<br />Than something to believe in<br />More like losing my heart<br />Than giving my allegiance<br />Caught up, called out<br />Come take a look at me now<br />It's like I'm falling, oh<br />It's like i'm falling in love<br /><br />(It's like I'm falling)<br />I'm falling in love<br />(It's like I'm falling)<br /><br />Songwriter(s): Jason Ingram<br />Copyright: Sony/Atv Timber Publishing, Windsor Hill Music, West Main MusicDorothynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26866322560975956382013-01-17T12:23:49.182-08:002013-01-17T12:23:49.182-08:00You guys should ask to be in the Primary. Since &...You guys should ask to be in the Primary. Since "being called" (I begged, sent emails, and used every contact in my phone to "get called") to teach the Sunbeams, and now CTR 4, I honestly love coming to church. And I totally feel the Spirit when we are in our Sunday School class. And I mean EVERY Sunday. It is awesome. Although, if you want to experience that, you can do it with any children Mormon, or not, but at least we get to read from the Book of Mormon too :) When I was attending Gospel Doctrine class I wanted to poke my eyes out with a dull pencil. (But I didn't thanks to my husband, and John who would make amazing comments teach the same things that these blogs present to us) By the way, I wouldn't understand or know how to seek for truth if it wasn't for a seminary teacher that despite what she was taught to do, taught us the TRUTH. She was fired for doing this, but I still go to her house on Sundays with my husband to study the scriptures. So the church might be corrupt, but to all those who know the truth, keep teaching. There are people like me there on Sundays listening, and feeling the Spirit, even if you are just making comments in class :) rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-89169796233907440252012-10-08T20:40:57.724-07:002012-10-08T20:40:57.724-07:00Jed and Lizzy,
I am quite the fan of Denver Snuffe...Jed and Lizzy,<br />I am quite the fan of Denver Snuffer, but have only read a fraction of his writings, so I don't know first hand about his views on church attendance. (I am just now reading one of his books, "Passing the Heavenly Gift" and it is a treasure trove of information.)<br /><br />I sure can't disagree with anyone who recommends attending church for the fellowship if nothing else. Associating with fellow believers is very important. It's the main thing church is for.<br /><br />But if one is attending out of a sense of obligation, or because they believe that is what they "should" be doing, it may be time for a bit of circumspection. Meantime, if you can hack it, attending church is a very good idea if only as a means of nurturing friendship with your fellow saints. So I'm all for it, although I find the boredom rather rough sledding personally.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-25415062325428408532012-10-08T18:41:51.807-07:002012-10-08T18:41:51.807-07:00Love this post. Love all your posts. Hope to wor...Love this post. Love all your posts. Hope to work my way through them all. Have been praying for you and Connie in your trials with health and your car. Blessings to you both. I am interested what you think of people like Denver Snuffer who hold similar views but encourage members to retain their membership and fellowship weekly with the saints in the 3-hour block - out of duty I suppose. I am a 32-year-old lifelong member. Have been searching and awakening for 12 years. Have been shocked with reality the past 2 years. And I have a hard time meeting with the saints and enjoying any of it at this time. I crave deep spiritual discussion, openness to learning more, and others who desire to progress and come to the Lord. I wish my ward was 12 people or so. I am still learning much and my husband is awakening as well. Sacrament at home...now that is something I hadn't considered and something that sounds just perfect.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14202912310158630136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14621179884422165132012-02-16T01:46:42.105-08:002012-02-16T01:46:42.105-08:00Too true, but in my opinion an emotional reaction ...Too true, but in my opinion an emotional reaction of any kind is preferable to the big pile of nothing most members get from their Sunday meeting attendance.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-6657705630153673182012-02-15T21:26:37.946-08:002012-02-15T21:26:37.946-08:00Interesting bit. Variation on a recurring theme. ...Interesting bit. Variation on a recurring theme. The thing with "worship" and "feeling the spirit" is they're too intangible to mean much more than congregation A does something differently than congregation B. When people say they aren't feeling the spirit in Sacrament Meeting or we don't "worship" what I hear is that they aren't getting a visceral emotional reaction (I'll not say "warm fuzzy" to avoid the flying monkeys) of the same sort I can get from a good night at the theater or the symphony. That creates it's own quandaries -- let's conduct a nice round of emotional manipulation, then pass the plate!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29174487843350894432011-06-01T15:19:26.222-07:002011-06-01T15:19:26.222-07:00@whitehusky://Just get on the Internet and state t...@whitehusky://Just get on the Internet and state that Jesus is the Almighty God. You'll get a hoard of Mormons telling you that you're wrong, that you're not a Mormon because you're not stating Mormon doctrine. They can't object on the basis of scripture, since Jehovah is the Almighty [Gen. 17:1, D&C 84:96].//<br /><br />Just try telling that to a bunch of Evangelicals. Try to tell them that you believe in Jesus, that He is God, and that Mormons are saved through His grace. You'll get two reactions: one that, Praise the Lord, you finally got it, or, unfortunately more common, YOU can't be saved because Mormons believe in another, or a false Jesus. <br /><br />Well, after bashing my head time and again against this holier-than-thou, damned if I do, damned if I don't (as in condemned to hell)attitude, something finally snapped in me, to where I'm completely fed up with organized Christianity, and the Corporate Church, and I'm out. I'm going to follow my own path now, as a New Age Christian, where I can worship Jesus in my own way, love and serve according to my own conscience and talents, and enjoy the books of different religious groups and philosophers without the insistence that there is ONLY one true book, or ONE True Church. <br /><br />An interesting thing happened recently, after being bashed on one of the so-called "ministries to Mormons" no matter how many times I tried to explain that Mormons can be saved by Jesus, through grace. I was struck by the complete absence of the Spirit, and I had to get out of there. <br /><br />I