tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post3237520857916205512..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: How To Tell If You Are An IdolaterAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69787034088928196982015-01-11T22:47:20.610-08:002015-01-11T22:47:20.610-08:00Ahuizotl,
I think the mistake most of us make (and...Ahuizotl,<br />I think the mistake most of us make (and I made this mistake big time) was that once we obtained a testimony of the First Vision or of the Book of Mormon, we were ready to accept everything else we were fed by the institutional Church as being equally valid.<br /><br />That's why it's important to obtain a witness through the Holy Ghost about every teaching, every doctine, every tenet, and not simply accept the whole package blindly. Unless we do, we risk exposing ourselves to the buffetings of Satan. Satan has it easy if he can just get us to believe it's ALL True. Then he can lead us by the nose in whatever direction suits him.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43020627363657300052015-01-11T20:36:12.968-08:002015-01-11T20:36:12.968-08:00Rock,
You're such a gifted writer.
I enjoy...Rock, <br /><br />You're such a gifted writer. <br /><br />I enjoy reading your posts and the uniqueness insight you have into our culture. The way you point out things that have been hidden or gone unquestioned in our culture is alarming and yet liberating at the same time.<br /><br />Alarming that such things would have seeped into our culture and liberating that I'm now free to choose to act upon what I want and know to be correct doctrine or principles and not do things blindly because it was part of the "unwritten order" of things.Ahuizotlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59109356509537907272013-12-09T15:06:25.238-08:002013-12-09T15:06:25.238-08:00I had a new mission president that wanted us to st...I had a new mission president that wanted us to stand up when he entered the room. This was the instruction given to us by the APs that he had requested us to stand in his honor. The previous president never did this and the APs were the same elders that served under both mission presidents. Interesting that the mission president that insisted on us standing is now a general authority. So to say that some of them do not like the title is not accurate to me. Some actually like it and some probably do not. The stake presidents and bishops now teach at the direction of the brethren that titles are important and that leaders holding keys should be called "President" and that not doing so is disrespectful. This is an underground teaching that does not come from the scriptures. I think this is a very bad thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-70827220861206156722013-08-20T08:56:30.414-07:002013-08-20T08:56:30.414-07:00For it's like Joseph Smith warned us, we will ...For it's like Joseph Smith warned us, we will be damned if we fall for & support false prophets (especially one's who believe in polygamy), which I believe all LDS Leaders were who came after Joseph.<br /><br />Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-41205195118126117972013-08-20T08:49:21.833-07:002013-08-20T08:49:21.833-07:00Actually I believe it's just the other way aro...Actually I believe it's just the other way around, that if you sustain the leaders of the Church the Spirit will withdraw and you won't receive personal revelation. <br /><br />For I believe supporting the Church is supporting evil, despite the good things the church may do to 'look good'. We can't support evil and maintain the Spirit.Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52560880764943266502013-08-20T08:29:59.291-07:002013-08-20T08:29:59.291-07:00There was a recent conference talk that said somet...There was a recent conference talk that said something close to that idea, so I think that's the Churches new line of thinking they are selling. Funny though how they never seem to mention or admit the vast amounts of leaders who are caught doing very evil things asking members to do evil things. It's like members are to pretend that leaders are 'always' right and could never be wrong. Now Bishops are infallible! I've heard it all! It's so ridiculous I can't even believe they actually say it and think people will buy it, but surprisingly and sadly people do buy it. It only goes to show how deep the delusion and blind obedience is in the Church. <br /><br />Such thinking is close to the new idea given also in a recent conference, that if your revelation is different then your leaders that 'yours' is from the devil. Such a statement is actually humorous if it so many people weren't believing it. Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-49551926171705340302013-08-19T21:19:29.543-07:002013-08-19T21:19:29.543-07:00A good brother in my ward recently quoted our area...A good brother in my ward recently quoted our area authority (Australia) that if we don't sustain our leaders we are not entitled to personal revelation! Really???<br />I can't say I've sustained all our leaders but I continue to receive personal revelation. Maybe I should reconsider the source from whence it cometh. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-18439213354960944112013-07-10T11:02:46.543-07:002013-07-10T11:02:46.543-07:00In the Old Testament the Lord plead with the peopl...In the Old Testament the Lord plead with the people not to accept a king, but they overruled the Lord's prophet and got what they wanted. We are put down here on this Earth to gain faith by making decisions and choices, but because we are lazy, we prefer to offload as much responsibility for our decisions and choices to others. <br /><br />Politically, we tend to prefer to let "somebody else" make the laws and hard decisions, so we elect politicians to take over that burden. Ecclesiastically we tend to do the same thing. We support leaders of the Church who make all of our decisions for us, that way, when asked why we did not act in a Christlike manner we can say "the General Authority beguiled me, and I did eat". <br /><br />It is Satan's plan to encourage us to lean on others for our testimonies and our decisions about what is right and what is wrong. We allow others the authority to put us into a small box, so we can truly say "I had no choice but to act within the confines of the box", when it would be more correct to say "I had no choice but to act within the confines of the box I asked them to build and put me in".