tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post6452417836304240171..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Vengeance And The Latter-Day SaintAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger309125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-73401538533106685202017-05-21T08:44:59.312-07:002017-05-21T08:44:59.312-07:00I read the post again. Thanks for it and for your ...I read the post again. Thanks for it and for your righteous anger. It is definitely the most powerful post of them all, in my opinion. I saw the video "Let not your hearts be troubled". At first it seemed not possible, but I just opened Youtube and typed in this title, adding the word mormon at the end, and it came up. The video is a disgrace. Actually I feel ashamed to be identified with the mormons, after watching this garbage.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39861482840200951012016-03-27T14:24:21.288-07:002016-03-27T14:24:21.288-07:00The same desire for vengeance will again grip this...The same desire for vengeance will again grip this church in the coming years. By 2023 our Bill of Rights will have been infringed upon as a nation, and perhaps nowhere more clearly than along the Wasatch Front. Bitterness will seethe among devout members as the government constrains the church to perform gay marriages and turn over assets. Mitt Romney's name will be in the mix with a critical Supreme Court decision over the Presidency. I fear for his life. One we now know seeks to show his true colors and rule this land with an iron rod. The printer's ink will be mixed with blood.<br /><br />When America's military forces are nuked over Saudi Arabia some years from now, a spirit of vengeance will overwhelm the people after a short period of mourning. When Russia nukes some of our cities, and then 2 years later nukes many more and ultimately invades our lands, bitterness and undying hatred will consume the vast majority of survivors.<br /><br />I weep in the spirit for those who cannot find forgiveness in themselves and understand that this is God's will against us for having turned our back against the Holy Spirit and the commandments of Jesus Christ. Their souls are bound with cords tied directly to the gates of hell, and for many the days of their probation will terminate before they have that change of heart that is mighty to save.JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993976374069209015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-8988405298544220882015-10-31T04:36:38.871-07:002015-10-31T04:36:38.871-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-35933301456520326082015-10-30T14:10:59.792-07:002015-10-30T14:10:59.792-07:00While reading this shocking post I tried to watch ...While reading this shocking post I tried to watch the video "let not your heart be troubled", on several computers and with several browsers but it was impossible to open it. Anyway the information in the post regarding the church's attitude on the Iraq war is clear enough: this is apostacy.<br />Again the LDS scripture concerning warfare is pointed out, and rightly so because in Sunday School we hear nothing about it. <br />D&C 98 appears to be crucial on the issue; but also on the position of constitutional law and state law on the one hand and the law of God on the other. I find it remarkable that vers 4 of this section is usually overlooked, although it reveals a fundamental principle right there. It clearly says that the Lord expects us to observe to do all things whatsoever the Lord commands us; here the Lord explains to us that this is His law also concerning the laws of the land. So if the two become contrary we are to obey the higher law, which is the word of God: His laws. I can see no other explanation of this piece of scripture. No church can deviate from that principle without becoming apostate.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34097217824365709722015-01-21T05:37:06.273-08:002015-01-21T05:37:06.273-08:00This is a prime example of how the blind follow th...This is a prime example of how the blind follow their blind leaders and fall in the ditch together. Following a psychopath president who is going to war for the aggrandizement of his own ego.<br />With deadly result. Literaly! I fully understand your anger.<br />I still remember the day that America invaded Iraq, and I thought: will the Americans ever learn, so – relatively – short after the Vietnam debacle? I am grateful for the intervention of your country during the second world war, but that was an entirely different situation.<br />What is especially shocking to me, is the role the LDS church played, in particular some of the “general authorities” as described in this blog. This church has become a dangerous cult, when its leaders so brazenly speak contrary to the scriptures.<br />There is a warning in the D&C for those among us, overrighteous Mormons, who pay their tithings and don't drink a cup of tea, attend their meetings, go to the temple, and feel they are the apple of God's eye, but who swallow pills like these; who are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men; this is about you, and it is in your own D&C, section 76, vers 75. <br />R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34632955642554373792015-01-21T05:33:50.688-08:002015-01-21T05:33:50.688-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26765818486557168662014-07-09T13:33:40.936-07:002014-07-09T13:33:40.936-07:00Rock,
