tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post7246099892557314448..comments2024-03-26T21:27:42.278-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: The Most Important Mission Of The Modern Mormon ChurchAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger187125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-23488707413855314492021-07-13T11:12:40.212-07:002021-07-13T11:12:40.212-07:00What happened with Rick Ballard and the couple men...What happened with Rick Ballard and the couple mentioned in this post?loveoverbookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17745185302803053631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-64892320788551525952021-03-23T09:43:48.988-07:002021-03-23T09:43:48.988-07:00This is a really informative knowledge, Thanks for...This is a really informative knowledge, Thanks for posting this informative Information. <a href="https://pankajgarglifecoach.com/areas-of-therapy/life-coaching-for-relationship/" rel="nofollow">Counsellor for Relationship issues</a><br />StevenHWickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05864349482360534088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31394392314395200932018-05-19T09:29:37.336-07:002018-05-19T09:29:37.336-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Shibbolethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416527390586867795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-76704817687739550262018-05-19T09:28:58.637-07:002018-05-19T09:28:58.637-07:00Log wrote: "Commandment 2 means you shall not...Log wrote: "Commandment 2 means you shall not make for your own purposes any representational object, nor shall you make for your own purposes any picture, painting, drawing, or anything like unto these, of anything which exists. This ends most visual media, marketing, film, TV, photography, selfies, and so on.<br /><br />Not only that but it also says you shall not bow yourself down before such things, nor shall you serve - maintain, obey, advance the interests of - such things. This means no responding to visual advertisements or marketing. No taking care of such things. No marketing such things. No selling such things. And, of course, literally not bowing before such things."<br /><br />But what of this?<br /><br />"...You can refuse to believe, but you will see in me a sign and remember this saying: When Moses nailed a brass serpent upon a pole in the wilderness, he prophesied of me. And I shall also be nailed upon a tree, and those who believe on me will receive deliverance through my sacrifice, even as Israel was delivered by looking with faith at Moses’ serpent."<br />(Testimony of John 2:3, RE.)<br /><br />"...And the Lord said unto Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it upon a pole. And it shall come to pass, that everyone that is bitten, when he looks upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass and put it upon a pole. And it came to pass that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."<br />(Exodus 10:7, RE.)<br /><br />"And the Lord spoke unto Moses saying...And you shall make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shall you make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end and the other cherub on the other end. Even of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on the two ends thereof. And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another..." (Exodus 14:1, RE.)<br /><br />"Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet; with cherubim of skillful work shall you make them." (Exodus 14:4, RE.)<br /><br />"And you shall make a veil of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of skillful work; with cherubim shall it be made..." (Exodus 14:7.)<br /><br />Was God telling Moses and the Children of Israel to break the law He just gave them at Sinai, or is this old commentary right here?<br /><br />" Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.—The two main clauses of the second commandment are to be read together, so as to form one sentence: “Thou shalt not make to thee any graven image, &c., so as to worship it.” (See the explanation of Josephus, Ant. Jud., iii. 5, § 5: ‘Ο δεύτερος λóγος κελεύει μηδένος εἰκόνα ζώον ποιήσαντας προσκυνεῖν.)"Shibbolethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416527390586867795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-85683894475888630962018-05-19T09:21:09.190-07:002018-05-19T09:21:09.190-07:00Log wrote: "Commandment 2 means you shall not...Log wrote: "Commandment 2 means you shall not make for your own purposes any representational object, nor shall you make for your own purposes any picture, painting, drawing, or anything like unto these, of anything which exists. This ends most visual media, marketing, film, TV, photography, selfies, and so on.<br /><br />Not only that but it also says you shall not bow yourself down before such things, nor shall you serve - maintain, obey, advance the interests of - such things. This means no responding to visual advertisements or marketing. No taking care of such things. No marketing such things. No selling such things. And, of course, literally not bowing before such things."