<br /><br />Socialism is a perfect example. Most supporters embrace the idea of forced "charity" to our underprivileged fellow man, instead of accepting responsibility for being personally charitable. <br /><br />Most members of the Church want the Prophet to tell them what to eat, drink and wear. The Brethren have unwisely IMHO condescended to provide answers: White shirt, short haircut, one earring per ear, long skirt, no pantsuits, no Beer, no marijuana, no ice tea - no exceptions. <br /><br />We have transformed ourselves into a parody of the church in Jesus's day with our own pharisees and sadducees telling us how many steps are okay on the Sabbath. We justify ourselves just as the Jews in Jesus's day by looking down our judgmental noses at non-conformists and presume to know whether they are a "good Latter Day Saint". We think that by following a list of mostly superficial criteria we can judge the "worthiness" and worth of others, without bothering to walk in their shoes. We justify ourselves by quoting the GA's and not following Christ's admonitions.<br /><br />It may very well be the case that those who unwisely accept responsibility for making my decisions will have to answer for their folly, just as Christ threatened to punish the Pharisees when they came before his judgment bar. They magnify their burden by encouraging blind obedience in Church members.<br /><br />Satan seems to be following the same playbook that worked so well (in his view) for the Catholic church, where he created an elite group with status equivalent to kings and princes; with sole authority to make judgments, dispense callings, define heresies, interpret scripture and dictate policies to Church members. <br /> <br />Although we like to look at the leadership of the Catholic Church as knowingly evil, it is entirely possible that they were simply doing what they thought best for the Church at the time, just as we do today. Satan appeals to our vanity; our innate belief that we are actually "good" and therefore our actions "pure", when neither is true.<br /><br /> Dale B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-41423711069460930552013-04-09T12:52:59.386-07:002013-04-09T12:52:59.386-07:00Temple Square. :)Temple Square. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68124553484819234322013-02-17T15:01:16.535-08:002013-02-17T15:01:16.535-08:00I'd never read that Boyd Packer talk until stu...I'd never read that Boyd Packer talk until stumbling across it here. I find his most presumptuous sayings to be in regards to funerals. While I agree that the sacred things, including belief in the resurrection, should be made clear, the the "principles" he's relying on are anything but Christlike. I mean, actually TALKING ABOUT the deceased person, including "humorous experiences or jokes" which "repulse the Spirit" (just HOW does he know that btw?)? All these things at a person's very own FUNERAL is simply PREPOSTEROUS! Never mind the fact that any non-members who attend may be curious why their loved one's funeral turned into a kitschy sermon devoid of any sort of remembrances!<br /><br />How about the simple admonition to "mourn with those that mourn?" I am in no position to judge others on how they grieve, and neither is Brother Boyd. He should have called his talk "The Unscriptural Order of Things" instead, as he even goes so far to ask us to "learn and study the unwritten order of things" to gain the Lord's power. Should that be before or after scripture study?the_mormonionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12477702897467910306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-71191940101885405162012-12-22T23:39:07.535-08:002012-12-22T23:39:07.535-08:00You know the real reason why GAs (Geriatric Author...You know the real reason why GAs (Geriatric Authorities) do that whole first or middle initial thing? It has nothing to do with Masonic and Corporate traditions of vanity. It's just because they all were given silly and embarrassing names by their parents.<br /><br />Russell Muscle Nelson<br />Mallard Russell Ballard<br />Richard Gott Scott<br />Neal Axwell Maxwell<br />Dallin Hoax Oaks<br />Boyd Korihor Packer<br /><br />Poor guys. What were their parents thinking?Elder Chantdownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13491715981251308296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59668006120197843462012-12-04T20:49:09.165-08:002012-12-04T20:49:09.165-08:00I'm going to start calling Thomas S. Monson &q...I'm going to start calling Thomas S. Monson "Brother Monson" for now on. Thank you! Melihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18298374945383134838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69719704800517958652012-09-19T13:30:53.620-07:002012-09-19T13:30:53.620-07:00Nothin is worse than Magna.....Nothin is worse than Magna.....Sharon Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07425003604148130022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-88157823106296422002012-07-09T23:11:32.730-07:002012-07-09T23:11:32.730-07:00It is not healthy for any organization heads to su...It is not healthy for any organization heads to surround themselves with ass kissers. It is a problem with man in general. <br />Jonathan HortonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-45454833069835225482012-07-09T23:02:28.803-07:002012-07-09T23:02:28.803-07:00Thanks Alan,
