tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post8662778976353262188..comments2024-03-26T21:27:42.278-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Know Your ReligionAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger318125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13756942380571303292015-03-28T18:04:35.663-07:002015-03-28T18:04:35.663-07:00Oh, Absolutely, Mike! Paul has had a firm grip on ...Oh, Absolutely, Mike! Paul has had a firm grip on all this for decades; it's just new to me and I haven't wrapped my mind around it all, that's all.<br /><br />See also the book he and Margaret wrote, "Strangers in Paradox." It's out of print, but SignatureBooks.com has posted all the chapters on its website. I believe they go deeper into the subject there, as well as covering a lot of other LDS theology.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91670878404178834002015-03-28T18:00:57.958-07:002015-03-28T18:00:57.958-07:00Thank you Mr. Waterman.
But you do think Mr. Tosc...Thank you Mr. Waterman.<br /><br />But you do think Mr. Toscano has some understanding, and you would still recommend his book?<br /><br />It is worth reading, isn't it?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649779689191564134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27070511414093327582015-03-28T08:38:51.018-07:002015-03-28T08:38:51.018-07:00Mike Burke,
MY understanding of the nature of God...Mike Burke, <br />MY understanding of the nature of God is spotty and incomplete. That's why I enjoy reading the views of others.<br /><br />Believe me, you don't want to look to me for guidance. I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to the greater mysteries.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-71626938158938051142015-03-27T01:05:31.796-07:002015-03-27T01:05:31.796-07:00I just ordered Mr. Toscano's book.
Thank you ...I just ordered Mr. Toscano's book.<br /><br />Thank you again Mr. Waterman.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649779689191564134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87070909309359846402015-03-27T00:06:22.919-07:002015-03-27T00:06:22.919-07:00Rock (Mr. Waterman): Thanks for your review of Mr....Rock (Mr. Waterman): Thanks for your review of Mr. Toscano's book. I really found this interesting. <br /><br />"If, however, the phrase means that Christ as the Father was conceived by no power outside his own, then this verse tells us that Christ as Father had no progenitor, but was the uncreated and pre-existed creation as the self-existent divine Supreme Being."<br /><br />Something about that makes sense to me.<br /><br />I can see how the details could get complicated, but Mr. Toscano is saying that there is a "self-existent divine Supreme Being"?<br /><br />And you agree with him?<br /><br />That alone makes you two of the most interesting Mormons I've encountered in my investigation of the Restoration, and I wish you could share more of your understanding of the nature of God here.<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07649779689191564134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5450666114815976452015-03-25T17:23:50.470-07:002015-03-25T17:23:50.470-07:00I'm glad you're doing better Rock. I noti...I'm glad you're doing better Rock. I noticed you were asked about my book, but its tough to give a review on something you haven't read. I could tell because there was at least one item you mentioned that wasn't in my book! Nor did you mention any specifics. I appreciate your reading the blog, but that doesn't mean you know much at all about the content of my book. (Especially since I go through several re writes, peer reviews, and edits before it gets published.)<br /><br />Luckily several recent reviews have come out from people who have read it: <br />http://www.modernmormonmen.com/2015/03/you-dont-know-shiz-about-book-of-mormon.html<br /><br />http://michaelrcollings.blogspot.com/2015/03/morgan-deane-bleached-bones-and-wicked.html<br /><br />And at the bottom of this page: http://www.amazon.com/Bleached-Bones-Wicked-Serpents-Ancient/dp/1456622862/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427218183&sr=8-1&keywords=bleached+bones+and+wicked+serpents<br /><br />You said that understanding a person is sometimes the best for which you can hope. I agree. That process only starts though with interested parties at least reading reviews from people who have read the book, and in best cases have serious and substantive discussions after reading a person's research. <br /><br />Best wishes. Morgan Deanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09480320552458246756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-7814471423226133042015-03-24T13:09:41.982-07:002015-03-24T13:09:41.982-07:00It strikes me that while these works may have valu...It strikes me that while these works may have value (most especially to the author and his kin) they may perpetuate the cause of problems with the modern church. Our relationship with our heavenly father is A<->B there is no middle man. He speaks to us through scripture (pure doctrine, not what passes for it) and we speak to him through prayer. We do not need an advocate to hear him or speak to him, and seeking one means we will at best hear a skewed truth. It is so simple and we make it so hard. Bend a knee, open you heart, and speak to God as a loving father who desperately wants to hear from you just as badly (at least) as you want to hear from him. <br /><br />A foolish man seeks Knowledge, a wise man seeks UnderstandingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-74718336218551228182015-03-19T14:21:48.412-07:002015-03-19T14:21:48.412-07:00I should add that that link was made available on ...I should add that that link was made available on the website defendingjoseph.com.