tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post7945162309182635429..comments2024-03-26T21:27:42.278-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: The Best Conference Talk You Never ReadAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger188125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87871278962686696762018-03-19T00:08:39.111-07:002018-03-19T00:08:39.111-07:00https://youtu.be/FCu2Rm2TXQ4https://youtu.be/FCu2Rm2TXQ4Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13808580744992841034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5131317696121490632017-05-23T08:14:02.628-07:002017-05-23T08:14:02.628-07:00Lexi Johnson,
Original recordings of Poelman's...Lexi Johnson,<br />Original recordings of Poelman's talk exist, so we don't have to depend on anyone's hastily scribbled notes. You can watch it on the internet here:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcM7koDc-jg<br /><br />If you'll go back over my post, you'll see links that will take you to a side-by-side comparison of the original talk and the redo.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-20908530032250535032017-05-23T07:47:12.144-07:002017-05-23T07:47:12.144-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-45964896415541789002017-03-07T00:00:21.699-08:002017-03-07T00:00:21.699-08:00Where is the stuff that was there and ao many peop...Where is the stuff that was there and ao many people heard it, but then went back to read it again and read something different? And big differences or smal differences? <br />Also, how do we know what this talk originally said- it was people's notes, right? Like written notes? Where are those notes? Can we get some?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02821550781196644435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2767195367750261852017-03-06T23:38:16.662-08:002017-03-06T23:38:16.662-08:00What else have people seen in the available litera...What else have people seen in the available literature that has changed? Please stay neutral and respectful in your replies. For example: we grew up reading in the bible that Moses wrote on tablets. If you look at a bible today, any one of them in the world (KJV), it says tables. What other things have you seen in the church talks, conferences, and media that is RECOLLECTED differently than what is written on the current manuscript/digital copy? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02821550781196644435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80594295219135532352017-02-14T07:27:17.187-08:002017-02-14T07:27:17.187-08:00Holy crap! Miguel has probably either died of a he...Holy crap! Miguel has probably either died of a heart attack by now or was the biggest troll on the internet. I seriously hope that anyone who stumbles across these comments knows that he does not speak for God. Geez...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12411138799308644999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-25569612488184073022016-12-28T00:52:18.034-08:002016-12-28T00:52:18.034-08:00Thomas Paul,
So my question is this: If any man h...Thomas Paul, <br />So my question is this: If any man holds claim to the same gifts of prophet, seer, and revelator that we know Joseph Smith had (and we know Joseph Smith had those gifts because God told us so in numerous revelations); shouldn't we seek for evidence that the Lord Jesus Christ called that other man to that position and bestowed upon him those gifts he bestowed on Joseph Smith? Or is it sufficient that the members elect him by voting, and leave the Lord out of it? <br /><br />You quote from 2 Nephi 9:29 "But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God." <br /><br />Well, yeah. Need I remind you, Thomas, that I am the one in this conversation advocating hearkening unto the counsels of God, while you have taken the view that we should be hearkening unto the counsels of men? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you stress the importance of following the counsels of men, yet you quote scripture affirming my position that hearkening to the counsels of God is the way to go. One of us is confused.<br /><br />Our founding prophet taught "Where there is a prophet, a priest, or a righteous man unto whom God gives his oracles, there is the kingdom of God; and where the oracles are not, there the kingdom of God is not."<br /><br />But here you are saying that many of the revelations received by the prophet are meant "to take care of situations that constantly come up that [don't] need to be printed."<br /><br />So is Joseph Smith a liar? Is it okay for us NOT to receive the oracles because they are not important enough for us to know about? How about larger issues? Where are the revelations on those situations that constantly come up in these latter days that ARE important enough for us to read God's word on? Why are THOSE revelations not being published?