I have come to discover for myself th...Thanks Alan,<br />I have come to discover for myself that: Spitituallity is between me and God. Religion is a way of getting things accomplished in society with people that have similar spiritual ideals. Minor prophets are there to organize religion and occasionaly remind us about how important our relationship with God is. The difference between a minor profit and a major prophet usually has a lot to do with how much they pedestalize former prophets. I think it was Nephi or Jacob that chastized Solomon and David for their wickedness. Taoism teaches that those in pursuit of the way of truth every day something is unlearned. All we have in the church today is parrots * who are unwilling to tear down any rat infested slum of ideas even if the work would quadruple. <br /><br />*thats why conferences are so dull Gordan B said this Thomas Monson said this I can do an ensign search at LDS.org and prepair an equivelent talk in 15 minutes)<br /><br />Jonathan HortonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4988853060633383842012-02-20T08:45:20.727-08:002012-02-20T08:45:20.727-08:00Thanks, Commander. That's a good one to keep ...Thanks, Commander. That's a good one to keep in mind.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-44547322725137351452012-02-20T03:40:03.458-08:002012-02-20T03:40:03.458-08:00Follow-up scripture to what I posted: D&C 76:6...Follow-up scripture to what I posted: D&C 76:61<br /><br /> 61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.<br /><br />This is not being followed at all, especially in general conference.Commander Gidgiddoninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-37686956587393372282012-01-01T12:18:57.206-08:002012-01-01T12:18:57.206-08:00Let's compare how the prophets of the church t...Let's compare how the prophets of the church today react to praise from others in general conference vs how Jesus Christ reacted.<br /><br />Prophets today: What I have noticed is silence. They neither acknowledge or rebuke/reprimand those who have praised them. Let me know if you have seen otherwise.<br /><br />Jesus Christ:<br />Let's look at Mark 10:17-18<br /><br /> 17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?<br /><br /> 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.<br /><br />If we believe that our goal is to steadily become more like Jesus, we need to emulate Him. This can be done through following Him and His faithfulness, His love for God, and His humility before God.<br />Jesus, the one and only one in the history of the world, could have legitimately accepted the praise, still did not, and gave all of the praise to the Father.Commander Gidgiddoninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-67845488800387074552011-08-23T12:10:31.676-07:002011-08-23T12:10:31.676-07:00Excellent article Rock. I go out of my way to in a...Excellent article Rock. I go out of my way to in all types of company (both TBM and not and everywhere in between) to simply refer to them as their names, Gordon Hinckley, Tom Monson etc. I grew up in a neighborhood and ward in SLC where we my sunday school teachers were former presidents of 70, very high profile members, as well as 12 former mission presidents, a couple of apostles etc etc. - and we all just called our Bishop by his first name, Dan. Anyway I refuse to participate in this nonsense. If I were a leader of any kind, I'd like to just be called by my name and wish our leaders were down to earth enough to desire the same. Like in the B of M where King Benjamin and Alma (the younger?) worked of their own account, preferring to keep a low profile among the people of the land and church. Where is such an example today? Gordon Hinckley famously said he fights hero worship every day - and I know his family and know that they are good, down to earth people for the most part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65219429285429926912011-06-08T06:47:25.369-07:002011-06-08T06:47:25.369-07:00Oh, but didn't you know that it isn't thei...Oh, but didn't you know that it isn't their fault if they're worshiped like gods? One of the big things that the church likes to drill into the minds of the people is that everything that goes wrong is always the fault of the lay member, never the church or one of the leaders.Dave P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-46281889686787700042011-06-08T04:38:33.144-07:002011-06-08T04:38:33.144-07:00It seems to me, that if the GAs didn't want to...It seems to me, that if the GAs didn't want to be worshipped like gods, they could probably put a stop to it.The Arkwelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03156847150929492694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34640994673312545612011-05-11T15:07:31.746-07:002011-05-11T15:07:31.746-07:00You'll hear a lot of praises being exchanged b...You'll hear a lot of praises being exchanged between members, a lot of back-patting and self-exultation. But will you hear praises to the Lord Jesus Christ? Will you see humility before the God who gave his own life that he might offer us salvation?<br /><br />No. Forget about that. They're really too interested in self-worship to worship the Lord.doyle_meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14670666670201894017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69993616931653723662011-03-15T09:11:09.646-07:002011-03-15T09:11:09.646-07:00//Worship should be reserved for the Master only./...//Worship should be reserved for the Master only.