<br /><br />It's a very OLD source; a 1969 master's thesis by Library Science MA Enid Stubbart DeBarthe. I don't know how much stylometric analysis has changed since then; it could be that current formulas wouldn't reach the same result. But the linguistic analysis itself is certainly sound. Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13905411331522005879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2980923163628963742015-03-19T14:06:43.729-07:002015-03-19T14:06:43.729-07:00Sure, Rock. I thought I had included the link, but...Sure, Rock. I thought I had included the link, but apparently I forgot:<br /><br />https://www.dropbox.com/s/sdqf2jfwp26wqck/LDS%20D%26C%20132%20Writing%20Style%20Analysis%20by%20Enid%20DeBarthe.pdf?dl=0Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13905411331522005879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57094563956623794932015-03-19T13:20:21.879-07:002015-03-19T13:20:21.879-07:00Annie, can you provide a link to that stylometric ...Annie, can you provide a link to that stylometric analysis? A reader on another post here has asked for information on any scholarly analysis on the authorship of section 132, but in my fog I just can't remember where I've seen one.<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59513172157367384932015-03-19T11:21:45.676-07:002015-03-19T11:21:45.676-07:00Regarding @I. Willet deVale 's comment about S...Regarding @I. Willet deVale 's comment about Section 132:<br /><br />I just found and read a stylometric analysis that, from my admittedly inexpert opinion, shows pretty darn convincingly that it was indeed written by Brigham Young. Or at the very least, that it's too different from Joseph's personal writings and the rest of D&C for him to have written it (or rather dictated it word-for-word, as William Clayton claimed).<br />Anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13905411331522005879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-83710335280859852032015-03-06T13:21:05.968-08:002015-03-06T13:21:05.968-08:00That having been said, if anyone out there DOES ha...That having been said, if anyone out there DOES have a spare junker they actually are not currently using, sure, we could put it to very good use, not only in ferrying ourselves, but our grown daughter whose children we tend to transport to where they need to go. So we would be happy to have the loan of someone's extra car if you are not currently using it and would graciously accept such a gift with gratitude and thanksgiving. Otherwise, God seems to be assuring me that he will help us manage for now. I don't feel any fear over this anymore. My feeling is that God has something in the works to provide transportation for us, and it may well be someone will come along with another beater for us to use, or maybe some other solution. The other day I was on the phone with a friend and he expressed to me that he was given that specific prompting as well; that I shouldn't worry, that God will be providing a way for us to replace our broken car with another. So expect all will be well.<br /><br />Be assured that none of this will keep us from coming to the Remnant Reunion in Colorado in May. At the very time I was first invited to attend that function, someone miraculously offered to provide us with the cost of gas to get there, (we would not have been able to afford such a trip on our own). Yesterday I was able to negotiate the use of a rental car for only 18 dollars a day with free miles. So that's still on. We wouldn't miss that event if I had to walk all the way, pushing Connie in her wheelchair ahead of me.<br /><br />In fact, when I got the news that my car was irreparable, I was confused as to why such a catastrophe would befall us with Colorado only three months away. I expressed my frustration to the Lord and got the immediate impression that this was God's way of warning me NOT to take this car all the way from California to Colorado. Better the car broke down one half block from home as it did, than stranded somewhere in the Nevada desert.<br /><br />I have come to have explicit faith in God these days. So although I am very grateful for Linda's kind expression above, I want anyone who is concerned to know that we will be able to manage. <br /><br />I hope to write another blog post by next weekend, but this illness has put me in a perennial stupor and I just haven't felt smart or ambitious enough to get started on one. Connie and I are both extremely grateful for the many, many prayers that have gone up to heaven for our benefit. I have been told I did indeed come close to death this time, so for better or for worse, you people are directly credited with saving my life. Thank you.<br /><br />I am back among the living, and actually got on my bike the other day and rode a few blocks to the pharmacy, and though it wasn't easy after being weakened like I was, at least I know I am coming back to life.<br /><br />Thank you all, and God bless you.<br /><br />For those who feel inspired to contribute alms to those in need, please send your money to those who really need it:<br /><br />ProtoZion.comAlan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91847641260466926672015-03-06T13:18:04.020-08:002015-03-06T13:18:04.020-08:00(Continued)