went over to the Unity web site and read a few prayers and affirmations, and a few inspirational articles. Then I went over to the New Age Christian-Zenism facebook group, and read their uplifting,loving,and joyous affirmations,and reminders to pray for the people of Joplin,MO. In both of those places,I felt Peace, Joy, and Love. I felt the Spirit of God. <br /><br />And yet those same Bible-pounding Mormon bashers, and I suppose even some Mormons, would say New Agers are from the devil. I just don't get it. How can the gifts of the Spirit be from the devil? <br /><br />Anyway, the conclusion I'm coming to is that the over-emphasis on the devil and hell-fire is just a way to control people,and to keep them coming to church to keep those collection plates full. Mormons don't have that threat to keep them in place, they have silly rules and regulations, and authority figures that tell them what to eat and drink (or they can't participate in the higher teachings), what to wear,what movies they can or cannot watch, even what they can or cannot do in their own bedrooms, even when they are married! <br /><br />The Corporate Church, as we have learned on this blog, and as so many of us have discovered for ourselves, is destroying the spirit, or at least disabling it, much the same way we can disable different applications that are interfering with programs we are trying to run on our computers. Maybe it is time to disable and quarantine the virus that the Corporate Church has become.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09645552425602146108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65181286840468293952011-05-29T10:08:07.559-07:002011-05-29T10:08:07.559-07:00You've written in your past postings of your i...You've written in your past postings of your irritation with fellow members who exclude children of God from worship or make them feel uncomfortable or less than due to thier own shortcomings, prejudices etc and it is duplicitous for you to state that the most elect of us all - the children - should have a separate place in our weekly communion with one another and the Lord.<br /><br />I have been in the temple when children arrive for eternal ordinances to be performed. They are rightfully welcomed as honored guests that we must all emulate. They are the example behind no other but Christ.<br /><br />I have a grown man in my ward with Downs syndrome who lends so much to the spirit of each meeting with what Mike would call outbursts and would surely feel the need to shush him so he could concentrate with his "take an old cold tater and wait" mindset.<br /><br />I would reference Kung Fu Panda 2 once more :) as Po struggles throughout the movie to master inner peace, it comes at the loudest time when all about him is on fire. Your own demons do not respond to ambience. It is more about humility, love, acceptance, letting go of the need to control circumstances that when all is said and done are not in your ability to control. The master is at the helm and we all need to just relax.Sunbeamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91348770529318032152011-05-29T09:50:54.525-07:002011-05-29T09:50:54.525-07:00Oh I beg to differ Rock. As the sons of Mosiah wen...Oh I beg to differ Rock. As the sons of Mosiah went about spreading the word of God and re-establishing His church throughout the land they were clear (as it has always been) that we should gather together as children of God on "behalf of the welfare of the souls of those who knew not God."<br />None were "deprived of the privilege of assembling themselves together" and scripture references no division in this constant instruction to "assemble together."<br /><br />You vacillate as you at once state that you/Mike are not trying to communicate "ie shove the children away so we can hold church in peace... BUT ...communion with God requires we quiet our minds and remove distractions so that we can commune with God."<br /><br />Mike states this feeling that kids should be "in the nursery so people can quietly meditate on Christ instead of being distracted because they're forever shushing their children.”Sunbeamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-47854661557253268872011-05-29T04:05:44.687-07:002011-05-29T04:05:44.687-07:00I agree with you completely, Sunbeam, that we are ...I agree with you completely, Sunbeam, that we are best served when we become as little children before God. Unless we disburse all prejudice and pre-conceived notions and judgments about others, we cannot be accepting or forgiving.<br /><br />I took your comment to assume that Mike preferred not to have children around him at church, and that I had come around to that way of thinking, i.e. shove the children away so we can hold church in peace.<br /><br />That's not what either Mike nor I was trying to communicate. But, just as there are times that it is not appropriate to include our children when we are "communing" with our spouse, so ther are also times when communion with God requires we quiet our minds and remove distractions so that we can commune with God.<br /><br />At such times, children are better served, as are we, when they are allowed to attend their own classes. Loving your children does not mean they must be on your lap at all times.<br /><br />Again, there are times to be intimate and spiritual with your child, and there are times when children are a distraction. I see nothing wrong with setting the children down while a portion of church to takes place with fellow grownups. I do not advocate keeping the children separate during church all the time.<br /><br />That's why the fellowship portion of church should include families together. That is where children and church are a good mix.<br /><br />But not during communion or meditation. The child does not get anything out of it, and neither does the adult.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-15962677236009949692011-05-29T00:21:01.048-07:002011-05-29T00:21:01.048-07:00I have no idea why my comment brought you to reply...I have no idea why my comment brought you to reply regarding an intimacy with your wife in it's relationship to intimacy with a child.<br />I fail to grasp the point you're attempting to make.<br /><br />It sounds in this reply as if you are of a mind to have children become as us "natural men" who are an enemy to God rather than do as the Lord has instructed, that we ourselves strive to become as little children.<br /><br />Children are without guile, have no malice and their innocence allows them to commune quite readily with the Lord anytime, anyplace as we should strive to do.<br /><br />The reverent manner of worship we model for our children is a display of love. This love invites all as we commune one with another and serve one another remembering always we are one in Christ our Lord.Sunbeamnoreply@blogger.com