tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post3836041259848572000..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Too Bad I Don't Like BeerAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger257125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81602775143158948102015-02-01T03:24:49.659-08:002015-02-01T03:24:49.659-08:00First off let me say that I drink beer and I'm...First off let me say that I drink beer and I'm LDS. <br />Point one, when you say, "That's why Section 89 calls for moderation." your totally making things up, unless you are God or at least the prophet and if that's the case I retract everything I'm saying.<br />Point two, if you sustain the prophet, a basic part of being a worthy member of the church, drinking beer is then wrong regardless of every point you've made. <br />Point three, if your going to be lds and enjoy beer, like myself, just admit it's wrong, you'll be ok, but don't say what your doing it's right. Nephites drink alcohol, Joseph Smith, drink alcohol, Christ made alcohol and drank alcohol, but you cannot have alcohol and that's ok. Shoot there's probably even beer in heaven, but until then you can't have any without repenting. Just like having an awsome beard, wearing sandals to church, or polygamy...ect jk. But seriously commandments change, people change and prophets are just as human as you and I. God the Father, Christ and the Holy Ghost are the only ones who don't have to follow/sustain the prophet. So in my view every point you made is irrelevant, but at least you can be honest with yourself and if your doing wrong, you should at least admit to yourself it's wrong. You can still enjoy life if your imperfect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84787476712054213252014-07-02T07:13:30.755-07:002014-07-02T07:13:30.755-07:00Whoops, Z, I forgot to tell you what page: 486.Whoops, Z, I forgot to tell you what page: 486.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-16554765262888231762014-07-02T07:12:30.083-07:002014-07-02T07:12:30.083-07:00Z, thank you to alerting me to that broken link. Y...Z, thank you to alerting me to that broken link. You can find that quote near the bottom of the page in "An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith," Edited by Scott Faulring.<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69463713541706717832014-01-28T21:33:24.207-08:002014-01-28T21:33:24.207-08:00Try Redd's apple ale. It actually tastes REALL...Try Redd's apple ale. It actually tastes REALLY REALLY good! Not just tolerable, but delicious! Kind of like a martinellies sparkling cider!<br>Sorry, dont know the ingredients.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-8237072527343124242014-01-20T21:29:14.173-08:002014-01-20T21:29:14.173-08:00Beer is an acquired taste. Once you acquire it, yo...Beer is an acquired taste. Once you acquire it, you'll enjoy more of them. I'm sure this has been discussed many times over, but there are too many comments for me to scroll through. I began drinking in my twenties and found that really light beers were the most palatable. Then I began to appreciate stouts like Guinness. Stella Artois is a great-tasting light beer. <br><br>Thanks for posting this. I've been thinking about these same discrepancies for many years now and was surprised to find that other Mormons have been as frustrated and as confused as I've felt about the way parts of the WoW are ignored and others are ballooned way beyond proportion. Seems to me that eating too much meat is a much greater offense than drinking a beer, since meat requires the slaughter of another animal and in today's world with the abundance of food, that slaughter seems rather wonton. <br><br>I read this the other day and was surprised to see that WebMD lists so many positive health aspects of beer. <br><br>http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1007-BEER.aspx?activeIngredientId=1007&activeIngredientName=BEERNicolehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02447479916034764638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-45331075389860227562014-01-09T22:41:47.203-08:002014-01-09T22:41:47.203-08:00I wouldn't waste time with mass-produced crap ...I wouldn't waste time with mass-produced crap from Coors, Miller, Budweiser and the like. Find a microbrewery pub, order a flight of beer (several small samples), from light to dark, along with some tasty pub food (should be salty, which will make you thirstier for the beer), and sip away. It most definitely is an acquired taste. Cold beer is great when you're hot and thirsty, by the way. I seldom drink it anymore, and when we have a beer occasionally, that's one between us. Also, cannabis is also excellent for relaxation and stress release, as well as other more medicinal effects. Needn't be combined with beer drinking.kindfoodfarmhttp://kindfoodfarm.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27493204987683948482014-01-08T22:31:35.418-08:002014-01-08T22:31:35.418-08:00Well by golly, Mook, looks like I've been wron...Well by golly, Mook, looks like I've been wrong about that. I confess I thought that phrase was in section 89; turns out it's nowhere in the D&C at all.<br><br>Just goes to show we can't trust our conditioning. And here I am lecturing others for not having ever read the D&C. I've read it and put words into it that were not there.<br><br>From what I can determine, this teaching originated with Aristotle and is reflected in Buddhism as the middle way. It's scripture alright. Just not Mormon scripture.<br><br>Thanks for pointing that out, Mook.