Once a month we have to travel almost...(Continued)<br /><br />Once a month we have to travel almost to Placerville, about a 45 mile trip to have Connie's medtronic device refilled. This is a device that is embedded under her flesh and which shoots a bolus of pain reliever directly into her spine. It gets refilled by injection once a month, and it appears that's when we would require the rental of a Zip Car. Although I would have to take a couple of buses into Sacramento to pick up a Zip Car, it's do-able. I can pick up the car, return home to get Conne, take her out to that pain specialist, and get it all done for whatever it will cost to rent a car for two hours.<br /><br />As for other needs, I have saddle baskets on my bike and can get groceries and run errands myself that way. So we are not currently in emergency mode. We are able to manage.<br /><br />As grateful as I am for Linda's concern, the reason I am uncomfortable seeing someone announce that we have a need is because the biggest frustration I am experiencing right now is our inability to lend a hand to others more worthy and much more in need than we are. I would much prefer to be a giver myself than to continue to be on the receiving end of charity.<br /><br />I see notices from ProtoZion.com requesting assistance for those who are in real, immediate needs of basics like rent, food, and beds for their children, and in the situation we currently find ourselves, we are helpless to assist them. That's what I'd do with any extra funds if I had them, I'd give them to others. So I hope the rest of you will look to those more in need than we are. We are not that bad off in comparison.<br /><br />(Continued below)Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-24121113785204165772015-03-06T13:15:31.295-08:002015-03-06T13:15:31.295-08:00Although I am recovering nicely from my recent bou...Although I am recovering nicely from my recent bout with the grim reaper, I have not checked back here regularly as I usually do. I was here only long enough to delete the posts from our perennial troll, and I was puzzled by his accusations comparing me to Korihor, who was reduced to going door to door begging for food. I hadn't the slightest idea what motivated those comments, but I delete his comments as a matter of course, and didn't give them any further thought. I've now seen the commment from Linda from March 1st, which solves the riddle.<br /><br />I will admit to being a little uncomfortable upon reading Linda's Call for Assistance on announcing that our car is kaput and asking if anyone had a spare they could provide us with.<br /><br />I suppose what I'm really feeling is embarrassment. I've just gotten off the phone with Linda thanking her for her concerns, but I confess also to feeling a little embarrassment. Not because of what she wrote, but because of the way I fear some folks might read her concern. Almost three years ago, several readers to this blog already came to our rescue when the junker we were driving then went kablooie from the same disease as our current one-a blown head gasket (what is it about me and head gaskets?!). The last thing I want is to appear to be putting out another, similar call for help, as though somehow it is expected that my readers rescue us from the same dilemma once again. I am grateful to Linda for her kind concern, but we seek no such thing for ourselves.<br /><br />Our current car was 27 years old and served us well for nearly three years, so we can't complain. The one we had before was an old one near its time, but it lasted five or more years, and was also worth the little bit of money it cost us ($1600.00 -a bargain for the amount of use we got from it.) That's just the way it goes with older cars. We don't expect them to last forever.<br /><br />Now I'll admit, upon finding out we were once again without transportation, I immediately went through a day or two trying not to worry about what we would do next; but then the fog lifted and I got the distinct feeling through the spirit that we will be able to manage this time as well. <br /><br />The reason we only HAVE to have a car at all is because Connie has constant and varied medical appointments she needs to get to. We don't need a car every single day; just most days. Anyway, these days we have access to Uber and Zip Car, services that were not available before, so I've started looking into whether those will work for us, and I think they will, at least for the time being. Next week Connie has an appointment with one doctor who is only five miles up the street, so I think we can handle that one through Uber, where in the past the cost of a taxi would have been prohibitive. (Unfortunately, there is no one in the ward we can ask for a ride; I am persona non grate there.)<br /><br />(Continued below)Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27894496757838459182015-03-03T19:53:39.757-08:002015-03-03T19:53:39.757-08:00Well, I'm not entirely sure it would be a soun...Well, I'm not entirely sure it would be a sound principle to engage in a course of action with the intent to displease Friar Tuck.<br /><br />That would seem to break the Golden Rule.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30601231536787305402015-03-03T08:36:24.630-08:002015-03-03T08:36:24.630-08:00I check in here from time to time and, especially ...I check in here from time to time and, especially just lately, every post appears to be about Friar Tuck in some way. <br />Would this not please him? Robin Hoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-15551785761977797252015-03-02T04:39:44.236-08:002015-03-02T04:39:44.236-08:00Correction, The comment at 8:43 attributed to me i...Correction, The comment at 8:43 attributed to me is a fake; I accidentally wrote 8:45. It is 8:43.