tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post7708436004654535338..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Of Alms And OfferingsAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-72919179641813839262017-05-09T20:39:43.740-07:002017-05-09T20:39:43.740-07:00Bullion Exchanges is a trusted Precious Metals Sel...<b><a href="http://bullion.syntaxlinks.com/r/BullionExchanges" rel="nofollow">Bullion Exchanges</a></b> is a trusted Precious Metals Seller located in the heart of New York City's Diamond District. <br /><br />They have a wide selection of products such as, bullion that range from the gold and silver to the prestigious platinum & palladium.<br /><br />Bullion Exchanges are offering a wide range of products appealing to 1st time buyers and for experienced investors.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-75866318227033657402013-07-19T07:19:00.515-07:002013-07-19T07:19:00.515-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.This comment has been removed by the author.Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-3109721728440097512013-07-13T08:58:57.813-07:002013-07-13T08:58:57.813-07:00Well, first off, I would suggest you stop approach...Well, first off, I would suggest you stop approaching tithing from a place of fear and worry, which is where you seem to be coming from.<br><br>As to your question, "Can I really, really stop paying 10% tithing?"<br><br>No. If you intend to tithe, a tithe is 10 percent. But if you wish to follow the law, you will tithe ten percent of your INTEREST, and not give away ten percent of your gross wages. Once you have determined how much of your surplus is titheable, you may find you have much, much more than before which can be contributed to alms and offerings. Give the remaining surplus in fast offerings if you wish.<br><br> If you are concerned that your bishop may have a problem with that, it is your bishop who is misinformed, so you might want to bring with you a copy of the Statement of the First Presidency on tithing. That statement contains the instruction that ultimately it is up to the individual to decide how much he pays, so your bishop is not justified in deciding whether you are a full tithepayer. Only you make that determination. If he accuses you of trying to keep more of the Lord's money for yourself, direct him to look at your fast offering contributions, and ask him if he has contributed at least that much to the work of the Lord himself.<br><br>I would advise one more thing: stop fearing Church leaders. In this church, No one is supposed to have authority over another. Reclaim your power.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-11753710218717080692013-07-13T08:35:19.681-07:002013-07-13T08:35:19.681-07:00Can I really, really stop paying 10% tithing? I m...Can I really, really stop paying 10% tithing? <br>I mean...when the bishop asks me what I'm doing...what I do say?<br>If I come off as argumentative...won't that send the wrong message?<br>btw - I am so far behind on tithing for this year that it makes me want to cry. I didn't realize that my bank auto pay set up for tithing didn't go through until just this week...and now...I can't make up all of that money...I'm at a decision point. <br>What to do...what to do? :)WhatToDo?noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-74989334093552013242013-07-11T07:30:50.846-07:002013-07-11T07:30:50.846-07:00Essentially, all of the old stuff before Southern ...Essentially, all of the old stuff before Southern Pacific and Diesel Engines caused all of it to be destroyed. To see demonstrated all of the old time procedures and especially the Steam Engines. I have studied the history of this town's stations and yard from when it was first built in 1898 until the 1990's when the UP bought up everything, and I have missed so much, having been born too late. I want to see it all happen in front of my own spirit eyes, if you will, moment by moment, and movement by movement. In my heart, San Luis Obispo remains my home, but I will never be able to live there again, because it has become as expensive to live within as Santa Barbara is. Once dead, though, I will be able to experience everything invisibly, unencumbered by material boundaries, and see for myself what was true about what I've read, and what never took place, and what was never known about. All of the secrets will be mine to hold, sort of, and the slow evolution of the town through its link with the outside world will make me love her all the more. <br><br>I also want to know how the Great Pyramid was built and how the four great stones that make up the palace at Baalbud were moved when they weigh, each of them, literally hundreds of tons. But these would just be sideshows when compared to SLO's rail history in the making. <br><br>Again, I hope God's in a good mood when I ask Him for permission. A "NO" would be highly disappointing. Highly, indeed!Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-46443301931466143472013-07-10T22:25:26.637-07:002013-07-10T22:25:26.637-07:00Okay Steven, my curiosity is piqued. What is it ab...Okay Steven, my curiosity is piqued. What is it about the railyard you hope to observe?Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-28720446974817116952013-07-09T09:12:23.416-07:002013-07-09T09:12:23.416-07:00@Steven,You are welcome; it is just what I believe...@Steven,<br><br>You are welcome; it is just what I believe, and I also want to go back in time and see a few things--<br><br>those years (1920-1950) are some of the years I want to see of various places--<br><br>The second thing you say is fascinating; I wonder how many of us have felt that and not communicated it--<br><br>the desire to see why--<br><br>I believe we all will--<br><br>Your last line--<br><br>LOL!<br><br>LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13382573880351460552013-07-09T02:28:48.917-07:002013-07-09T02:28:48.917-07:00Thank you for your kind reply, LDSDPer. I haven&#...Thank you for your kind reply, LDSDPer. I haven't ever had an NDE experience either because I've never been anywhere near to death's door. (Darn it.) I like your point that with billions of people who inhabit either here or there, many kinds of simultaneous communications have to be ongoing. (Just think of the logistics that must be involved!) He (Whomever is in charge of my case) honors my desire to be left alone on this side. I'm appreciative of that. He know that to give me any kind of distinct assignment would have the result of tearing me apart. <br><br>I expect that my Asperger's will disappear the moment I die, as will my gayness. Both are functions of the brain in some way, and when I leave my brain all of that will stay with it. I'll start to remember who I was before I came to Earth, and I'll probably be greatly surprised, either for ill or good. So, I'm not worried about that, particularly, although there are two things I especially want to do: experience in real time the railroad yard located at San Luis Obispo, California during the 30 years between 1920 and 1950 on a 24-hour clock; and to see the life of one guy who was in every way my opposite in High School in all the ways that impressed other people physically and socially, and to see how he got that way and what he had to endure as payment. I hope that these will be permitted me soon after I pass over. God already knows of my desire. Maybe He'll be in a good mood and grant me it.Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-49546571242717014522013-07-08T06:39:48.214-07:002013-07-08T06:39:48.214-07:00I've been disconnected from technology for a w...I've been disconnected from technology for a week and came back to see this discussion.<br><br>Steven, I saw what you wrote about NDEs, but I didn't ever respond, because I have not, ever, had one.<br><br>However, I can say that I truly believe that you will be healed of your Aspergers, so that you can process emotion in a very healthy way--<br><br>I believe in healing; no, not necessary "now", but I believe it will come--<br><br>I have had no experience with NDEs, but I have had one or two experiences with Jesus, as have several of my family members.<br><br>I am fascinated with the idea of NDEs, but I can't comment on them personally--<br><br>I don't think that 'heaven' will be anything like the world we now know, in or out of the church; that is just my belief, however--<br><br>in the Book of Mormon there is a rebuke (can't find it; need to ask my husband who read it aloud to me a day or two ago) to those who believe that only they have the 'truth', reminding the reader that the Lord works with all people everywhere--<br><br>He reaches people wherever they are, whether in this world or in the spirit world; that is amazingly comforting, and it explains why Mormon 'terms' may not be used after people go to the spirit world. Mormon context/understanding is only one way God has of reaching people in a certain place/time--<br><br>that is what I believe--<br><br>LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-63111813940877185942013-07-03T09:16:17.685-07:002013-07-03T09:16:17.685-07:00Steven.Yes, I thought you were being a bit humorou...Steven.<br>Yes, I thought you were being a bit humorous in your comment about being doomed and what to do, however, I didn't want to assume that, in case you were serious.<br><br>Thank you for sharing some very tender information about yourself.<br>I'm sorry for your experiences in the church. They reflect many of my and others experiences. You're not alone. But finally realizing that God really isn't in control of all that goes on in church has helped me realize that it doesn't have as much to do with me as I thought. All there really is, is GOD AND ME. Everything else is just an illusion.