<br /><br />But what of this?<br /><br />"...You can refuse to believe, but you will see in me a sign and remember this saying: When Moses nailed a brass serpent upon a pole in the wilderness, he prophesied of me. And I shall also be nailed upon a tree, and those who believe on me will receive deliverance through my sacrifice, even as Israel was delivered by looking with faith at Moses’ serpent."<br />(Testimony of John 2:3, RE.)<br /><br />"...And the Lord said unto Moses, Make a fiery serpent and set it upon a pole. And it shall come to pass, that everyone that is bitten, when he looks upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass and put it upon a pole. And it came to pass that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."<br />(Exodus 10:7, RE.)<br /><br />"And the Lord spoke unto Moses saying...And you shall make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shall you make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end and the other cherub on the other end. Even of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on the two ends thereof. And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another..." (Exodus 14:1, RE.)<br /><br />"Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet; with cherubim of skillful work shall you make them." (Exodus 14:4, RE.)<br /><br />"And you shall make a veil of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of skillful work; with cherubim shall it be made..." (Exodus 14:7.)<br /><br />Was God telling Moses and the Children of Israel to break the law He just gave them at Sinai, or is this old commentary right here?<br /><br />" Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.—The two main clauses of the second commandment are to be read together, so as to form one sentence: “Thou shalt not make to thee any graven image, &c., so as to worship it.” (See the explanation of Josephus, Ant. Jud., iii. 5, § 5: ‘Ο δεύτερος λóγος κελεύει μηδένος εἰκόνα ζώον ποιήσαντας προσκυνεῖν.)"Shibbolethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10416527390586867795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-3283255109382556802018-05-18T09:04:27.726-07:002018-05-18T09:04:27.726-07:00Thanks for the etymology, McKay. For new readers, ...Thanks for the etymology, McKay. For new readers, McKay Platt was the author of this important blog post on this forum which fully explained what God meant when he spoke of "the only true and living church on face of the earth" in D&C 1:30:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2017/02/misquoting-god.html<br /><br />(Hey McKay, I couldn't help notice that with all your perfect grasp of English nuance, you still mis-spelled your own last name above.)Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-35374433457298486092018-05-17T20:29:00.576-07:002018-05-17T20:29:00.576-07:00To take it back to the Greek
A president sits bef...To take it back to the Greek <br />A president sits before- pre-before and side-sit<br />A bishop (episcopal) watches over. Epi-over, scopus-watch like microscope or telescope<br />An apostle is one sent- an apostle of the Lord is sent by the Lord<br />McKay PalttMc Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12025002791856283899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-77890342430549269622018-05-17T10:30:08.279-07:002018-05-17T10:30:08.279-07:00Underdog2,
To answer your question, I think the pr...Underdog2,<br />To answer your question, I think the problem is not the offices, but our skewed interpretation of what an office is supposed to convey. <br /><br />The term "president," for instance, should be taken to mean "one who presides," and that doesn't mean he is any kind of ruler. To preside means merely to be something like a chairman, a kind of referree. <br /><br />Look at how Americans today have a skewed view of what the president is; they think whoever is the president is the virtual king, which of course he is not. He is only charged with implementing and executing the laws that have been passed by the legislature, which are presumed to originate with the will of the people. He can exercise no will of his own. <br /><br />This idea that the president is somehow the ruler of America is the reason there is so much hostility against Trump from the left. They are afraid the king will impose his will upon them, not recognizing he has no authority over any single American. <br /><br />So, back to the president of the church. I would use the example of a judge in a courtroom, but even in that example, most Americans don't understand the duty of a judge (neither do most judges.)<br /><br />In a typical jury trial, the judge acts only as a referee. He sees that each party, prosecutor and defense, gets their proper turn at bat so to speak, and that the rules already established are properly adhered to. <br /><br />The sovereign in that courtroom is not the judge. It's the jury. He can't make any decision, all he can do is see to it that the Jury gets the opportunity to rule on the case.