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68365142111337356532014-01-08T12:27:38.512-08:002014-01-08T12:27:38.512-08:00Can someone tell me which verse of D&C 89 &quo...Can someone tell me which verse of D&C 89 "moderation" is used or even referred to?Mook Farchingshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01854153334110108646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-72214438481135868032013-12-30T19:33:14.598-08:002013-12-30T19:33:14.598-08:00Malted Barley is sprouted barley which changes the...Malted Barley is sprouted barley which changes the carbohydrates into a more fermentable form. Malt o meal is malted barley. I once asked a Church leader about the word of wisdom and the pro scribing og mild drink from barley which to me meant mildly fermented beer , but the response I got was that it meant postum which was a drink made from roasted barley to be more like a decaffeinated coffee. I don't think postum was available as such in Jo Smiths time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52670658510911558862013-10-27T14:09:07.521-07:002013-10-27T14:09:07.521-07:00Rock,Although I agree with your interpretation of ...Rock,<br><br>Although I agree with your interpretation of the word of wisdom, the point about the temple recommend interview is one I can't quite get behind. I don't remember for sure, but don't they call out alcohol specifically in the temple recommend interview questions, when talking about the w.o.w. ? In other words, although the word of wisdom differentiates between beer and strong drink, the temple interview does not, if I'm not mistaken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-28664925077344577252013-10-24T09:43:12.093-07:002013-10-24T09:43:12.093-07:00The first beer I ever tried and liked was this Lam...The first beer I ever tried and liked was this Lambic Framboise Beer (see image: http://www.savorsa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Beef-Lambic.jpg). I still don't care much for your average beer, but hefeweizen or most wheat beers are not bad. Hard ciders are good too. I recently tried a sour beer, which is becoming all the rage here, and it was pretty good. I live in Portland (a.k.a. beervana) so the selection here is astounding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-89279920732640898392013-10-11T17:44:49.236-07:002013-10-11T17:44:49.236-07:00Rock- Ok, I have one for you. Redd's apple ale...Rock- Ok, I have one for you. Redd's apple ale. So, I read your post a month or so ago. I haven't been able to stomach the other crap either. My husband thoroughly enjoys his beer...might need to work on the moderation part...haha. Anyway, I had decided I would rather not drink than try to choke down beer. He brought home Redd's apple ale and it is wonderful! They have a strawberry ale too. My kind of mild drink. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43483423291124137552013-10-08T13:35:01.983-07:002013-10-08T13:35:01.983-07:00Thank you for your reply, Rock. I will definitely ...Thank you for your reply, Rock. <br><br>I will definitely share some of your blog postings with him, so he can better understand where I am coming from. One of the major things that I need to keep in mind though, is that although my husband’s way of worship does not work for me, I still need to RESPECT his way of exact obedience and drop any expectation for him to concede to my personal beliefs and my personalization of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. <br><br>Bold, right?!<br><br>If I am ever going to expect him to respect my own views, then this respect must be mutual. I think this will be a life-long process for us both, but ultimately a good and challenging one- requiring both our minds and hearts to be open to each others’ ideas and agreeing to disagree if necessary. As much as I would LOVE for him to start questioning and reading/researching for himself and taking those questions to God for answers instead of exact unquestioning obedience of church leadership, I feel that any disrespect on my part would take away from the very essence that is uniquely…him. Much like how exact obedience takes away from the very essence that is uniquely me. It is his decision to worship Christ in the way he so chooses, as it is my own decision as well. At the end of the day, I believe that true love is helping your spouse be the best individual that THEY can be. I think the world would be a happier place if only we (all people, regardless of religious beliefs) were more tolerant and respectful despite disagreements.<br>NewConvert101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-21902007216820919322013-10-07T21:48:32.241-07:002013-10-07T21:48:32.241-07:00NewConvert, The kind words expressed by folks like...NewConvert, <br>The kind words expressed by folks like you are what give me encouragement to keep going. Thank you. <br><br>Someone else some time back recommended that Lambic Raspberry beer. After trying several brands suggested by faithful readers and not caught the vision, I'd pretty much resigned my self to giving up the quest. But since this Lambic brand is supported from the mouth of two witnesses, maybe I'll dive in one more time.<br><br>As for your wonderful hubby, maybe you can find a post here on this site that you can recommend to him that coincides with your view of things so that he can better understand that you are not apostatizing; you're simply trying to be the best REAL Mormon you can be. Perhaps if you two can discuss something you have read here you can begin to find common ground.