I have been reading a couple of books the l...Rock,<br /><br />I have been reading a couple of books the last little while. The first one is entitled, "The Pity of War: Explaining World War I", by Niall Ferguson. The second is "Pearl Harbor: The Seeds and Fruits of Infamy", by Percy L. Greaves Jr. <br /><br />What I find interesting about these books is that they show World War I and World War II were unnecessary. Both authors use extensive, original source documentation which backs up their claims. They show the political manipulations going on behind the scenes. They also show that U.S. involvement made things worse and caused a great increase in death and destruction during these conflicts. Talk about evil and conspiring men. <br /><br />World War I did not "make the world safe for democracy"! World War II did not save the world from being taken over by Hitler. These two ideas which we have been conditioned to believe were marketing ploys (lies by PR firms) to sell the American Public on these wars. Again, evil and conspiring men!<br /><br />I highly recommend these books for anyone wanting to know the real histories of WWI and WWII. They are available at Amazon.Gary Huntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68302029748762494142014-07-02T06:32:14.833-07:002014-07-02T06:32:14.833-07:00Retired MIT professor, Noam Chomsky, offers a sobe...Retired MIT professor, Noam Chomsky, offers a sobering and remarkably fresh assessment of US foreign policy in a new article, 'America’s corporate doctrine of power a grave threat to humanity - The United States' foreign policy is increasingly guided by the concerns of the few - at a terrible cost to us all.'<br /><br />http://www.salon.com/2014/07/01/noam_chomsky_americas_corporate_doctrine_of_power_a_grave_threat_to_humanity/ <br /><br />Bloodshed in the name of profit sounds consistent with the last days and a recipe for insuring God's declining support for America. The many members of the Church™ who believe just being American is evidence of our moral superiority may be in for a rude shock to learn that the state may not be committed to their well-being. Vincenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-74390497539740324482014-06-30T13:47:37.905-07:002014-06-30T13:47:37.905-07:00Sarah Hancock,
The quote about your ancestors can ...Sarah Hancock,<br />The quote about your ancestors can be found in Bill Shepard's article "The Concept of the 'Rejected Gospel' in the Journal of Mormon History here:<br /><br />http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/mormonhistory/vol34/iss3/1/<br /><br />(I provided a link in the article) <br /><br />You may not be able to access anything other than the table of contents unless you're a subscriber, but you can purchase a single issue. Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-41684388410209758252014-06-29T09:16:51.216-07:002014-06-29T09:16:51.216-07:00Dale B.,
Christ was the one who banned all divor...Dale B., <br /><br />Christ was the one who banned all divorce and remarriage, but that doesn't mean he wanted or said that anyone had to or should stay living with an abusive/adulterous spouse. You can still stay faithful to your vows without living with your spouse if they are abusive. <br /><br />And yes, all marriages will eventually succeed and be healed and happy, especially in the next life when all partners repent. <br /><br />For everyone has to eventually repent and become righteous, it's just much easier to do here, then in the hereafter. <br /><br />But I think both churches and governments should stay out of marriage, for neither one has any real authority to create or dissolve a marriage, no matter how much they may pretend to. <br /><br />Marriage is really just between the couple and God. All anyone else can do is just witness their vows to each other and help them keep them. <br /> <br />BKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39413749303333253992014-06-29T08:24:11.943-07:002014-06-29T08:24:11.943-07:00Rock - my name is Sarah Hancock Jones and I'm ...Rock - my name is Sarah Hancock Jones and I'm a direct descendant of Mosiah and Levi Hancock. I've heard stories about them all of my life, but I'd never heard this one. I'd love the source. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-25151984478682386722014-06-09T14:26:29.802-07:002014-06-09T14:26:29.802-07:00So, what is the right approach for marriage? I ag...So, what is the right approach for marriage? I agree that the State should have little to do with it, except for the fact that the laws of the state are used to pick up the pieces when/if a marriage falls apart. The state provides some rules in what could otherwise be an even uglier process and circumstance. Right now, I think those rules pretty much stink, but I think having no rules could be much worse. <br /><br />I think much of what has been said about this issue also shows that the Church has relatively little business in this arena either. Certainly a Church which can effectively "approve" or "disapprove" of someone's marriage or divorce can only serve to rub salt in the wounds of someone who feels that they've been victimized by divorce. Unless the Bishop (or other official) has the wisdom of Solomon or direct revelation from God they will be unable to accurately determine what the true issues are in the marriage/divorce. <br /><br />Getting rid of the 'stamp of approval' that is the temple recommend is probably a good start. At this point, I'm not convinced that the modern temple ceremony is really a good idea in any case. I don't find much evidence for it in any of the standard works. I'm not sure I understand it's role in LDS life in Kirtland, but that might be more like what is found in the Bible. How can something, which is supposed to be so central to our religion, have so little written about it in 6,000+ years?