<br /><br />If we receive not the oracles, how can we claim to be of the kingdom? A King who does not bother to speak to his subjects is a king who is absent, wouldn't you say? Do you really believe the Lord is giving His oracles to Thomas S. Monson on a regular basis and it's okay with the Lord if Monson chooses not to pass the oracles on to the world?<br /><br />I wrote a post titled "Where Did The Oracles Go?" Here it is:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2015/06/where-did-oracles-go.html<br /><br />I would appreciate if you would read that, and then explain to me how any revelation from God to his prophet is not important enough to be shared with the world -or at the very least, shared with the membership of the church. Joseph Smith received quite a number of revelations that we might consider instructions given to him alone, or to others within the leadership of the church. Yet God commanded they ALL be published and presented to the membership. Why? So the members could get a personal witness through the spirit that those revelations did indeed come from God. <br /><br />You say you have read many of the wise teachings of Hugh Nibley. I'm guessing you missed the many times he warned against Church management instituting policies and procedures absent God's authority. You might want to take a second look at Nibley's masterfully argued "Approaching Zion," which is mostly a thick diatribe against the very things you advocate in favor of.<br /><br />Finally you say to me, "to follow your teachings is apostasy." <br /><br />Well, you got that one right.<br /><br />As I said before, apostasy means to turn against one's religion. Anyone fool enough to abandon the doctrines of the Restoration -the teachings of Christ- and follow me instead would be an apostate of the first rank. Thankfully I don't know anyone who advocates following my teachings. If I met such a person I'd slap him upside the head and encourage him to get right, pronto. <br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-56962953539623513492016-12-28T00:51:42.348-08:002016-12-28T00:51:42.348-08:00Thomas Paul, I've been called a lot of nasty t...Thomas Paul, I've been called a lot of nasty things, but this is the second time I've been called an intellectual. The first time it was by someone who didn't know me, either. No one who knows me personally would ever throw that kind of accusation at me.<br /><br />You write, "You do not sustain the current leadership of the church because you have not sought for a witness that they are to be leaders." You say this with the assurance of someone who knows nothing about me.<br /><br />On the contrary, my friend, it was only when I finally sought for a witness of the spirit that I learned that no evidence existed that God had appointed those men to their positions. For years previously I had robotically sustained the leaders because I assumed by the time I was asked for that sustaining vote, some kind of ordination had already taken place behind the scenes. It was only AFTER I sought for a witness that I learned -through the spirit, mind you, preceded by intellectual inquiry regarding times, dates, and places- that no such ordinations had occurred going all the way back to Brigham Young. <br /><br />When a member of the First Presidency stands up in conference and says "it is proposed that we sustain Thomas S. Monson as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator," that is THE FIRST AND ONLY TIME Monson has ever been affirmed as such. There was no appointment from God that took place before that vote was asked for. The sustaining vote of the membership IS the procedure that gives the president the right to be called a prophet, seer, and revelator. God had no hand in the process. As you saw from reading the post I linked to above (you did read it, didn't you?), Gordon B. Hinckley refers to the sustaining by the members as the "proof" that he is what we say he is.<br /><br />Joseph F. Smith used the very same words that Hinckley used years later. When President Smith was cross-examined in court in an effort to ascertain the reason he was known as a prophet, seer, and revelator, he admitted he had never received a revelation from God, and that he had not been called of God to that office. "I am so sustained" was the reason he gave for going by that title. The members elected him prophet, seer, and revelator, you see. So a prophet, seer, and revelator he was. <br /><br />Warren Jeffs has the very same claim to being a prophet, seer, and revelator in his church as Thomas Monson has in ours: "The voice of the people." That's where it begins and ends.<br /><br />I say the title rings hollow unless God has weighed in.