<br /><br />The difference between offices in the church in Joseph's day and today, is they had responsibilities, but none of those responsibilities had anything to do with dictating policy over the lives of the members. Joseph Smith certainly didn't feel he had any authority over any member.<br /><br />Today, your Church leader thinks he has the right to prohibit you from taking the sacrament, or guilting you into a calling you may not feel right for. Headquarters even dictates the form of our meetings and in which order the hymns, prayers, and talks take place, though both the D&c and BofM teach that worship is to take place as the spirit directs.<br /><br />And let's not forget that section 107 lays out the various offices in such a way as to prevent a hierarchy from forming. (Brigham Young ignored those instructions once he took power). First Presidency, Apostles, Seventy, High Council, were all equal in authority; none was ascendant. I was told by a member of the Quorum of the Seventy that the job of the Seventy is to act under the direction of the Twelve. That sort of corruption brought us the catastrophe carried out by Malcolm Jeppson who believed it his duty to ruin lives by following the orders of Boyd K. Packer<br /><br /> https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/christine-jeppsen-clark-daughter-of-general-authority-malcolm-jeppsen/<br /><br />In short, an "office" means nothing more than a specific job or responsibility, such as the office of an apostle to go abroad and preach the gospel. That office bestows no power over another person or group of persons. In Joseph's day "officer" didn't hold the meaning it does today. <br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29754294104627323542018-05-17T08:53:50.488-07:002018-05-17T08:53:50.488-07:00MrHFMetz,
Thanks for that correction on the link t...MrHFMetz,<br />Thanks for that correction on the link to the Damon Smith interview. I was going by what I had already posted in that blog post, directing the reader to the part of the interview from which I had excerpted. I had totally forgotten there were previous segments.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-76607003032298024192018-05-17T08:49:47.208-07:002018-05-17T08:49:47.208-07:00Part 2 of 2
The question for any mainstream LDS r...Part 2 of 2<br /><br />The question for any mainstream LDS reading this is: should there be a hierarchy among men? Ever? Should one man be esteemed more than another? <br /><br />When the people of Alma (the repentant priest of Noah) tried to make him Noah's replacement -- a king -- Alma strongly rebuked the notion: "...it is not expedient that we should have a king; for thus saith the Lord: Ye shall not esteem one flesh above another, or one man shall not think himself above another; therefore I say unto you it is not expedient that ye should have a king."<br /><br />Alma did, however, say hypothetically that a having a king isn't a bad idea IF you ALWAYS could have just men to be kings. Alma was a just man, but he refused. Mosiah, a seer, was inspired by Alma's-stated truth as well, and agreed to end of the reign of the kings with his death. You'll recall the Brother of Jared and Jared and all their kids (but the last) wisely refused to be king, because as the Br. of Jared warned (Ether 6:23), having a king would create a political class, unequalness, iniquity, corruption, and inevitably lead "into captivity" where the tradition of liberty was stripped from the people.<br /><br />Rock, I'm not sure if I'm articulating this right, but do you think it's accurate to say Joseph Smith screwed up on allowing this Trojan Horse idea of "offices" into the Church? Seems that ANY office could be construed as a hierarchy. The whole idea of someone "presiding" seems to be a bad idea in light of the fact "that it is the disposition of almost all men" to try to control others. Or did Joseph understand the dangers, but proceed because the people wanted it? <br /><br />We know Jesus didn't screw up, and he DID set up what appears to be a hierarchy with the calling of 12 and 70. It seems that a hierarchy is kryptonite to establishing Zion. In other words, Jesus intentionally placed kryptonite in the Church, as well did Joseph. The result was the same: no Zion.<br /><br />Now, with the foundation of Zion being laid, we see EQUALITY being heavily preached and practiced, and all signs of kryptonite hierarchy being done away with.Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29866796379629687522018-05-17T08:49:19.431-07:002018-05-17T08:49:19.431-07:00Part 1 of 2