<br /><br />Maybe marriage should just be a family affair, where a couple pledges to sustain each other and join the two families? Maybe all marriages should be common law marriages. It seems the state has little problem assuming authority in the marriage regardless of how it starts or who performs the ceremony.<br /><br />But, to think that if partners in every marriage really worked at it, they could all succeed, is simply naive. Banning divorce in all marriages with children is both naive and dangerous. Do you really want to force a woman is getting the &$!@ beat out of her every night to stay in that marriage? Will it improve a husband's 'attitude' to force him to live with someone that makes him miserable? Do you think that such arrangements are really healthy for children? Think about the circumstances and outcome of Henry VIII's marriages. It may have furthered God's purposes, but would your really like to be Anne Boleyn?<br /><br />We are all on Earth to learn something. We will all make mistakes. Some of us will make the same mistakes over and over. Finding the right partner can't be boiled down into a simple, foolproof process that people will get right 98% of the time. It's complex, it's confusing,it's hormonal, it's barely rational. Apparently, it's supposed to be that way. <br /><br />To make matters worse, people can and do change over time. Right now, my wife is not very happy that I'm not a TBM. I don't expect that she will ever be able to question the things I question, nor accept everything that I accept. I'm not the same person that she met and fell in love with. My goals and attitudes have changed. It is to her credit that she still loves me in spite of me, but if she got to a point where she couldn't handle it, would I be right to force her to stay in a relationship fundamentally different than the one she contemplated at it's inception?Dale Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91329624372851049942014-06-08T16:29:59.975-07:002014-06-08T16:29:59.975-07:00LDSPer,
I'm not offended in the least by your...LDSPer,<br /><br />I'm not offended in the least by your "radical" and "crazy" ideas. I have a few o them myselflysanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16272227599882660861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-23897107363967693092014-06-08T13:32:42.097-07:002014-06-08T13:32:42.097-07:00oh, BIG blooper--
probably the main cause of divo...oh, BIG blooper--<br /><br />probably the main cause of divorce right now, 2014--<br /><br />in the U.S. <br /><br /><br /><br />involvement in combat/military duty<br /><br />I should put that in bold.<br /><br />LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-53913823693129639642014-06-08T13:26:09.056-07:002014-06-08T13:26:09.056-07:00I used BK's story (worrying now that I shouldn...I used BK's story (worrying now that I shouldn't, even though she has shared all that), because her problem is and was that the church should help such women.<br /><br />But, which ones does the church help? Who is crying wolf (which you mentioned); who is not?<br /><br />It does seem that those who want to take care of themselves are loathe to ask for help--<br /><br />and won't get the help, while 'users' will take whatever they can get.<br /><br />Pure hearts are required for this, and there are precious few in the church--<br /><br />One of my precious (older) daughters went to church today and was 'glared at' by an older man in our ward who just has a stinky personality.<br /><br />When I had a particular calling, he came to me and complained, because this daughter had been asked to do something--<br /><br />that he felt his own daughter would be 'as good' or 'better' at--<br /><br />I told him that I would see what I could do about it; committments had been made--<br /><br />I came home, and my husband and I were talking about it, and she overheard (has amazing ears) and has refused, since, to do that particular thing again--<br /><br />But he didn't stop resenting this young woman who is between the age of two of his daughters, who also had mean-spirited personalities.<br /><br />She sighed when she told me, "Brother _______ glared at me"--<br /><br />this 'thing' happened 8 years ago--<br /><br />and then she said, "I know I have to feel sorry for him, mom; he's a very unhappy man."<br /><br />And yet when he is asked to give HC talks, he talks about how wonderful his wife and daughters are (he has a very large, very successful family)--<br /><br />Judgement, yes. You are right; it has to be righteous, and I do know and associate with plenty of divorcees (mostly women, because I am one); I do not discriminate against them--<br /><br />I know they are just victims--<br /><br />and I don't take for granted my husband and my almost 40 years--<br /><br />but I can tell you he has worked harder--<br /><br />and he did one thing right. Maybe just one thing, when he married me, besides which I had a testimony of Jesus even back then.<br /><br />That was that he married someone very loyal whose loyalties don't change and who was DETERMINED, no matter how many doors had to be slammed, to make the marriage work, because for *me* the thought of my husband being alone, again, after what happened to him when he was so young--<br /><br />tormented me. It would always bring the 'love' back.