//<br /><br />You should have seen the big hoopla when our current bishop was called to his post. There was a prelude of intrigue in which we were promised great things next week (almost as if the Second Coming would be here), then a big fanfare of a party after church when he was sustained. I've been in the church all my life and I'd never seen the like.<br /><br />This is the bishop who was once my home teacher. The only reason I know he was my home teacher because he announced it to me outside the Relief Society room. That was the extent of my contact with him.<br /><br />You see how far men's methods are from the Lord's? The Lord would have us quietly serve with integrity and diligence. Men would announce that someone is absolutely the cat's meow.<br /><br />Even if the praise were warranted, it's probably inappropriate to deliver it publicly. If someone really has done something incredibly nice, then thank him or her personally.<br /><br />In the case of our bishop, despite the great accolades he receives, I cannot see evidence of greatness. I once offered to send inactive members the Ensign at my own expense if he would just give me a list of those he wanted to receive them. He promised to provide the list. It never appeared. I reminded him again and received effusive assurances it would soon make an appearance.<br /><br />That was probably two years ago. The list never appeared.whitehuskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10462985530221490302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38295681595036490202011-02-08T21:24:10.925-08:002011-02-08T21:24:10.925-08:00Thanks to Connor's Twitter I ran into this tod...Thanks to Connor's Twitter I ran into this today:<br /><br />http://universe.byu.edu/node/13756<br /><br />Talk about missing the forest for the trees/not seeing the elephant in the room/etc. I also easily noticed that my comment calling out the church for its idol worship of the "prophet" did not get approved. But then again, it is BYU. Having an actual differing opinion is not allowed there.Dave P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-83146274011952571162010-12-03T10:54:30.092-08:002010-12-03T10:54:30.092-08:00Rock and Dave,
I obviously can't compare my m...Rock and Dave,<br /><br />I obviously can't compare my mission in SLC to anywhere else as it's been the only one I've served...however, I did spend a lot of time with the missionaries back home in Vermont before I ended up serving my own mission and I was accustomed to to their rules/policies, so when I got to SLC I didn't like that I had to re-learn a new standard of protocol once I got there. But I got over myself, stepped outside of my own head and realized that it was ok that my mission president was different than the one I had come to know in New England.<br /><br />As for everyone looking our shoulders...yes, it was rather taxing, some times more than others (like when I served up at the UofU in a singles stake of recently returned missionaries who thought they knew everything there was to know about the Work). We took President Kimball's statement of "Every Member a Missionary" and changed it to "Every Member a Mission President." It bothered us more when we were younger or newer missionaries but once we realized and understood our individual callings as a missionaries, those kinds of encounters bothered us less and less.<br /><br />For the most part however, the members there were incredibly supportive and truly wonderful. While I was there, the mission would baptize on average 100-120 people per month with tremendous involvement from the members in the various wards and stakes. <br /><br />Serving in SLC made it so we were also privy to things and places that other missionaries/members/visitors/tourists were not. I may not have been a missionary who knocked doors is rural Italy or the Philippines, I may not have taught discussions to the people living in humble circumstances within the mountain caves of Guatemala like my father did, but I was able to visit the 4th and 5th floors and the the solemn assembly room of the Salt Lake temple, to climb inside the spires of the temple and visit rooms not used or visited for common purposes, to walk the tunnels beneath temple square, to be taken up inside the dome of the original tabernacle to see the original trusses there held together without the use of metal or staples or nails. My first baptism was a family of 5, baptized right on temple square in the font found on the west side of the tabernacle. I was able to personally hold and read an original Book of Mormon and one of the remaining 14 or so first edition Book of Commandments that the church doesn't have stored and locked up in their archives. I was able to meet (typically in random circumstances) members of the Twelve and 1st Presidency and have them bare unprompted personal and individual testimony to my investigators about the divinity of the Savior and the words we were teaching them...<br /><br />We may have had it easy, REAL easy in a lot of ways, but that does not make serving in Utah any less unique, individual and marvelous. It was exactly what I needed at the exact time that I needed it, and I am grateful for it (annoying and nosy members and all). <br /><br />It was my mission in Utah that gave me the opportunities to read and study things that aren't in circulation any longer or that are simply extremely difficult to come by these days that gave me my taste for pure doctrine, for the prevailing truth instead of policy that has been instituted AS doctrine which I feel we are only getting more and more of these days (which is exactly why I can't get enough of your website, Rock!).<br /><br />Anyway. I've once again rambled on far too long. Thanks for the both of you taking an interest in my initial comment. It's been great reading and chatting with you both! I hope for more to come.<br /><br />-jstonejeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905830060991051817noreply@blogger.com