Rock said, "[The Campbellites] i...Part 1 of 2<br /><br />Rock said, "[The Campbellites] interpreted it to mean a restoration of the "church" organization. Problem was, the primitive church was not organized, those "offices" were duties and responsibilities, not rankings and offices. So rather than "Mormonism" being patterned after the ways of the Book of Mormon, it came to be patterned after the New Testament and later."<br /><br />I can see that the Campbellite way of thinking has permeated my perspectives quite deeply. The distinction you make between what a priesthood "office" means is critical. <br /><br />I have always believed a priesthood office had more to do with rank and stature than duties and responsibilities, and I might add 'gifts of the spirit'. I must state this more accurately...I have believed priesthood offices were hierarchical in nature, and the higher office was based on spiritual maturity or possessing more divine gifts. I had blindly PRESUMED the spiritual gifts were obviously bestowed upon those of higher rank, esp with reference to apostle or patriarch. This Campbellite mindset naturally creates an inequality among members, thus creating the prideful sin of iniquity, which the BoM warns about over and over. In summary, I had assumed offices were synonymous with those duties and gifts of the spirit.<br /><br />For example, if one is ordained a "prophet, seer, revelator," then I had falsely assumed those spiritual gifts were automatic. What an incredible unfounded and illogical conclusion to have jumped to. But yes, I had naively and blindly assumed that very thing when I had no business making such blanket assumptions.<br /><br /><br />DC 107:91-92 (also see http://scriptures.info/scriptures/tc/section/59) says it well about the relationship between somebody ordained to a certain office, and their duties. Referring to the president of the Church, an "office" (though not an office in the priesthood): his "duty...is..to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church," the Head of course being Jesus Himself.<br /><br />So man may possess a so-called "high" office like president or be "ordained" to the office of apostle, but that doesn't automatically grant any spiritual gifts. However, it is the president's job or his duty to "BE" a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet." To me, now it seems obvious that first you "are" (a form of the verb, "to be"), and then you obtain the office. <br /><br />The Campbellite way of thinking is insidiously dangerous, as it creates fertile ground for idolatry to start, to be nurtured, and even to flourish. It creates inequality and therefore iniquity in the Church by dividing members into classes, again, something the BoM repeatedly points out as a characteristic of developing apostasy.Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38345759033099506842018-05-17T02:08:36.567-07:002018-05-17T02:08:36.567-07:00Dear brother Rock, at May 16, 8.42 AM you refer to...Dear brother Rock, at May 16, 8.42 AM you refer to the interview with Daymon Smith. By clicking on the link we only get part 2 of the interview (mormon stories 152). If I am not mistaken we find the whole interview on mormon stories 149 - 152 (that is four parts) by clicking on https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/daymon-smith-on-correlation-the-corporate-lds-church-and-mammon/<br />About the corporation that owns the mormons; indeed we are the propery of this one man corporation, it seems. It was clever financial man President Heber J Grant who came up with that idea (among many other not very good ideas, but that's another story).<br />I suppose he was the right man in the right place on the right time. The financial schemes were carefully hidden from the people back then. Anyway,we have to assume that the people get the leadership they deserve, according to their faith. That principle still applies today.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-77902248495114183792018-05-16T10:58:49.103-07:002018-05-16T10:58:49.103-07:00Thanks much!!Thanks much!!Janeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371055338461455376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27923331797229241452018-05-16T10:24:07.570-07:002018-05-16T10:24:07.570-07:00Once again Eric, you are being led astray by the g...Once again Eric, you are being led astray by the greatandmarvelouswork bloggers, which again goes to show that cursed is he who puts his trust in the arm of flesh. <br /><br />I'm sure you'll likely reply that Joseph Smith made the entire D&C up or that he received it from Satan. Or you'll try to say that these revelations are revisionist history or something. Isn't that the greatandmarvelouswork blogger argument? Joseph was never commanded to organize a church. There is no record of him receiving such a commandment prior to the organization of the church right? <br /><br />To which I'll have to remind you that the first book of Nephi was written many years after the events happened as well, and Mormon could have easily made revisions to the BOM when he made his abridgment of events that transpired hundreds of years earlier. We have no contemporary evidence that Lehi was actually commanded by God to lead his family into the desert, or that Nephi was commanded to build a ship. Heck we have no contemporary evidence that Alma was sent by God to set in order the church throughout the lands of the Nephites, or let alone that the Nephites even existed.