tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post7454188285765908911..comments2024-03-26T21:27:42.278-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Infallible Authority, Chapter TwelveAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14092260724232846612013-06-05T08:18:28.179-07:002013-06-05T08:18:28.179-07:00Continued -
And 'the Holy Spirit of Promise&...Continued - <br /><br />And 'the Holy Spirit of Promise' is true unconditional love, which if just one spouse has it then they can guarantee the marriage will go on forever after the other spouse repents. <br /><br />According to Christ there is no such thing as 2nd marriages and they definitely aren't eternal, so I don't know why you believe the things you do or who you are listening to, but they don't trump Christ.<br /><br />Can you imagine what this world would be like if everyone divorced their unrighteous spouses, again and again? People would be going in and out of marriages like musical chairs, if they even married at all, and it's getting that way. And that's the quickest way to destroy a society, for only true love in marriage can make societies last, anything else eventually destroys them, that's why Christ preached such an idea, though few accept it, for it requires too much unconditional love and service. <br /><br />If there is no standard of true unconditional love and commitment in marriage, then anythings goes and no one is safe in any marriage, for their spouse can leave them at any time for someone else, so it's foolish to marry. <br /><br />The Church supports such evil today in allowing men and women to abandon their spouse and family for any reason, or no reason at all, just because they want someone knew. It is totally anti Christ. But I am not surprised at this because the LDS Church is not the same Church that Joseph started, it's a break off that Brigham Young started and it's in complete apostasy from the true Gospel of Christ, that's why it allows things like polygamy, divorce and remarriage and many other evils.<br /><br />Everyone wants true love but few are willing to give it. <br />Only those who are unafraid of the truth will find it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38195845708932564922013-06-05T08:17:14.660-07:002013-06-05T08:17:14.660-07:00So Christ's teachings are not for everyone? I...So Christ's teachings are not for everyone? I didn't make this stuff up, Christ did. <br /><br />Where are the scriptures that say it's ok to divorce a wicked spouse and remarry someone else and it will be eternal? I can't find any, no matter how many people say they think it's ok.<br /><br />The people in Moses days were very wicked and would not keep their marriage vows, but just because Moses couldn't stop them from divorcing doesn't mean they were allowed to do so without eternal consequences. Remarriage was still adultery in Moses's day too, just like it is today. Truth does not change, it is always the same, yesterday, today and forever.<br /><br />Many prophets of the Church have said that divorce is an abomination even today and remarriage is still adultery, even if some church leaders seem to go along with it, it doesn't mean those who do it get a free pass or Christ's law doesn't apply to them.<br /><br />Prophets and church leaders don't trump Christ, in fact they have to preach the same as he did or they prove themselves imposters and false prophets as Joseph Smith said they do.<br /><br />Heavenly Father knew that most everyone would deal with unrighteous spouses with some form or degree of abuse, adultery or addiction going on in their marriages, today and in most ages of time, yet his law on marriage is still the same for everyone, that there is no such thing as divorce or remarriage. God of course allows us to separate from a dangerous spouse, to protect ourselves and children if need be, but he never said we can go date or remarry someone else, because we are still married to the 1st and no one can change that, not a 1000 divorces. Even the fallen/false prophet Brigham Young knew and taught that divorce means nothing to God and it's like a blank piece of paper. Why do you think judges, politicians who pass laws allowing divorce can trump Christ? That is flimsy ground in my view. If a marriage will be dissolved it will be by Heavenly Father in the next life. He commanded us to not try to so so here, for no one has the power to do it anyway.