<br><br>Your comment about after dying and how it will be nice to see your Mom and Dad and younger brother and grandma prompted a thought in me which clarifies what real love is. It is exactly that love you feel from them and for them that I believe is the true essence of unconditional love. It's that kind of love that's in heaven. It's exactly that kind but even more accepting and non judgmental that Jesus encompasses.<br><br>I thought about the "interview" we hear about among the church members, wherein we will be questioned about our life on earth by our Lord and it seems un-god-like to me. He already knows everything about us. He is our greatest cheerleader. He has experienced our sorrows and successes as we have gone through them. It seems to me that when we approach Him that it will be a connection just like that of meeting up with our dearest family members. Simple I know. But I think that's the gospel.<br>The reference I think people mean when they talk of an interview comes from David Mckay<br>and his intentions of trying to get men to understand their responsibilities towards their families. I don't believe it was a revelation. He just had good intentions?menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-64227039670069770262013-07-02T04:33:43.894-07:002013-07-02T04:33:43.894-07:00Well, although I was saying it somewhat in jest, I...Well, although I was saying it somewhat in jest, I am autistic and so find it almost impossible to feel love in any way. Cute puppies and butterflies are an exception perhaps, but for people...no way. I have Asperger's Syndrom, and although my writing is decent, my speaking is halting and slow, and any kind of social contact, physical or friendship, is anathema to me. This is one of the reasons, perhaps the main reason (other than the fact that I am also gay) why for 32 years LDS membership and involvement was hellish for me, and also why "they" never gave me any kind of calling (not since 1984), because they knew I was strange, even if they didn't know why. <br><br>While I hate living here on Earth because it is so violent and dangerous, I equally am not thrilled to be returning to a place where the very atmosphere is Love. It will prove too much, too intense, for me, at least for a while until the memory of my body's imperatives wears away. (I also am not looking forward to meeting with Jesus, the Great Golden Boy, for that reason, because He is too perfect, and I am too weird and completely unaccomplished in any way. Even if I HAVE to talk to Him, I hope the interview is exceedingly quick and unrepeated.)<br><br>Frankly, after I die, it will nice to see Mom and Dad again, and my younger brother, and my grandma (whose deaths were the only deaths in my family that caused me to cry), but after that, right now as I write this, all I will want is to be left alone and allowed to do my own thing. I certainly don't want to be engaged in some sort of eternal conversation with billions of other minds. I really don't. That would be hell for me, even if hell as a place does not exist.<br><br>Perhaps this might answer your question. Perhaps.Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87269698032729184182013-07-01T11:18:01.423-07:002013-07-01T11:18:01.423-07:00Steven, I haven't experienced a NDE but I did ...Steven, I haven't experienced a NDE but I did have an amazingly real dream once in which Jesus, larger that life, was carrying me like a baby cradled in his arms. The love I felt was incredible. It was not emotional, as teary or gushy or the like. It was just an all encompassing kind of a feeling. Completely accepting and non judgmental. When I woke up I felt an enormous lack of love not to be found on the earth, anywhere. I think I was given a gift of what real unconditional love really is. What people claim to have as unconditional love isn't really what Jesus has. It might be a small portion but those that claim it are usually the ones who don't have it. <br><br>As far as the "love in the foyer", It would make sense to me that if there isn't any intentions of deception, and I don't think God is capable of that, that what you see in the foyer is just the same kind of thing you'll find in the rest of the building. That seems to be the way of architecture and design in buildings here on earth. It could be based on a natural principle in heaven. <br><br>Will you explain why you would feel doomed and the question of "now what do I do?"menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-51241917650306591072013-06-30T21:31:59.165-07:002013-06-30T21:31:59.165-07:00No intention to stir contention and I understand a...No intention to stir contention and I understand and respect the point you make Spek. However, in the meridian of time the church was much as it is today and even Christ recognized and advocated respect for (at least the teachings of) the church and its leaders, even while reserving His most scathing denunciations of the leaders' hypocrisy and crimes ("do as they teach, not as they do").