<br /><br />Plus, my father once said, "if you show up on my doorstep trying to leave that man, I'll slam the door in your face."<br /><br />It was good advice for me, though I was actually never tempted--<br /><br />because he's not an abusive man, and because my father had spiritual powers that saw into other people's hearts, and when he met my husband he said, "he'll do."<br /><br />None of the others had.<br /><br />I'm sorry you had to go through that to get a gem, lysander.<br /><br />And I'm sorry, again, if you felt I was judging you and anyone else who is divorced. There are those, probably, who deserve it--<br /><br />but who are they? *I* don't know.<br /><br />I just know that the system is broken completely--<br /><br />Now I've gone and been too long again--<br /><br />and I'll upset someone. I meant to stay off, but the Spirit said, "someone is going to be hurt by your words; go and clarify."<br /><br />But you beat me to it with so much grace.<br /><br />hugs to your wife.<br /><br />:)<br />LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57791700887070716472014-06-08T13:25:33.793-07:002014-06-08T13:25:33.793-07:00@lysander,
I don't think I've ever heard ...@lysander,<br /><br />I don't think I've ever heard a more intelligent *what would it be called* treatise, personal short essay--<br /><br />about divorce.<br /><br />You had no way of knowing that I was on my way back to the computer, hoping that someone had been willing to say something about my radical ideas.<br /><br />So I could continue and answer and even, yes, apologize.<br /><br />Oh, yes, apologize.<br /><br />Your humility does you great justice, and I have to say I believe, without knowing you, you are a great lawyer.<br /><br />This is the situation as *I* see it.<br /><br />1--I know women actually leave men more than men leave women; my own son was the victim of a very brutal divorce (long story; not up to talking about it; I don't even care if he is married anymore, because of that horrific treatment, but, yes, he is also very disabled, as is his 'wife'; the divorce was someone else's idea, not that of either of the couple, but once on board, his wife was heartless. Now I see my grandchildren in a very precarious place, because his wife can't take care of them, and he is not allowed to (for spite)<br /><br />2--a majority of people who divorce are victims of the complete dissolution of the 'institution' of marriage, whether male or female.<br /><br />What I am saying in my previous post is that I believe legal separations can help those who have just said too much and have doubts. I've known a number of people like that; nobody was abusing; both were discouraged; finances were awful and too much was said in anger--<br /><br />and *I* believe the church policy (I can't see where it is doctrine, because I, as do many LDS, have some serious reservations about D&C 132)--<br /><br />contributes to this by allowing a man to be sealed to more than one woman. I've seen widowed men become changed in personality the minute they knew they had 'more than one wife'--<br /><br />I can't explain it; I watched it happen to my own father.<br /><br />So, I wish that would change, but I doubt it will.<br /><br />3--I see soldiers/veterans of never-ended wars (beginning with Korea) as victims of a dissolving government as well. Everyone has different attitudes to begin with. There are those who think they are serving (as you did, believing you would never divorce and 'how could anyone do that?'--I've been married for almost 40 years, and I know exactly why people divorce--<br /><br />--exhaustion<br />--illness<br />--too much responsibility<br />--too little money<br />--too little time for couples to have together<br />--too much 'business' in the church (yes)<br />--problems with children<br /><br />or . . .<br /><br />--a clueless spouse (which your #1 sounded like; she sounds, sadly, like a victim of a 'be honest and do the best thing for yourself' crowd that hovers around unhappy women in and out of the church; I daresay she puts up a good front now, but she's probably unhappy, because what she did showed instability, selfishness and lack of committment. Sounds like she wasn't grounded in Jesus Christ, too.<br /><br />So much for not being judgemental, right. Sorry. Maybe she's a peach, and you're better off without her, but nobody is the 'bad guy' here.<br /><br />There is a powerful pro-divorce culture in our church. I've seen it enter wards and just take out 'solid' couples--<br />women get discontent; they aren't spiritually grounded; they have unresolved issues from the past--same with men.<br /><br />So, what I wrote I do still believe.<br /><br />But I believe in reaching out to the returning vets and trying to help them, and *our* government is doing everything to hurt and destroy and marginalize them.<br /><br />They are victims. Some of them may have been more willing victims than others, but they are victims.<br /><br />Until we acknowledge that our entire society (including the church) is broken, *we* are going to continue to lose *our* families--<br /><br />and it will only get worse.<br /><br />I see legal separation being used more as a stop gap--<br /><br />TBCLDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-58246688690548286672014-06-08T12:55:07.014-07:002014-06-08T12:55:07.014-07:00@LDSPer cont.