<br /><br />True unconditional everlasting love is the new idea that Christ taught to this world, and it is has always been the standard for all marriages, good or bad, since the days of Adam, it's just few ever lived by that standard, but it doesn't mean we are excused from it. <br /><br />Most people have unrighteous abusive spouses, but we are to love them as Christ loved us, even if that's from a safe distance if necessary, until they repent and we can rejoin them, in this life or the next. <br /><br />You may not want to believe in Christ and in his teachings but you can't prove it's ok to just go in and out of marriage when the going gets rough. There are no scriptures to support any such ideas. So while you may not agree with me, at least I stand with Christ on this matter, even though that is not the easy road, but in the end it will reap the greatest blessings. And his teachings are for everyone, not just me. I don't know why you think one can remarry and the marriage be righteous, let alone eternal, where does it say that. And again, don't say some prophet said or ok'd it, because not even prophets can change or preach contrary to Christ's laws, or they prove themselves false prophets. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-61976291134899354222013-06-04T22:46:50.910-07:002013-06-04T22:46:50.910-07:00Dear "Anonymous" sister,
I have been r...Dear "Anonymous" sister, <br /><br />I have been reading your comments about marriage now in virtually every post. (On SEVERAL websites!) It is your answer to EVERYTHING. I don't want to "burst your bubble". Perhaps the Lord has given <i>you</i> this great burden to bear with regard to your wayward spouse --<i> and the promised reward you desire</i>.<br /><br />I'm afraid you're <i>obsessesed</i> with this doctrine, however. (It appears to be the only "raft" you cling to!) I'm not suggesting that you are mistaken regarding <i>your</i> situation. But you clearly are mistaken regarding <i>mine</i> (and that of many other people).<br /><br />I was married to a woman who proved to be <i><b>truly evil</b></i>. We had to divorce. (She sought to destroy me! I feared for my life!) We had been sealed in the temple. <br /><br />Only marriages sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise -- not just in temples -- will endure through eternity. (I wish you the best on that.)<br /><br />The sealing between my former wife and I is still in place (though she is no longer active in the Church). Should I have remained married to her -- and be destroyed? -- or remain celibate the rest of my days, precluding me from experiencing all the joys and blessings I have experienced with my current wife (and our seven children)? Certainly not! I could not have fulfilled the measure of my creation or had joy in my posterity!<br /><br />The "burden" you think to impose on everyone else -- to get and remain "married" at all costs -- is a false doctrine generally (though it may apply in your particular circumstance). People are <i>not</i> perfect. And for the "hardness" of their hearts -- not to mention their wicked lives -- the Lord provides for a "release" for those who are mismatched. (Blessed are you if you can endure. Your spouse may be saved by your faithfulness! But several Latter-day prophets have opted to divorce. Sometimes it's necessary.)<br /><br />Please consider refraining from "preaching" your particular "doctrine" on EVERY post. You've made your point (many, many times now). The Lord, apparently, has given YOU a burden/blessing to bear/receive. It is NOT for everyone.Good Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09741814252871576371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-22615685772340793262013-06-04T11:17:01.744-07:002013-06-04T11:17:01.744-07:00Mr. Dewey's analysis is obviously inspired, we...Mr. Dewey's analysis is obviously inspired, well informed and cogent. However, he made one grave error: he defied the leaders of the Church who told him, rightly or wrongly, to shut up! Was it really "necessary" for him and his newphew to preach the mere "proposition" that one may pass from one kingdom of glory to another? No, it was <i>not</i> necessary.<br /><br />It is apparent to me that his thesis, nonetheless, is incorrect, for the simple fact that he negates the possibility that, in the process of time and exertion of agency, one may <i>lose one's ability</i> either to <i>see the error of one's ways</i> or to <i>desire to embrace greater light and knowledge</i>.<br /><br />Do <i>animals</i> progress from one kingdom of glory to the next? (I'm speaking somewhat dishonestly here because I believe, in fact, in the "reincarnation" of intelligence -- that animals "progress" in intelligence by cycles of animate experience. Thus the "humanoid" spirits that inhabited the demoniac begged Jesus to allow them to enter into the swine. It was done then even as it had been done before. Did <i>our</i> intelligences embrace greater "light and truth" by experiencing life as animals? Are the American Indians correct: that the bison and deer and wolf are, indeed, our brothers, at a more primitive level? I think so.) But do animals make <i>moral</i> judgments? No, they lack the intelligence to do so. It is beyond their capacity.<br /><br />Is it not to be expected that, through disobedience, one may lose sufficient "light and truth" to lose the <i>capacity</i> to "repent"? I think so. No one seems to <i>hold out hope</i> for Satan and his angels. Christ certainly never taught (as far as we know) that they who rebelled would one day be salvaged.