<br /><br />Oh that greatandmarvelouswork website sure has a lot of garbage arguments. All they do is cry foul, attack Joseph Smith, attack the LDS church and its members, but cannot point anyone to where the truth is to be found. Where are the true saints of God? Where is Christ's true church? <br /><br />...crickets...Joseph Smith was a liar, a fraud, an evil man...he did give us the BOM...but otherwise he's a scoundrel working for Satan...the LDS church is a dead corpse...oh wait it was never alive...there is no church of Christ...there is no hope...there is no baptism...there is no authority from God...but yeah we're not working for Satan...listen to us we have the answers...MChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617695434474157417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14672470081504241252018-05-16T10:23:43.276-07:002018-05-16T10:23:43.276-07:00Eric,
Of course the Christ's church was never...Eric,<br /><br />Of course the Christ's church was never intended to be a corporation. That didn't happen until the days of Heber J. Grant. That is one of the many things that are currently out of order or of course in the church.<br /><br />In order for the church to be of course, out of order, or to use your words "dead" it had to have at some point been on course, in order, or alive.<br /><br />The D&C is very clear that at one point the church was on course, in order, alive, etc. <br /><br />Yes the Lord's church is an organization. This is also clear from the scriptures. The D&C clearly outlines the organization of the church. You'll have to study the D&C. It's all there. Here's a few verses showing very clearly that the Lord's church is to be organized. <br /><br />D&C 21 (Which was a revelation to Joseph Smith April 6. 1830, the day the church was organized)<br /><br />1 Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ,<br /><br />2 Being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof, and to build it up unto the most holy faith.<br /><br />3 Which church was ORGANIZED and established in the year of your Lord eighteen hundred and thirty, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.<br /><br />4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;<br /><br />D&C 44 (Revelation to Joseph Smith February 1831)<br /><br />4 And many shall be converted, insomuch that ye shall obtain power to ORGANIZE yourselves according to the laws of man;<br /><br />5 That your enemies may not have power over you; that you may be preserved in all things; that you may be enabled to keep my laws; that every bond may be broken wherewith the enemy seeketh to destroy my people.<br /><br />D&C 1 (Revelation to Joseph Smith November 1831)<br /><br />29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.<br /><br />30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—<br /><br />31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;<br /><br />D&C 1 was given after many commandments had already been given outlining the organization of the church. It was to be a preface to the Book of Commandments. So who is right here, you or the Lord when he defines what his church is?MChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617695434474157417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-56301433396447578622018-05-16T10:08:02.305-07:002018-05-16T10:08:02.305-07:00Uh-oh, Eric. Looks like your on the radar now.
Br...Uh-oh, Eric. Looks like your on the radar now.<br /><br />Brace you'reself. <br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-51056976577845085272018-05-16T09:52:39.251-07:002018-05-16T09:52:39.251-07:00Eric Kuntz,
It's "you're" not &...Eric Kuntz,<br /><br />It's "you're" not "your".<br />Sorry, but it really bugs me when people get this very simple English wrong.Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07821352042750367654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39031044112752656312018-05-16T08:42:32.877-07:002018-05-16T08:42:32.877-07:00Janeen,
It's titled "The Book of Mammon: ...Janeen,<br />It's titled "The Book of Mammon: A Book About A Book About The Corporation That Owns The Mormons"<br /><br />https://www.amazon.com/Book-Mammon-About-Corporation-Mormons/dp/1451553706/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358661841&sr=1-1&keywords=the+book+of+mammon<br /><br />The blog post from which that interview is excerpted is "City Creek: How Did We Come To This?"<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2013/01/city-creek-how-did-we-come-to-this.html<br /><br />And the full interview is available here:<br /><br />http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/1/f/91f320f4aa900df5/MormonStories-152-DaymonSmithPt4.mp3?c_id=7384578&expiration=1526492095&hwt=245bd0fdd0a766eb44fadba061a82e33<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-75029388099019843442018-05-16T00:08:46.169-07:002018-05-16T00:08:46.169-07:00Roycelerwick,
I did warn you mate!