I believe I was led to do what I d...@LDSPer cont. <br /><br />I believe I was led to do what I do because of my ability to empathize. I actually resisted it but my lovely new wife of 9 years told me I would be good at it because of everything I've been through in my own life. She was right (as she often is). <br /><br />Now as to your questions. Yes there are protections in the law for legal seperations. I like your idea of couples doing that more often. <br /><br />I will say this though. In my experience, there are certainly situations like yiu describe where men seek to "put away" their wives and go out and get the latest model. That is not the norm. I find that in today's world, it is the women that use the law as a club against their poor husbands. I might be biased based in my own situation, but ask almost any divorce lawyer who they would rather represent, men or women, and I'd bet money on men. I've seen women make up stories of abuse just to get leverage. It's pretty unsavory. <br /><br />I wish I knew what the alternative would be to the present regime of family law and divorce. As a philosophical libertarian, it irks me how much the state gets involved in the family. I advise my clients to ALWAYS take into account the best interests of their children and to NEVER do anything just to get an advantage over the other spouse that would alienate their children against the other spouse. lysanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16272227599882660861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-58777412909782358762014-06-08T12:40:23.219-07:002014-06-08T12:40:23.219-07:00@LDSPer
When I was much younger I was extremely j...@LDSPer<br /><br />When I was much younger I was extremely judgmental of those I thought didn't "measure up" to gospel principles and commandments. I took the lord's counsel about divorce very seriously. My parents weren't divorced. None of my fiends parents were divorced. As far as I was concerned, if you got divorced, you were sinful or you weren't trying hard enough. <br /><br />After being married for 8 years, my wife sat me down one day and told me she didn't live me and that she never did. She claimed she only loved the "idea"of me. She said I had treated her so well that she would be stupid not to marry me. But she said she couldn't live a lie any more. I begged for her to just stay with me for the sake of the children we had, but she was determined she would have a better life apart from me. <br /><br />That totally altered my paradigm. I realized that I had not done anything that led to the divorce. I realized that those who I had judged before might not be as "guilty" as I had supposed. I realized that I had judged unrighteously. I'm very sinful. But where was my sin in this? If I hadn't agreed to it, she would have filed anyway and the result would have been the same. lysanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16272227599882660861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-74521559022303628202014-06-07T13:43:31.290-07:002014-06-07T13:43:31.290-07:00and, yes, I've seen men 'taken' by div...and, yes, I've seen men 'taken' by divorce, too.<br /><br />No divorce for couples with children should protect the scrupulous spouse.<br /><br />More often than not the man who has 'left' a wife will leave another. And more often than not, the women who has chosen unwisely will choose again.<br /><br />I know women who have chosen not to remarry to protect their children from abuse by stepfathers.<br /><br />LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-75364240142929678942014-06-07T13:41:33.629-07:002014-06-07T13:41:33.629-07:00@lysander,
I may be wrong, and, if so, I'm gl...@lysander,<br /><br />I may be wrong, and, if so, I'm glad you spoke up. Aren't there provisions for protection for abuse in legal separation?<br /><br />I'm sure there would be enough legal separations to keep lawyers employed.<br /><br />*wink*<br /><br />The problem with divorce (not separation, legal) is that a man can abandon a family, more or less--<br />and even with alimony laws in place, the original family ends up being robbed, even with legal representation. What if the husband has a smarter lawyer, for example.<br />And then, if/when that man remarries, if his wife chooses not to, for personal reasons, such as believing she is still married--<br /><br />(I've known more than one woman who gave in to divorce and did not want it and resisted the idea of being divorced spiritually)<br /><br />he marries again and invests more in the second family, and eventually does a good job of showing the 'world' how much better wife #2 is--<br /><br />it's a quagmire.<br /><br />A woman who does not want it but who is forced to accept it is in a bind. Rarely will she earn as much as her 'former' husband, even if she has an education. And, probably, if she is 'good LDS' she's been home with children and is now forced to leave them.<br /><br />I know you are correct, but it becomes a game of 'who has the best lawyer?'--<br /><br />and often men are more astute at choosing lawyers.<br /><br />They've been out 'in the world'.<br /><br />LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-49648267802662514872014-06-07T12:56:50.299-07:002014-06-07T12:56:50.299-07:00Well LDSPer,