<br /><br />I think in the "bell curve" of existence, there will ALWAYS be those on the right (glorified and perfected) and those on the left, lacking those things (to varying degrees). It just "is" that way. It's a fact of life.<br /><br />Mr. Dewey threw away his membership in the Church when all he had to do was <i>be loyal</i>. No one was asking him to lie, steal, commit adultery, etc. All they wanted him to do was <i>shut up</i>! Did Christ instruct Mr. Dewey to disobey the Brethren?<br /><br />Apostasy need not be complete in order to be effective. Mr. Dewey -- though perhaps even <i>correct</i>! -- could have exercized a wee bit more deference for the weaknesses of others, even if he does (presume to) know better than they.Good Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09741814252871576371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59467324211213202392012-09-01T20:36:23.398-07:002012-09-01T20:36:23.398-07:00I'm not so sure. I'm more inclined to the ...I'm not so sure. I'm more inclined to the view that when the Saints adopted polygamy as the salient feature of the religion, they relegated the fulness of the gospel to a secondary status. <br /><br />So that would place the official time of that rejection to around 1852.<br /><br />I USED to think things went south when the Saints rejected plural marriage, but now I think it started when they rejected Joseph Smith's denunciations of it and went ahead and practiced it anyway.<br /><br />See here:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html<br /><br />And here:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-mormon-history-is-not-what-they-say.htmlAlan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-46681317855139126642012-09-01T19:44:15.155-07:002012-09-01T19:44:15.155-07:00In the little research I did on the "times of...In the little research I did on the "times of the Gentiles" this is what I found:<br /><br /><br />The times of the Gentiles starts in 1830 and ends in the generation that rejects the fulness of the gospel (D&C 45:28-30).<br /><br />When the Gentiles reject the fulness of the gospel it will be taken from them and given to the house of Israel (3 Nephi 16:10-11).<br /><br />If the 1890 Manifesto marks the rejection of the "fulness" of the gospel and a generation is no more than 120 years (Genesis 6:3), then the times of the Gentiles has already been fulfilled (1890 + 120 = no later than 2010). <br /><br />The question you've got to ask yourself is, "Did the Church vote against plural marriage in 1890 constitute rejection of the fulness of the gospel?" Surprisingly, not even Mormon Fundamentalists (who tend to believe this to be the case) have picked up on the significance of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30422619553254779202011-12-15T22:44:15.139-08:002011-12-15T22:44:15.139-08:00Steven the buff looking High Elf,
Forget the sword...Steven the buff looking High Elf,<br />Forget the sword. Once you learn to lift your arm, lift it to the square and command that dragon to get thee behind you.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10719045610588284862011-12-15T21:55:34.371-08:002011-12-15T21:55:34.371-08:00Shawn,
Once everyone fully repents in Spirit Pri...Shawn, <br /><br />Once everyone fully repents in Spirit Prison & becomes clean & pure again with righteous desires, as all eventually will, they will desperately want whatever mercy or grace or gift is offered them by Christ or a spouse or parent.<br /><br />No one except maybe those who go to outer darkness will reject being able to be with their original spouse again in the Celestial Kingdom, no matter how they felt about or even hated or divorced their spouse on earth. They will be exceedingly & eternally greatful for the gift their spouse gave them in saving them to be in an eternal marriage with them in the Celestial Kingdom & from the singleness & remorse of the Telestial kingdom.<br /><br />The unrighteous spouse will desire to spend eternity making it all up to their righteous spouse who saved them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10315449349736945502011-12-15T10:49:27.594-08:002011-12-15T10:49:27.594-08:00The concept of agency is completely flawed. None ...The concept of agency is completely flawed. None of us are capable of making decisions that are valid in any way, if only because we can not see into the future to see their import. Add to that all of the muddle that our ape brains offer to us constantly, most of which is hidden and completely unknown, and one can see that we are not as intelligent or as capable as we all like to boast about.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32561133283759661502011-12-15T10:42:46.269-08:002011-12-15T10:42:46.269-08:00Skyrim is a popular game wherein you become one of...Skyrim is a popular game wherein you become one of several races and then go out and kill everything in sight, the best battles being against large dragons. So far, I've advanced to stealing and being a pickpocket. I haven't figured out how to raise my arm with the sword in it. Therefore, every time I meet an enemy I have to run away really fast and hide. At present, I am a really buff-looking High Elf, not that my muscles do me much good.