Six wordy posts...Roycelerwick,<br />I did warn you mate!<br />Six wordy posts without properly addressing any of your points, and most of those posts were someone elses work!<br />This is very typical.Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07821352042750367654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-50539922138702267532018-05-15T23:04:55.562-07:002018-05-15T23:04:55.562-07:00Is the referred to book by Damon Smith in print?Is the referred to book by Damon Smith in print?Janeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371055338461455376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90146110914054998952018-05-15T20:26:42.543-07:002018-05-15T20:26:42.543-07:00If your referring to D&C 1:30 in which the Lor...If your referring to D&C 1:30 in which the Lord says ".. the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually— ". <br /><br />The 'church' He is referring to has nothing to do with any organized religion. The 'church' here, He is talking about his people, the baptized people of the Lord. <br /><br />The 'church' that the Lord is speaking to is something that can repent, that can be forgiven, that the Spirit can strive with. A dead CORPSEoration can't do any of those things. Only people can repent.Eric Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00701839435404901159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52255837097139446972018-05-15T16:54:41.225-07:002018-05-15T16:54:41.225-07:00"Not only that but it also says you shall not..."Not only that but it also says you shall not bow yourself down before such things, nor shall you serve - maintain, obey, advance the interests of - such things. This means no responding to visual advertisements or marketing. No taking care of such things. No marketing such things. No selling such things. And, of course, literally not bowing before such things.<br /><br />Commandment 10 ends all business transactions for money - for business transactions occur because at least one of the two parties covets the other's possessions, in particular, their money. It ends bartering as well for the same reason."<br /><br />Hello Jared.<br /><br />So are you saying it's wrong to work for wages or commissions?<br /><br />Would it be wrong to sell insurance or security systems?<br /><br />Would it be wrong to work as a salesman for ADT?<br /><br />And isn't that what you do for a living Jared?<br /><br />Don't you work as a salesman for ADT?<br /><br />Is that wrong?<br /><br />And is it wrong for a licenses attorney with a law degree to accept fees for his legal services?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12643585774566460836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-28973038018509444452018-05-15T16:29:57.930-07:002018-05-15T16:29:57.930-07:00According to Christ's words in the D&C the...According to Christ's words in the D&C the church was on course at one point. <br /><br />But you are of course free to reject the word of God and promote the agenda of the greatandmarvelouswork bloggers if you want.<br /><br />What does the BOM say will happen to those who reject God's word and instead put their trust in the arm of flesh?Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65128558404162212018-05-15T13:47:58.270-07:002018-05-15T13:47:58.270-07:00Well, Eric, I kinda have to disagree with you when...Well, Eric, I kinda have to disagree with you when you say the church was never on course. At the same time, you're not entirely wrong, since some of the first converts, late of the Campbellite persuasion, ended up folding some of their own beliefs and expectations into what came to be known as "Mormonism."<br /><br />These were the members of the religious commune living at Morley's farm, and included Sidney Rigdon and Parley P. Pratt. The Campbellites were seeking a church resembling the New Testament Church with apostles, priests, teachers, etc. and when they saw the word "restoration" in the Book of Mormon, they gave it their own interpretation. They interpreted it to mean a restoration of the "church" organization. Problem was, the primitive church was not organized, those "offices" were duties and responsibilities, not rankings and offices.<br /><br />So rather than "Mormonism" being patterned after the ways of the Book of Mormon, it came to be patterned after the New Testament and later. So yes, in a way, the church never was perfectly on course, at least not after the Campbellite converts came on board. The ramifications of those false teachings are carried on even today. The Campbellite method of determining "which church is true" has little to do with doctrine and much to do with what it looks like. Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-298882910390374492018-05-15T13:17:16.626-07:002018-05-15T13:17:16.626-07:00It was never on course. The truth hurts only if yo...It was never on course. The truth hurts only if you have agenda you are protecting, otherwise:<br /><br />...the truth shall make you free. John 8:32<br /><br />Eric Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00701839435404901159noreply@blogger.com