As a lawyer who practices family law...Well LDSPer,<br /><br />As a lawyer who practices family law I am HIGHLY offended by your comments. <br /><br />Just kidding actually. I think the government should get out of the family. But until that happens, people unfortunately can be taken advantage of without representation. lysanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16272227599882660861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-19737963128759717632014-06-07T10:37:40.956-07:002014-06-07T10:37:40.956-07:00my preferred solution is that marriage not be regu...my preferred solution is that marriage not be regulated by government in any way--<br /><br />and then, of course, in the case of *we* LDS *we* have to comply with the laws of our religion which now state that people can marry over and over and over again--<br /><br />I think, too, that Mormons need something like the Amish, where they live together without physical relations for a time--<br /><br />I think young people should be required to know each other better--<br /><br />and you can't get to know someone better if you have stars in your eyes, which biology causes.<br /><br />Our system is broken from beginning to end--<br /><br />but God's isn't.LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66222818987842227192014-06-07T10:35:25.392-07:002014-06-07T10:35:25.392-07:00my radical answer to today's divorce and remar...my radical answer to today's divorce and remarriage problem--<br /><br />which would not 'fly' in the church, because of polygamy, probably--<br /><br />If there are no children, there can be a legal divorce.<br /><br />Divorce is such a big business, that lawyers would not, ever, allow this sort of change, so I am very aware it will never happen.<br /><br />If one partner is leaving another, because he/she thinks he/she can have children with another person, then let him/her suffer the consequences. The spouse who is suspected of being unable to father/mother children will be better off without such a cruel, carnal person.<br /><br />If there are children, there can be a legal separation.<br /><br />The 'wrongdoer', or the spouse who has misbehaved, if one exists--<br /><br />sleeps in a small studio home on the back of the property. It will take some $ to build, but much less than a divorce. <br /><br />If there is no wrongdoer, and both want the legal separation, since divorce won't be allowed, the parents take turns living in the house with the children. Any parent who misbehaves has to leave and go to the little house in back. Legally required.<br /><br />The children do not lose stability.<br /><br />If either of the parents decide they don't like celibacy, they can work things out--<br /><br />or commit real adultery, but not on the property and not with money needed by the family. The person who does so becomes a 'bad guy' and has to repent if he/she wants to try again.<br /><br />But at least it would be called what it is: adultery.<br /><br />If they can be chaste and don't want to work things out, the children's lives are not disrupted.<br /><br />The children must always come first.<br /><br />No divorces allowed for couples with children. Ever.<br /><br />I have known of several people who have tried legal separation. One couple came back together again and have been, happily, together for 10 years. One was being selfish and needed to repent; the time was given, but good behavior was rewarded by being able to 'come home'.<br /><br />The couple actually got pregnant when the repentant spouse came home.<br /><br />But they were married still, so it was no problem. A decision was then made that the marriage could go on.<br /><br />Divorce is NEVER the solution when there are children. <br /><br />If there is abuse, the abusive spouse has to live separately with no contact until full repentance.<br /><br />If children have been abused--<br /><br />that man or woman will go on to marry again and do it again if not stopped.<br /><br />Still, living alone is the solution until there is complete change.<br /><br />It is VERY easy for people to cover up abuse by divorcing and remarrying.