<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86793702629654358962016-12-27T17:05:55.900-08:002016-12-27T17:05:55.900-08:00I joined the church at age 19, and have been study...I joined the church at age 19, and have been studying the 'positive' writings of general authorities and wise men like Nibley for 50 years now. I have also read lots of anti-mormon literature. If you want to find problems you can find them. I choose to put the problems on the shelf and wait for an answer - and I have always received answers. There were people who found problems with Moses - and even Christ. That didn't stop Peter from saying, "Where shall we go - thou hast the words of eternal life."<br /><br />To follow your teachings is apostasy - because the Spirit says so. I follow Christ by following those He has asked me to follow that I have received a witness from the HOly Ghost that they are prophets. Instead of looking for minor flaws in the church and its leaders, and expounding those flaws to the world, we need to look for the wisdom and truth these men teach that teach us how to better come unto Christ. Thomas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27125372437024331822016-12-27T17:04:04.642-08:002016-12-27T17:04:04.642-08:0028 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vain...<br /> 28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.<br /><br /> 29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.<br /><br />If God does not want a member of the quorum of the twelve to be the prophet - they die. I suppose you could consider President Monson to be a lesser prophet as some have been categorized in the Old Testament. Perhaps at this time, the Lord does not need His prophet to declare some new thing by saying "Thus saith the Lord" I know this - President Monson is a better man than me or you and is a very righteous example of how to follow the Saviour. Actions can speak louder than words. <br /><br />I am sure the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve receive revelation in many of their meetings. This is not a small organization they are running. Much of the revelation they receive must be like what I have experienced in 3 bishoprics I have been in. Much revelation is to take care of situations that constantly come up that dosn't need to be printed. And much revelation is clarification on situations that have changed from one already in the Doctrine and Covenants which does not need to be printed again. <br /><br />President Monson is a prophet because He has an apostolic witness which neither you nor I have had. The witness I have had is that He is the Prophet on the earth today who speaks for the Saviour and you and I will be better men if we follow his example.<br />Thomas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-37043086974708749702016-12-27T17:02:34.436-08:002016-12-27T17:02:34.436-08:00Every person who has the testimony of Jesus is a p...Every person who has the testimony of Jesus is a prophet. I am a prophet. But I have not been called and sustained to sit with the 15 men at the head of the Saviour's church. And neither have you. <br /><br />You do not sustain the current leadership of the church because you have not sought for a witness that they are to be leaders. I would assume you have already ended your membership or have been excommunicated for apostasy. That could be what is fueling your research to find just the problems.<br /><br />Many people on your blog agree with some of the things you say. Most I would assume have been offended by a leader who did something that offended them. I have been offended, and certainly have been guilty of offending others. Elder Maxwell pointed out that in some ways that is the genius of the Lord's church. It requires us to learn to be humble and not be either offended or give offense - and if we give offense we need to apologize. It is not easy. <br /><br />Every apostle that has been called I have taken the time to find out from God if He has called that person as an apostle. It took me awhile with Elder Ballard. I just didn't like him, but after I humbled myself I learned once again from the HOly Ghost that he had been called to serve as an apostle.<br /><br />You're an intellectual, Rock - which I am not. I am sure you can out debate me any day. But I know when I feel the spirit and sadly you display a spirit of apostasy. Thomas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26800181016282577642016-12-27T13:22:06.372-08:002016-12-27T13:22:06.372-08:00Thomas Paul,
I'll help you with your search. ...Thomas Paul, <br />I'll help you with your search. I suggest it's not enough that we "sustain" the president of the Church as a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. I maintain that we must first have evidence that God Himself has affirmed him as such. We can call any man a prophet, seer, and revelator, but unless God has ordained him such, we're just giving a man a label.<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2015/08/how-we-know-thomas-monson-is-prophet.htmlAlan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-22295130711602104722016-12-27T13:15:51.031-08:002016-12-27T13:15:51.031-08:00Thomas Paul,