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14231787744697779602011-12-15T10:41:38.176-08:002011-12-15T10:41:38.176-08:00But just like THE Savior, work, mercy and grace ca...But just like THE Savior, work, mercy and grace can be offered, but we then use our agency to accept.Shawn C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-55469100821724327242011-12-15T10:37:21.314-08:002011-12-15T10:37:21.314-08:00The blessings are the same, whether or not one pas...The blessings are the same, whether or not one passes before or after the sealing in the Temple, and whether or not the blesser knows and/or loves the blessee. Ultimately, everybody is going to sealed to everybody else, everyone of all of our billions who have or will live on Earth. That is what the Millennium is for. Considering how imperfect all of us are, even as to the subconscious psychology which moves us all in ways that we are not even aware, no other system could be as fair or as loving. This is assuming that it even exists.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81955924315776543622011-12-15T09:31:29.232-08:002011-12-15T09:31:29.232-08:00I also have a testimony about being 'saviors o...I also have a testimony about being 'saviors on mount Zion'. <br /><br />But there is a far more important & vital way to be a 'savior' for someone than doing temple work for them, for we can't save anyone by temple work anyway, if they didn't live righteous while they were on earth. <br /><br />The most we can do for the dead is to be baptized & married for them so they can progress into Paradise, but we can't get them to a higher reward or kingdom or make their marriage eternal if they didn't merit it while on earth.<br /><br />But we can gain the ultimate power to literally 'save' our spouse & children, even if they are wicked while on earth, if we are valiant & keep our marriage covenants, & thus we can save them to the Celestial Kingdom with us, even though they didn't merit or deserve it on their own.<br /><br />Of course they will have to completely repent 1st in Spirit Prison & pay for all their sins, but once they are clean & pure again we will have the power to take them with us to the Celestial Kingdom, if we ourselves were righteous & true to them.<br /><br />That is truly being a 'savior on mount Zion'. That is truly saving someone like Christ saved us. We can save our spouse & children from the pain & singleness of an eternity in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom. <br /><br />Like Christ, we also can use the same principles of power (the power of pure unconditional love) to save even our wicked spouse & children & give them blessings they did not earn themselves.<br /><br />We can truly be Christlike, just like Christ earned us great blessings we didn't earn or deserve ourselves.<br /><br />There is no greater power than to be able to save the unrighteous souls of our loved ones to the Celestial Kingdom, once they repent in the next life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81631772248474208522011-12-14T23:43:39.292-08:002011-12-14T23:43:39.292-08:00Steven,
What is a skyrim?
Shawn,
I have long bee...Steven, <br />What is a skyrim?<br /><br />Shawn,<br />I have long been intrigued by the doctrine of Saviours on Mount Zion. In the old days, one of the Sunday School manuals was on that topic entirely.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10471137708211787802011-12-14T12:20:39.328-08:002011-12-14T12:20:39.328-08:00Well, I do actually have a testimony of something ...Well, I do actually have a testimony of something related to this. Geneolgical research and work for the dead at least in my book is a way to be a Savior for another person. A Savior on Mount Zion if you will.Shawn C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81929396167139480972011-12-14T11:04:16.573-08:002011-12-14T11:04:16.573-08:00I never got the Holy Spirit after I was baptized a...I never got the Holy Spirit after I was baptized and confirmed. I asked for it, but Heaven was just too busy, or else somebody knew that I would just waste it and so spared me the damnation, or else gay and autistic people don't get it because they are too weird. Of course, nobody can be a GA unless they are able to boast that they have it at every chance they get. I wonder if Mitt has it. Dewey must because he's smart and deep. Ah well, I think I am going go play my Skyrim for a while and crash into a few walls because I don't know what the right buttons are to push, or when to push them. The guide costs $26 and I'm too poor right now to buy it. And yes, the last two sentences are a parable; how perceptive of you to notice.Steven Lesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.com