<br /><br />Log has hit the nail on the head. Friar Tuck is obviously motivated only by pure hatred for Rock. Everything he pretends about championing the Church has now been exposed as a lie. He has no agenda other than a personal vendetta against the author of this blog.<br /><br />There are ways to track him down from your end to determine the URL he has been writing from, and I can assist you with that. He has left quite a trail over the past year or more that will provide plenty of proof, and now that he has used another person's username in a deliberate attempt to defame by fraud, he can be prosecuted. I say we go after him and end this once and for all. We also know he is one of your Facebook "friends" as he has has been stalking you on that forum following threads under your name and repeating your comments on other forums. <br /><br />I will be emailing you privately to help get you started.<br />Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86578291298035571152015-03-02T04:22:02.891-08:002015-03-02T04:22:02.891-08:00Rock,
The last two comments attributed to my name ...Rock,<br />The last two comments attributed to my name were NOT writtten by me, but obviously by Friar Tuck. Please delete them.<br /><br />The one at 8:20 PM was lifted word for word from ACLU.org. I'm sure you can tell the comment at 8:45 is obviously a fake just from its contents.<br /><br /><br /><br />Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-79103941872954107882015-03-01T21:23:26.965-08:002015-03-01T21:23:26.965-08:00@Friar Tuck,
I don't understand. You're ...@Friar Tuck,<br /><br />I don't understand. You're not trying to score points with God, having accepted that you're going to hell, unless I mistake you, and you're not trying to score points with the Church - therefore, are you motivated purely out of spite for Rock?Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29583724912704339162015-03-01T20:43:54.036-08:002015-03-01T20:43:54.036-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39398869316517743862015-03-01T20:31:09.999-08:002015-03-01T20:31:09.999-08:00Rock,
You'll have to eliminate the Anonymous ...Rock,<br /><br />You'll have to eliminate the Anonymous AND Name/URL options.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-18289649915611973452015-03-01T20:20:32.817-08:002015-03-01T20:20:32.817-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5962425283009438802015-03-01T20:08:47.461-08:002015-03-01T20:08:47.461-08:00I suppose the fake Gaybob (cough cough *Friar Tuck...I suppose the fake Gaybob (cough cough *Friar Tuck*) feels that anyone who approaches his bishop for help with food from the storehouse is a Korihor. Isn't that begging? I've done that kind of begging, but it wasn't door to door, and it was not thought by anyone that I was not worthy to receive. Come to think of it, I don't recall Rock ever begging anyone to lend him a hand, whether door to door like Korihor, or on this blog. He has only taught the principal of giving to others. He has graciously accepted offers of help when they have been extended to him and his wife, but he has never asked for help outright. Rock is known for his generosity to others, and for teaching us about the joys of giving, not for having his own hand outstretched.<br /><br />Judging from the attitude his bishop has toward him, he can't even ask for food from the bishop's storehouse, knowing he is not considered a viable member in some eyes.<br /><br />I realize it isn't Christlike to say this about our visiting troll, but I'll keep saying it because I'm sick of his underhanded ways. Whatever name he chooses to adopt, Friar Tuck is very wicked, and he is a fool. May God have mercy when his time for judgment comes. He has piled upon himself sin after sin after sin, and he always does it thinking he is doing God a favor.<br /><br />Wouldn't want to be him at the judgment bar. He's in for an unhappy surprise.Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32318260993772499012015-03-01T19:53:52.383-08:002015-03-01T19:53:52.383-08:00Looks like our old nemesis Friar Tuck is becoming ...Looks like our old nemesis Friar Tuck is becoming more insidious than ever before. I Did NOT post that comment regarding Korihor at 6:42. Someone is using my identity to express views I do not agree with. <br /><br />Of course, the phony Gaybob Spongebath is trying to assert that anyone begging for food is an antiChrist, someone we know Rock is not, and neither were all the beggars who sat outside the temple in Jesus' day. Korihor brought some very bad luck upon himself. But not everyone who has bad luck is inherently bad.<br /><br />That's very poor arguing, but I suppose Friar Tuck has never been in need. When that day comes, and it comes to many of us, I wonder if he will suppose he brought that misfortune upon himself by fighting so viciously and wickedly against one of God's chosen. <br /><br />Rock, when you come back on here, you know what to do with that comment. It's a fake. Please delete it.Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86062172338010752512015-03-01T18:42:26.088-08:002015-03-01T18:42:26.088-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Gaybob Spongebathnoreply@blogger.com