<br>How much different is our time from the time of Jesus' mortal ministry? Probably less evil today than in 33AD.<br>JR<br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31716820565495562992013-06-30T18:18:40.477-07:002013-06-30T18:18:40.477-07:00Spek, I appreciate you bringing out those points. ...Spek, <br>I appreciate you bringing out those points. Didn't the Lord say that anyone can say "Lord Lord", but only those who do his will and works will be found worthy and accepted at the last day. <br><br>So any Church can call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ, that's easy, and many do, but only those who are preach and practice his Gospel and can be trusted. And such people seem very rare who actually believe in Christ and live his Gospel. <br><br>Thus why I don't trust or believe in the LDS Church anymore, for I do not believe it's leaders or members preach, let alone practice the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone from top to bottom seems to instead support or do the vilest of evils and call it good and right and themselves righteous.<br><br>Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80699691984031648692013-06-30T17:20:42.761-07:002013-06-30T17:20:42.761-07:00In Third Nephi, chapter 27, the Lord established t...In Third Nephi, chapter 27, the Lord established the criteria for an organization to be called His church. <br><br>1. It must be called in the name of Christ (3 Ne. 27:8)<br>2. It must be built upon His gospel (3 Ne. 27:9)<br>3. It must demonstrate the works/miracles of the Father (3 Ne. 27:11)<br><br>By my analysis, the current LDS church reasonably addresses item number one. The church has changed the gospel to something other than what is taught in the Book of Mormon (mainly around the gospel principle of the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost) and the leadership of the church do not show forth the works of the Father as did the twelve disciples among the Nephites ( 4 Ne 1:5)<br><br>Is one out of three sufficient to call the current LDS church the church of Christ? Unfortunately, no...<br><br>Spek<br>spektatorhttp://www.justandtrue.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30124439815102304552013-06-30T13:34:20.072-07:002013-06-30T13:34:20.072-07:00Yes, I agree that is the primary purpose and test ...Yes, I agree that is the primary purpose and test of mortality, to see if we will believe in and gain and give this Charity and pure unconditional love. <br><br>For no matter what else we may do or achieve in life or no matter how good we may otherwise be or how many visions or revelations or gifts we may receive, if we have not charity, true unconditional love, especially for our spouse, we are nothing and I don't believe we will gain eternal life and Joseph taught that without charity we will be easily deceived to support evil, while thinking we are supporting good.Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-73850523258822061942013-06-30T11:20:27.814-07:002013-06-30T11:20:27.814-07:00Reading Steve's and Anon 23's latest comme...Reading Steve's and Anon 23's latest comments, perhaps a primary purpose of mortality is to learn how to have, give, and be that full unconditional love "on our own" (but with help from scriptures, whatever religious teachings that are available to us, and the Holy Ghost), the "on our own" part being doing it here when not surrounded and immersed by it like the Florida humidity.PNW_DPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27034261231706920422013-06-30T10:09:20.833-07:002013-06-30T10:09:20.833-07:00Having experienced a NDE also, and not wanting to ...Having experienced a NDE also, and not wanting to come back until convinced I needed to, I believe in such experiences. <br><br>But though such experiences can strengthen people and give them greater insight about the after life and our life here and a testimony that God lives, they aren't told what religion is right, accept that they often learn about Christ as their Savior. <br><br>Those who have had such experiences can still easily be deceived to fall for false prophets and falsehoods and evils just like everyone else. And it may even make people more accountable than normal if they do fall for evil.