<br><br>Thanks for writing!<br><br>Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5145720990502202742013-10-07T14:39:34.242-07:002013-10-07T14:39:34.242-07:00Hopefully this link will post for the Lambic sugge...Hopefully this link will post for the Lambic suggestion: http://www.lindemans.be/start/framboise/en<br><br>This beer chart may be helpful to you. I even learned some things I didn’t know either! <br><br>http://www.beerpal.com/brain/styles.htmNewConvert101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66909413543387394652013-10-07T14:28:02.311-07:002013-10-07T14:28:02.311-07:00Hi Rock-Try the Belgian Lambic in Raspberry flavor...Hi Rock-<br><br>Try the Belgian Lambic in Raspberry flavor (Lindemans Framboise). The peach is also a good choice. It’s socially considered to be a “girly beer” and also sometimes referred to as “hummingbird water” if you order it at a bar, but I have to admit that I was a beer snob before converting to the LDS faith about 2 years ago, and this one is undoubtedly my favorite. Its brew contains about 70% barley malt and 30% unmalted wheat. It also contains a little less alcohol content than other darker brews. It’s a bit more expensive that your typical American “rice” beers (which aren’t even worth your $0.99 to me, but hey, to each his own), but the Lambic is well worth the extra cost in my eyes. The taste at first is more the berry flavor, but the end of the sip gives you the mild hops flavor as well. If you’ve never tried beer before in your life, this one is a good intro. FYI, this imported beer can also be difficult to find. My second favorite beer is the Guiness, a richer, much darker brew pretty much on the other end of the spectrum than the Lambic. But, still a quality and smooth choice in my opinion.<br><br>Your blog is so refreshing in so many ways. Last week I was researching the easiest way to resign from the LDS church and now this week I have a renewed sense of commitment after reading your blog. Since I have joined the LDS church, I have waxed and waned with the LDS faith. I absolutely love my Methodist roots, and always will. In my Methodist church growing up, the focus was on YOUR OWN interpretation of the Holy Bible after scripture study and meaningful prayer. Our reverend was there for guidance, but the overall opinion was very much open-minded, much like their slogan “Open hearts, open minds, open doors.” The center of the religion is Jesus Christ, and the overall goal above else is to try to become more and more Christ-like in your words, actions, and thoughts every day. No temples, no tithing a fixed percentage (it was a free-will offering in which people didn’t pressure you to pay it or a yearly settlement; you just gave what you could and that was that), no garments, no 3-hr meetings, no home teaching, no separation of men/women in regards to priesthood, no tearing down other religions in order to bolster LDS doctrine, no “this church is true” instead of “the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true” etc., etc. Needless to say, this conversion has been a huge change and struggle for me with both amazingly beautiful moments and incredibly long moments of sorrow and agony. Also, when LDS teachers mix their own feelings with doctrine during lessons, it can be hard for a new convert to decipher what the doctrine IS and what is merely opinion.<br><br>One year ago I married the most wonderful man, who I knew then and know now is my soulmate. He was raised in the LDS faith, and is probably the most faithful Mormon I know when it comes to every principle, rule, commandment, etc, and helped me though every missionary lesson and even sang at my LDS baptism. He is someone I look up to, and also someone who believes in exact, unquestioning obedience. Exact obedience works for him, but it does not work so well for me.<br><br>Your blog has inspired me to start personalizing the LDS faith, much like I had personalized the Methodist faith. In my eyes, the worst feeling that you can have (besides regret) is trying to be someone that you are not. At many times I felt as though I have been pushing my round spirit into a square hole, often feeling suffocated by all these new rules, especially when preparing to go the temple. And the more I try to push myself to fit, the more I push back, just screaming to be…me.<br><br>I prayed to know to join the LDS church 2 years ago, and I cannot deny the answer that I received. So I know that I must be here, as a newfound Mormon. Now I just need to personalize this faith by taking it to God and at first, making it more bearable, and second, maybe start enjoying it again a little. THANK YOU for giving me the tools so I can start this new process.<br><br>-NewConvert101<br><br>NewConvert101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-88344694662017490192013-10-04T13:06:58.741-07:002013-10-04T13:06:58.741-07:00Off-topic comment-That reminds me of the story (pr...Off-topic comment-<br>That reminds me of the story (probably fabricated but good nonetheless) of J. Golden Kimball sitting in a coffee shop in Salt Lake City, drinking coffee while reading his morning newspaper. <br>In walks a man who saw him from off the street. The man walks straight up to J. Golden Kimball and berates him for drinking coffee and in conclusion states, "I'd rather commit adultery than be found drinking coffee." To which J. Kimball retorted: "Well hell; who wouldn't?"Edwin Wildenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81756543388051326122013-10-04T12:53:46.183-07:002013-10-04T12:53:46.183-07:00@RockMatthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitud...@Rock<br>Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,<br>2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:<br>3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.<br><br>Our modern day leaders sit in Joseph's seat. That which they bid you observe, that observe and do.Edwin Wildenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32241825701715040482013-10-04T12:52:03.264-07:002013-10-04T12:52:03.264-07:00Janice, I don't question your information but ...Janice, I don't question your information but I am unfamiliar with it. Where I could research your suggestion that hot drinks were in direct reference to Hot alcoholic beverages?Edwin WIldenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-51070643900108013922013-10-04T12:47:54.884-07:002013-10-04T12:47:54.884-07:00@ Janice and Anonymous:Matthew 23: 1 Then spake Je...@ Janice and Anonymous:<br>Matthew 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,<br>2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:<br>3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.<br><br>Our modern day leaders sit in Joseph's seat. That which they bid you observe, that observe and do.Edwin Wildenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26577628090373687562013-09-30T16:13:13.591-07:002013-09-30T16:13:13.591-07:00Love it. I love reading stuff that makes me grin....Love it. I love reading stuff that makes me grin.<br><br>I really enjoyed the following post over at ldsanarchy a while ago, and had a great giggle over the conclusion: http://ldsanarchy.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/the-2013-edition-of-the-scriptures-has-unintentionally-added-new-scripture-to-the-canon/<br><br>Good stuff! I get really excited over ideas that wipe out our LDS tendency to act like Pharisees. I haven't actually decided to...well, explore the beer issue myself (although the hubs likes to make jokes about what we should do for date night, I think my enjoyment of Denver Snuffer's writings may get me in enough trouble without throwing beer into the mix), but I get a huge kick out of these discussions. <br><br>BTW, if I remember correctly, my convert husband would recommend Dogfish Head? What a name...czimmhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05551200869640817326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-46622672460288542192013-09-30T16:07:24.899-07:002013-09-30T16:07:24.899-07:00Lol.Lol.czimmhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05551200869640817326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66308409146061733912013-09-21T10:08:55.979-07:002013-09-21T10:08:55.979-07:00Just saw this video on youtube about the process a...Just saw this video on youtube about the process and ingredients that go into making beer, thought people here would be interested.<br>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9XNS8hbulMWicasa Wakanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06658407186041455977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80041056932112645592013-09-18T21:04:29.926-07:002013-09-18T21:04:29.926-07:00Wow Rock, your statement should be set in stone, &...Wow Rock, your statement should be set in stone, "No President of the Church (or any true Prophet who ever lived) has the authority to change the scriptures."<br><br>Prophets are to 'lead us to Christ' & his words, not change them & lead us to follow them instead.<br><br>We will know true prophets & disciples of Christ, yesterday, today & forever, because they will preach the 'words of Christ', with exactness.<br><br>I wish more people would realize that very vital truth. It would clear up most falsehoods & deceptions that abound today in & out of the Church. <br><br>But it seems most everyone doesn't mind if leaders do the thinking for them & change scripture, for most people just seem to want to blindly follow so they don't have to go to the effort to think, study & discern truth for themselves.<br><br>No wonder Joseph taught that those who are deceived by the craftiness of men & false prophets will lose their Exaltation, for allowing ourselves to be 'deceived' seems to be a choice.Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4583422085267274742013-09-18T16:44:53.724-07:002013-09-18T16:44:53.724-07:00Chris, the problems you describe with alcohol resu...Chris, the problems you describe with alcohol result from people using it for other than its proper use. It should be seen akin to a medicine or nutrient and used sparingly, not something imbibed in at parties. And of course drinking and driving is bound to result in a different outcome than having a pint of beer at the end of the day at home to unwind.<br><br>Not all alcohol is the same. The word of wisdom makes the distinction between strong spirits and fermented drinks. I know members who refuse to use herbal tinctures because they contain alcohol necessary for the extraction of the chemicals in the herbs. A couple of droppersful of tincure contains less alcohol than a bananan, yet these same people see nothing wrong with eating a banana. So wisdom is required.<br><br>I'll have to disagree with you about the word of wisdom being made a commandment. No president of the Church has the authority to change the scripture. It can only be superseded by God in the form of a new revelation. If you know of such a revelation, I'd like to see it. In the meantime, we had best read the scripture as it is written and not try to glom our own prejudices onto it.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.com