You are quoting the words of the Lord...Thomas Paul,<br />You are quoting the words of the Lord referring to specific men who the Lord had appointed: "if they will not hearken to my voice, nor unto the voice OF THESE MEN WHOM I HAVE APPOINTED." D&C 124 makes specific reference to the divine appointments of certain men, yet you are applying it to persons who were not even alive at the time.<br /><br />You quote President Packer as referring to men who "have been PROPERLY ordained." So that's the thing, isn't it? Can you find any evidence that the current leaders of the Church have been properly ordained of God? Or have they merely been "set apart" to their current titles and offices?<br /><br />Read my current post, then seek for any date and time when the modern leaders have been appointed or ordained of God:<br /><br /> http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2016/12/did-lord-choose-not-to-anoint-lords.html <br /><br />If you find evidence of a divine appointment to any of the modern office holders, please let me know because I would very much like to have that information. <br /><br />You write of "the spirit of apostasy." Is it not the spirit of apostasy to follow a priesthood officeholder merely because he has rank and station? Are we not warned against trusting in the arm of flesh? "Apostasy" is defined as denouncing or turning your back on your religion. Perhaps your religion requires you to support false idols, but mine requires something very different. My religion commands me to keep an eye single to the Glory of God, and him only. My religion's scriptures warn me that cursed is he who trusts in the arm of flesh. <br /><br />The Lord has never directed us to follow any priesthood holders. He did, however, charge us to HEED the words Joseph Smith spoke AS HE RECEIVED THEM FROM GOD, but to my knowledge no modern Church leader has ever received a similar endorsement. Obeying, following, or even heeding the statements men, unless they are directly quoting the words God put into their mouths by his own voice, is prohibited, and contrary to the commandments of God.<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-88437907145500575632016-12-27T12:24:06.586-08:002016-12-27T12:24:06.586-08:00That's like telling the former day saints to n...That's like telling the former day saints to not follow Peter and the other apostles. Yes - I will follow the Saviour as per your suggestion AND His current prophets and apostles that He has asked us to follow.<br /><br />That reminds me of the story told by President Packer "Karl G. Maeser was leading a party of young missionaries across the Alps. As they reached the summit, he looked back and saw a row of sticks thrust into the snow to mark the one safe path across the otherwise treacherous glacier.<br /><br />Halting the company of missionaries, he gestured toward the sticks and said, “Brethren, there stands the priesthood [of God]. They are just common sticks like the rest of us, … but the position they hold makes them what they are to us. If we step aside from the path they mark, we are lost.” (In Alma P. Burton, Karl G. Maeser, Mormon Educator, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1953, p. 22.)<br /><br />Although no one of us is perfect, the Church moves forward, led by ordinary people.<br /><br />The Lord promised:<br /><br />“If my people will hearken unto my voice, and unto the voice of my servants whom I have appointed to lead my people, behold, verily I say unto you, they shall not be moved out of their place.<br /><br />“But if they will not hearken to my voice, nor unto the voice of these men whom I have appointed, they shall not be blest.” (D&C 124:45–46)<br /><br />I bear witness, brethren and sisters, that the leaders of the Church were called of God by proper authority, and it is known to the Church that they have that authority and have been properly ordained by the regularly ordained heads of the Church. If we follow them we will be saved. If we stray from them we will surely be lost. (Ensign, May 1985)"<br />Thomas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30197334086410932532016-12-27T04:37:09.187-08:002016-12-27T04:37:09.187-08:00Thomas Paul,
Here's a novel idea: how about yo...Thomas Paul,<br />Here's a novel idea: how about you consider not following Rock OR the Brethren, and focus on following only Jesus Christ?Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-22183228316941749962016-12-26T21:00:52.503-08:002016-12-26T21:00:52.503-08:00Ilyan Kei Lavanway's remarks are the most impo...Ilyan Kei Lavanway's remarks are the most important on here. The rest of the remarks carry a spirit of apostasy. Yes, the brethren are not perfect, and yes, the church is not perfect, but the comments of Rock and many others encourages criticism of the brethren who I am sure are doing their best to follow what the Saviour asks them to do. I will follow them and not Rock.Thomas Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-9721589988066941072016-09-21T11:33:15.168-07:002016-09-21T11:33:15.168-07:00By the time we bought our first VCR, which I think...By the time we bought our first VCR, which I think was around 1985, it cost us around $200.00, I think. So prices were falling fast.