<br><br>And I concur with Lester, it's all about love, unconditional love. Which was Christ's central theme and message for the earth. Most of those who come back from NDE's talk about the love they experienced and learned about there. I certainly did, the love is so thick in the air it reminds of how Florida's humidity feels, only it's love in the air not moisture. It's so wonderful you just don't want to leave.<br><br>Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-62885445865239764422013-06-30T02:18:30.320-07:002013-06-30T02:18:30.320-07:00Well, thanks for not ignoring me, as everyone else...Well, thanks for not ignoring me, as everyone else did. It is certainly true that in almost every case people are shown a line of some type (a stream, or a wall, or a forest, etc.) which, if they cross it, they can not return to Earth, and must stay in Heaven. Sometimes they are given the choice, but most are not, almost as if the death-causing circumstance was a surprise that needed to be reversed as fast as possible. In most of these cases, the Experiencer is told that they have some sort of mission that they haven't yet completed, and though they usually are not granted a memory of what this is, they are assured that circumstances will mix precisely to allow them to achieve it. I like the idea of their arriving in a foyer-like place, and not being able to know what lies beyond until they go through the door, or "gate", if you will.<br><br>Nearly everybody sees a Being who possesses transcendent authority, but is also the most compassionate and loving of anyone there. Sometimes, he is faceless, and other times he is known to be Jesus Himself. Rarely, very rarely, is He anyone else, and when he has a face, he looks just like the pictures in the meetinghouse library (whether he lifts weights, or not). <br><br>If anything is stressed more than unconditional love, than I haven't read about it yet. Love is everything (which rather dooms me, I'm afraid). Perhaps unconditional love is the great first law of the foyer! <br><br>I will now say that I now suspect that I still don't know anything beyond what holds true in the foyer. <br><br>Darn!!! Now what do I do?Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-36964626894651082082013-06-29T07:01:51.475-07:002013-06-29T07:01:51.475-07:00Steven Lester, June 26, 6:40PMThe topic of Near De...Steven Lester, June 26, 6:40PM<br>The topic of Near Death Experiences (NDEs) has fascinated me for many years. I have read every NDE experience I could lay my hands on, primarily because it is a very interesting topic, and because I know that I have lived more than 75% of my allotted years of mortality on this planet and I would like to learn as much as I can about what comes next.<br>I too have noticed that NDEs do not mention much about religion. I have also wondered about that.<br>What I have concluded is that those who experience NDEs probably only enter into the foyer of the next world and that their stay is brief which very likely precludes learning much of what transpires there.<br>I think it is analogous to landing at LAX, staying there for an hour, then trying to draw conclusions about what the rest of this world looks and feels like.<br>Some whom I have read have given clues that religion is also important there. One man I know, who experienced a NDE after he was hit by a train and severely injured, met Joseph Smith and the Savior.<br>Several books of early pioneer NDEs tell of people having NDEs and meeting other church leaders and especially family members. Some have spoken of meeting "a Being of Light" who directed them to perform tasks back here in mortality which are consistent with LDS beliefs, such as geneology or Temple work, or missionary work.<br>In considering these things, I have felt impressed that NDEs are given as a reassurance that God does live, that there is indeed something following this brief "veil of tears" and to give all people reassurance that this world is not all there is; to help counterbalance the overwhelming atheistic propaganda in the world today which makes so many fearful of what comes next...or that nothing comes next except oblivion. It seems apparent to me that God is not in the business of pre-empting peoples' need to search for and find Him through faith and personal revelation by giving out NDEs that tell the whole story and eliminate all doubt and questions. He is indeed kind and loving beyond our understanding, and I believe He holds back much for our ultimate well being.<br>I do think NDEs are very real and in many ways they are described in terms that closely resemble the experiences of people who have seen visions and had significant revelations. They seem very closely related in many respects.<br>Just my thoughts in answer to your interesting and thought provoking question.<br>Much love dear brother.