<br /><br />LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-64988292087499925792014-06-07T08:54:37.608-07:002014-06-07T08:54:37.608-07:00oh, a bit of a joke about divorce and abandoned (i...oh, a bit of a joke about divorce and abandoned (in my husband's case, completely; he ended up a ward of the state)--<br /><br />kids--<br /><br />when my husband joined the church after college graduation (he put himself through)--<br /><br />he didn't have to worry about family protesting; there was nobody to protest!!! :)<br /><br />When he went on a mission he didn't know about farewells and open houses, etc., coming or going.<br /><br />He had homesick companions, and he couldn't understand. He had never been homesick; he had had no home to be 'sick' for--<br /><br />and, finally, when he flew into the SLC airport (he joined the church in Utah)--<br /><br />to figure out what he was going to do with the rest of his life--<br /><br />there was, of course, nobody there to pick him up.<br /><br />He watched all the loving family reunions and couldn't wrap his mind around them.<br /><br />He met me shortly thereafter, and we were married almost immediately.<br /><br />He's never had to arrive somewhere and not have a ride. I've always been there, waiting.<br /><br /><br />And I can tell you he has worked EXTRA hard to make our marriage work, probably harder than the average man. And I, too, because I don't like the thought of him being alone again.<br /><br />Sometimes good things come out of divorce, in spite of the pain and never-ending baggage.LDSDPernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-88436594623119906822014-06-07T08:45:57.334-07:002014-06-07T08:45:57.334-07:00@Dale B,
I hope you don't mind if I put my oa...@Dale B,<br /><br />I hope you don't mind if I put my oar in.<br /><br />Short, Mike. :) *ha*<br /><br />I have always believed as BK believes about divorce and remarriage. I think the thing that bothers BK (BK, I hope you don't mind my speaking up about you)<br />is that she was her husband's first wife and he her first husband. He divorced her with a large number of children and left her without enough to take care of those children, and she had to leave the children to work, so they wouldn't go hungry. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic here. <br /><br />Then he remarried, in the temple--<br /><br />and was sealed again. The anger is as much for his being permitted to be resealed (as though he had done a little thing in leaving a family) as for the divorce, or even remarriage.<br /><br />There are always two sides in every conflict, of course. But in many ways she was the victim, because he regained his 'status' in the church, while she struggled along, and has made the point, one of her children is now an atheist. Another child was married without her presence, because that child chose the temple and *our* BK decided she could not countenance a religion that would allow a man who had done that to a family to--<br /><br />be in the temple.<br /><br />She has some pretty severe personal grievances, and I have to admit that I side with her here. I have seen this many times. Husband decides it's too hard to get along with someone, divorces and goes on his merry way.<br /><br />Only, I believe, BK told us some time ago, I think it was her--<br /><br />that he had gone on and done it again.<br /><br />I DO believe in repentance, Dale. I think humility and confession (to God) matter a lot.<br /><br />I know people who have been treated so badly by spouses who ended up marrying again, because they couldn't live alone, couldn't take care of themselves.<br /><br />I might wish the culture were different. I might be trying to change it in my life. Ours is a first marriage, almost 40 years. But we have to repent all the time of not being perfect partners.<br /><br />But I would never tell those innocent people who have remarried (a very fragile niece for one) that they are wrong.<br /><br />It's not my place or my business. Jesus gave that rule/law, and it is up to each individual to live it and reap the blessings or not to live it and suffer. But I do believe, very much, in repentance, so it's not my business to tell anyone else he/she has made a mistake.<br /><br />But it is my business to note a trend. And the trend I note is a lot of abandoned wives and children and happy-on-his-way husbands, because of the policy that a man can be sealed again.<br /><br />I don't think that's right, and I think the 'brethren' are culpable.<br /><br />I also know first hand what it is like to be married to someone who suffered from a horrible childhood, the suffering of which was caused by divorce and--<br /><br />the selfishness of a father. Who did remarry and treated #2 no better. But my husband was not around to witness it. #2 didn't want him. Guess who ended up completely unwanted?<br /><br /><br />It never goes away. But I will shake your hand, Dale.<br /><br />I won't pull away from you.<br /><br />But I'd like to give BK a hug.<br /><br />I agree with much of what you say, Dale. You really are a truthseeker.LDSDPernoreply@blogger.com