<br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57620451403431692462016-09-21T11:31:09.696-07:002016-09-21T11:31:09.696-07:00That may well be, Steven. My research was quoting ...That may well be, Steven. My research was quoting prices near the beginning of 1984. This article in the times in November appears to be declaring on how far prices had dropped in time for Christmas. Thanks for the info. Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-24051518596957160942016-09-20T23:50:21.142-07:002016-09-20T23:50:21.142-07:00Oops. Sorry, forgot the link. http://www.nytimes.c...Oops. Sorry, forgot the link. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/11/12/business/innovations-spur-boom-in-vcr-sales.html?pagewanted=allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91332681783645898292016-09-20T23:46:09.441-07:002016-09-20T23:46:09.441-07:00At the risk of quibbling over mites, VCRs had come...At the risk of quibbling over mites, VCRs had come down in price quite a bit. There might be many people who recorded, though I can't imagine too many people carting around conference talks from 1984. My middle-class parents bought a VCR a year earlier. This New York Times story said the average price in November 1984 was about $500, with lower end models selling for just under $300.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29101328706761018032016-04-09T15:06:22.412-07:002016-04-09T15:06:22.412-07:00Ilyan Lavanway, my response is primarily directed ...Ilyan Lavanway, my response is primarily directed to you though I realize it may be far too late for you to return to this specific site. I can only hope that you and perhaps others might notice. I appreciate your thoughts and heartfelt comments. I was baptized a member of the LDS Church along with my mother at the age of 8. My parents would drop me off in front of the Stake Ctr on Sundays. I would attend by myself. I have always felt it important to be learning about my Savior, Jesus Christ, and have tried to follow Him my whole life.<br /><br />Fast forwarding to the late '80's, I'd like you to know of my profound spiritual experience. Since I had just lost my intact family I was, in my estimation, at that time humble, teachable and willing to submit to all the will of my Father in Heaven. I sought further light and knowledge from On High re: the Book of Mormon so as to be sure I was leading my children to Him. <br /><br />I had no positive preconceived knowledge of what answer I might receive at that time. In fact, I didn't know that I would be asking three major questions, all at once, rather than one. You may say to me that this is my own personal revelation and your words would be uncontested. The kicker is that as LDS we all belong to the same church and listen to the same prophets. Please note the answer I received many years ago, prior to this great awakening which is taking place among studious church members today: <br />http://restorationinterrupted.blogspot.com/2015/03/silent-devotion-my-mothers-testimony.html<br /><br />Since this time, I've studied the scriptures, esp, all of Jeremiah 23 to learn what the Lord has to say re: these latter-day prophets: <br />21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran... (these are the only prophets I know of who ran in succession and nearly every word of this chapter addresses the Lord's thoughts re: these men, including ...) 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord... 20: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.<br />Also, in Jeremiah 5:13 And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them. <br />There is a reason SLC does not direct members to have scripture studies as members of other faiths have Bible Study. They comprise his directions for us. They are our Urim and Thummim. My intent is not to persuade but to encourage you to take these matters to the Lord, yourself... as you suggest. I did again, recently.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11328771187558710261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87973008174415751822015-12-03T11:13:54.428-08:002015-12-03T11:13:54.428-08:00You may be interested in the real story here:
htt...You may be interested in the real story here:<br /><br />http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_history/Censorship_and_revision/Ronald_E._Poelman_in_1984TWPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01745378238165995691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-73683338682449473442015-10-20T03:35:35.917-07:002015-10-20T03:35:35.917-07:00I wonder if Elder Poelman could ever look at himse...I wonder if Elder Poelman could ever look at himself in the mirror with selfrespect after this happened. Did he not make any objections? What a church. This is East Germany. But it is good that it happened. Here we are on the edge of good and evil, and it is up to each one of us to choose what is the best way for us individually.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-35785817265577697532015-07-27T21:22:19.274-07:002015-07-27T21:22:19.274-07:00The Church is careful, and rightfully so, to ensur...The Church is careful, and rightfully so, to ensure what is spoken from its pulpits is clear and not easily misinterpreted of misrepresented by those who would detract from the divine direction that comes from Christ through his chosen prophets and apostles and general authorities.<br /><br />Has anyone even considered that this entire sequence of events surrounding Elder Poelman's talk may be one of the ways the Lord is sifting out the hearts of men? Can we not see, in the fallout of this incident, that so many otherwise faithful members of the Church have and are apostatizing and losing their testimonies because one man presented a talk that was subsequently edited?<br /><br />Are we really so foolish as to think the Church has ceased to be true because one man was corrected or edited? Does it really matter whether Elder Poelman was directed to edit his remarks or whether he did so of his own volition? He did so. And therefore, ultimately, it was indeed of his own volition.<br /><br />He chose to follow the guidance that came to him through divine channels, whether that was through the Holy Ghost prompting him personally to edit his remarks, or whether one of his inspired Brethren suggested he do so. If the latter was the case, then surely Elder Poelman received and heeded the confirming revelation from the Holy Ghost that editing his remarks was the right choice. <br /><br />He could have stubbornly exercised his agency and refused to edit his remarks, and then perhaps gone down a path of bitterness leading to excommunication. He did not choose that path. Thankfully, he showed us an example of humility and willingness to change course and do and speak the Lord's will, even if it might cause him some personal embarrassment.<br /><br />The church is true in all its facets, and it is correct in all its dealings and operations. Jesus Christ leads his Church and chooses his leaders within his Church. And yes, we do depend on the Church and on the Gospel. The Church is the divine vehicle through which the fulness of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is administered to all the inhabitants of Earth. We cannot get or enjoy the fulness of the gospel or its ordinances anywhere else or by any other means.<br /><br />Scriptural reference to the Church of the Firstborn suggests the Church continues beyond this dispensation, through the Millennium, and onward into the eternities. Of course, its programs will change as needs and times change, but the ordinances and principles administered through the Church are eternal and unchanging.<br /><br />We cannot set aside our testimonies when one of our general leaders makes a correction to bring himself more in line with the sustaining of fellow General Authorities. These vessels of the Lord are NOT analogous to UPS delivery men. They are the only men through which the Lord will speak to the inhabitants of the Earth as a whole. No one else can or should speak to the world on the Lord's behalf. Anyone who so attempts is a false prophet, no matter how sincere his intentions may be.<br /><br />Nothing in Church doctrine suggests we cannot or should not be free thinkers. We must be free thinkers. Truth sets us free. Obedience to God and his chosen spokesmen does not take away from us any of our agency. In fact, obedience to God and his servants is what ensures the continuation of our individual agency and the receiving of greater light and knowledge.<br /><br />I am a deep thinker, I have written several books from my personal LDS perspective. I love exploring deep doctrines and concepts, but I know my thoughts are are my own, and that I have no right nor authority to speak to the world or to the Church. I make a conscious effort to point readers to the Brethren for doctrinal questions. The Brethren are the ONLY individuals through whom the Lord reveals and clarifies doctrine.<br /><br />Everyone here needs to go back to Church. If your questions and concerns are not met by searching the revealed and posted official writings of the Church, then pray and fast, and ask Heavenly Father for confirming revelation. Do you think he will not give it to you? He has promised he will.Ilyan Kei Lavanwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12135081659962228204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84996302197960870492015-07-12T02:11:11.366-07:002015-07-12T02:11:11.366-07:00I seem to remember that it was Uchtdorf who said t...I seem to remember that it was Uchtdorf who said that.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10831826568470630979noreply@blogger.com