<br>JR<br><br><br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87492732390677194662013-06-27T17:32:19.737-07:002013-06-27T17:32:19.737-07:00Thank you, James. I've been thinking more of ...Thank you, James. I've been thinking more of that this year than ever before, for some reason.<br><br>I am eager to know everything that happened, even if it is terribly sad--<br><br>you know, the unsanitized version. I have my own opinions, but I am really glad for Joseph and Hyrum (and the brothers who soon after died or were killed) that they didn't have to stick around--<br><br>!LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-77868171722085470612013-06-27T17:30:42.496-07:002013-06-27T17:30:42.496-07:00I wish I didn't agree with you. I dislike pol...I wish I didn't agree with you. I dislike polygamy heartily and find it hard to believe it was inspired, and I have begun to question Brigham Young's authenticity. But, the 'bottom line' is that I didn't meet the man. I didn't know him. I don't know his heart, so I can't judge him.<br><br>And I've struggled for many years to find other places to feel the spirit (not because I am disaffected with the LDS church but for other reasons)--<br><br>I do know that people who are not LDS can have the spirit in abundance, but their churches are hard to feel the spirit in; I have experienced this many times--<br><br>they can be filled with the spirit and with charity, etc., but their services are empty. It's very frustrating--<br><br>As for Brigham Young I will wait and see; I am willing to wait and see. I've never felt the need to ask the Lord if he was a prophet, but I have prayed a lot about him as I have begun to question polygamy, and the fact is that Joseph Smith is the one whose prophet-ness I have a testimony of--<br><br>not Brigham Young. But I'm not his judge; I am not his God or his Savior--<br><br>so I'm willing, quite literally, to let him rest in peace, if he is at peace. If not, poor man, after all--<br><br>LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4053476992018060952013-06-27T13:37:35.345-07:002013-06-27T13:37:35.345-07:00Just seemed like a good time and place to note tha...Just seemed like a good time and place to note that today marks the 169th anniversary of the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith. For those who believe, perhaps a moment or two of solemnity, sometime near 5pm.Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04771021470896894211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66217274629113133962013-06-27T11:46:06.948-07:002013-06-27T11:46:06.948-07:00Anon 23,If you are trying to provoke me or insult ...Anon 23,<br>If you are trying to provoke me or insult me, I am not interested.<br>I do not have a "belief" in Joseph Smith, I have a solid testimony borne of the Spirit that he was and still is a Prophet of God. As I have stated in several posts, following Christ is the ONLY way to receive Eternal Life in the Kingdom of God.<br>Whatever your personal views of Brigham Young and Plural Marriage, you can still find personal growth and the Spirit in the SLC LDS church, if you look with an honest heart.<br>That is not to say the church is perfect, far from it. There is just nothing else on earth that I have found that approaches the church in terms of bringing men (and women) to The Gate into the straight and narrow path that leads to Eternal Life, as mentioned by Nephi.<br>Good luck in finding your way through the paths you have chosen.<br>JRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-50869801686287388222013-06-27T11:15:24.357-07:002013-06-27T11:15:24.357-07:00Ok, that explains everything. I thought you belie...Ok, that explains everything. I thought you believed in Joseph Smith and Christ and that polygamy was wrong. It makes perfect sense that you would have your views if you believed Brigham Young was good and Joseph was a liar. <br><br>I'm just sorry you believe that true prophets would lie and abuse their wives in such vile ways, and that you would support that. But if that is what a person likes and looks for in Prophets, Heavenly Father will let us follow any kind of prophet or person we choose to. <br><br>Both the righteous and the wicked have 'spiritual manifestations' and believe the Holy Ghost is blessing and reveling things to them, they just are receiving such from opposite kinds of Spirits. But both are sure they are right.<br><br>We must test all our 'spiritual manifestations and revelations' with what Christ taught to be sure it's correct and true and coming from God and not Satan. For Christ taught that it was adultery for a man to marry more than one living wife, even if he tried to divorce the 1st one 1st. Matt. 19:9, etc.<br><br>So you can follow Brigham's doctrines if they sound good to you, it mattereth not to me, but I believe in Christ and only those who preach and practice the exact things he did.Anon 23noreply@blogger.com