tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post3003325134249954149..comments2024-03-26T21:27:42.278-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Infallible Authority, Chapter TenAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4558213561971662872013-11-13T19:52:21.758-08:002013-11-13T19:52:21.758-08:00Even if this particular argument has its weaknesse...Even if this particular argument has its weaknesses, it doesn't take away from the fact that God will not prevent us from living a higher law if we so choose. That, to me, is the core idea of Dewey's argument.the_mormonionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12477702897467910306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14126204210795039842013-11-13T19:49:29.769-08:002013-11-13T19:49:29.769-08:00Couldn't it transfer that because of the atone...Couldn't it transfer that because of the atonement of Christ, all men have the opportunity to return to our Heavenly Father at some point? The doctrine of a kingdom "cut-off" point does not make the atonement more powerful; it only limits it.the_mormonionhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12477702897467910306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69059509526127290782013-04-03T10:37:55.608-07:002013-04-03T10:37:55.608-07:00J.J.'s explanation of Eternal Progression is w...J.J.'s explanation of Eternal Progression is written better than I have read before. It is the way I understand it and frankly always have. Nothing startling about it - makes perfect sense.Robbennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-79844994702147664302013-01-07T04:22:03.297-08:002013-01-07T04:22:03.297-08:00Ok, I have read the directed chapter. It seems ino...Ok, I have read the directed chapter. It seems inoffensive to me, apart from being doctrinally suspect, significantly in error and worryingly illogical. One of the justifications put forward is that it appeals to "commonsense". Where in all of scripture is an appeal to commonsense made as a yardstick of truth? <br><br>It seems to me the author has failed to address a number of issues, but I will concentrate mainly on the adverse influence of an initial assumption upon the whole thesis.<br>The statement is made that only non-created things last eternally. This is based on something JS was reported to have said, and not on scripture. That is a problem because it appears to me that the whole premise is built on that initial statement. But is that statement correct? If it is, then we are in trouble and destined to return eventually to mere intelligence since our spirits and our bodies were created. Presumably God has the same problem. <br>So the resurrection is temporary, according to this interpretation of what JS said. This is obviously contrary to scripture and therefore highly suspect.<br><br>But it gets worse. As, according to the logic upon which this whole deck of cards is based (only un-created things have no end), then the Devil will be returned to intelligence (quote by Brigham Young). Therefore, we are all destined to become devils eventually - even God!<br><br>This argument can be taken further, with alarming consequences. A family is a creation, and therefore destined to dissolve. It might take millions of years but it will, according to this interpretation of what JS said, have to happen. Does that mean that couples who divorce now are progressing at a more rapid pace than others who stay together? Think about it, the argument is full of holes.<br><br>And what of free agency. I might not ever want to return to intellegence but I will have to eventually. Again, according to Joseph it's the law.<br><br>But most damning of all is where does the Atonement fit into all of this? It seems to me that this is the achilles heal of the whole theory. It appears that once our punishment for sin is over we just have to learn some stuff and we will progress. It may take a while but there is no need for Christ in all of this. In fact, he wasn't really mentioned at all in the article and yet he is supposed to be the central figure in our salvation. This is where the whole deck of cards collapses in my view.<br><br>For me the view of the eternities illustrated in this article is scary beyond belief. It appears we will be ever travelling and never arrive at any kind of final destination. We are destined to an eternity of work, striving and toil; a kind of eternal hamster wheel. And, according to the premise, no matter how fast we spin that wheel we, as created beings are destined to end right back where we started. Just what I wanted to hear on a monday morning!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81440761362218806902012-06-16T01:50:27.326-07:002012-06-16T01:50:27.326-07:00It is the truly righteous that don't worry, fo...It is the truly righteous that don't worry, for they are they that trust in Him. As you said, Zion does come first. It is our duty to build Zion, and that should come before any selfish concerns as to where we'll go later on. To do what is right because of the desire to serve is true proof of righteousness, not a desire to do right because we think that it will net us some sort of profitable reward in the afterlife.'Ayinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11954003931393281614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-73352537308967313832012-06-16T01:48:04.577-07:002012-06-16T01:48:04.577-07:00I disagree with excommunicating someone simply bec...I disagree with excommunicating someone simply because of their beliefs, for in Alma 30 it states "Now there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds."<br><br>That said I believe that Dewey's interpretation of scripture is fundamentally flawed, for he denies the agency of man. Without eternal consequences to our actions, they become null and void.<br><br>I have written a more detailed rebuttal to Dewey's paper here: http://panveritas.blogspot.jp/2012/06/in-defense-of-eternal-increase.html'Ayinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11954003931393281614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66563242200017822072012-06-16T01:43:30.683-07:002012-06-16T01:43:30.683-07:00Unfortunately I believe Dewey has misinterpreted J...Unfortunately I believe Dewey has misinterpreted Joseph Smith's intentions behind those words, which I have written in greater depth here: http://panveritas.blogspot.jp/2012/02/on-eternity.html'Ayinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11954003931393281614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-85929980151281320962012-04-28T13:45:13.854-07:002012-04-28T13:45:13.854-07:00I stopped "worrying" over the Celestial ...I stopped "worrying" over the Celestial Kingdom a long time ago. I find the concepts interesting. I find the idea of kingdoms interesting. But I determined that rather than being concerned with where I, personally, was going to end up, I would find peace with my God while on this earth and trust in Him to take me where I should go.<br><br>Perhaps I am too unconcerned. Maybe that is not being Mormon enough. But it's how I feel. I can't fixate on kingdoms. I do tend to think about Zion a lot. I think Zion comes first, whether in this world or in the spirit world. Not sure why or how, but it's how I feel, not necessarily a belief. I've met too many non-LDS who are much better people than many LDS I know, so I've let go of a lot of the competitive "stuff" that surrounded my church membership in years gone by.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-73992164880318955002012-01-18T10:33:36.149-08:002012-01-18T10:33:36.149-08:00Mr. Dewey's beliefs rely pretty heavily on the...Mr. Dewey's beliefs rely pretty heavily on the idea that everything which has a beginning has an end, and I am just wondering how that idea applies to other things. Like since our ressurected body will have a beginning, will it also have an end? I am just curious about how that concept extends.Elder Scott Seniorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00081659379849975985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-21444510304711252202011-12-16T12:37:14.185-08:002011-12-16T12:37:14.185-08:00June,Yes, I believe most everyone has been deceive...June,<br><br>Yes, I believe most everyone has been deceived throughout history & even today, even in the Church. A righteous person has usually always been rare, except for a few times in history where a people repented & remained righteous for a short time.<br><br>It is rare to find someone who possesses the Holy Spirit & thus is not deceived & can really discern truth from error & right from wrong & devils from saints & true Prophets from false ones.<br><br>And it is also rare to find someone who believes in & possesses unconditional love, especially in a difficult marriage.<br><br>And I agree, anyone in the world, no matter what religion they are or no religion at all, can come to believe in & possess unconditional love & thus they will be Christlike & recognize truth when & wherever they hear it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-51817443625324521132011-12-16T11:40:27.602-08:002011-12-16T11:40:27.602-08:00"The Holy Spirit tells everyone the same thin..."The Holy Spirit tells everyone the same things or harmonious things about any particular scripture or doctrine." "And for those who possess the Spirit, they will all interpret the scriptures the same way. Only the unrighteous interpret the scriptures in so many diverse ways." I beg to differ on both of those counts. If that were true then I would say 99.99 percent of the world population that has ever lived is deceived. That would mean anybody in any religion other than Mormonism and most of the people I have ever listened to in Sunday school are deceived because they don't see things the same way. <br><br> I think there are multiple ways to interpret things and many ways to return to God. I think it is arrogant and narcissistic to think that anyone who interprets scripture different from your "right" way is not getting their thoughts from God. <br><br>Wasn't that the reasoning of every pastor or preacher that Joseph Smith talked to about his vision? <br><br>And about service to our Spouse. Perhaps you are right about your statement that unconditional love is the key to exaltation. But then it would be to all humankind, and anyone who exhibited that unconditional love would have that same key even if they had never read any piece of scripture ever let alone simply interpreted it differently than you do. Perhaps they aren't as unrighteous as you think they are.Junenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-1107369546304185372011-12-16T11:30:20.768-08:002011-12-16T11:30:20.768-08:00Alan, Thank you so much for responding to my post....Alan, <br><br>Thank you so much for responding to my post. <br><br>I understand what you are saying. I agree there are some marriages where both spouses are loving & righteous & so it seems rather easy to have unconditional love. I also wonder if you both have achieved the level that I am talking about, where you seek to daily fulfill each others every wish before your own. I truly commend you if you have & am happy to know of such an wonderful marriage.<br><br>But the reality is that most marriages 80-90% or more, even in the Church, have some level or form of abuse or adultery going on, with one or both spouses. Though many don't even realize they do. Thus, for most spouses it is much harder for them to have such unconditional true love & faithfulness, if their spouse is committing abuse, adultery or abandonment.<br><br>If one has a righteous marriage like yours, than as you mentioned, the goal would then to strive to have such unconditional love for our children & other family & friends & others we come in contact with. Which is a hard enough goal to keep us striving for such love the rest of our lives.<br><br>Also, unconditional love does not mean letting someone continue to hurt us, but that we will stand up for right & do all we can to help them repent if need be.<br><br>When I said that I agree that 'everyone knows when they do wrong', I mean't that at some point in their lives they knew they were doing wrong but they kept doing it & thus became numb or past feeling to their wrongs after a while. <br><br>Thus, as you said correctly, most people who do evil think they are righteous, for they have long since lost their conscience because they at one point refused to listen to it.<br><br>The Holy Ghost does not bother us for long before he becomes very quiet & lets us just do what we want.<br><br>I believe most people even in the Church believe themselves to be righteous, even while they unknowingly support evil. As prophesied, (2 Nephi 28, etc.) most everyone today, except a few, are deceived & blinded to support & do evil. Yet they rarely awake & come to see that they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68924527189297392492011-12-16T05:57:28.925-08:002011-12-16T05:57:28.925-08:00Anonymous,As much as I agree with your assessment ...Anonymous,<br>As much as I agree with your assessment of Unconditional Love being at the top of God's list, it doesn't usually occur to me to struggle (if that's the right word) with that concept with my wife.<br><br>I think the real challenge for all of us in demonstrating unconditional love is with those who give us reasons not to like them, or with complete strangers who we may be apprehensive about trusting with that emotion.<br><br>Connie and I have had our differences and arguments, as all married people do, but we entered this arrangement because of an overriding passion we had for one another. Having unconditional love for someone I started out loving is not as much of a challenge as showing it to someone who, in ordinary circumstances, I might take to be a jerk.<br><br>I'll give you an example. A while back someone repeatedly insulted me, calling me a coward for not continuing to engage in an online debate I had lost interest in. While my initial reaction was to decide this guy as a jerk and give back the same kinds of insults he was tossing at me, the real challenge is for me to just accept him as my brother and let it go. I confess I did not do that. I continued to argue, because instead of totally accepting him with love, I let the guy get under my skin. My reaction was as petty as his.<br><br>Had I been able to let it go and just love the guy, I would have been demonstrating more of a celestial mindset. But I failed. The reality is I didn't like him.<br><br>I also have to differ with Packer's claim that we all know when we are doing wrong. In reality, I believe most people who are doing wrong believe they are in the right. Look at Packer himself. He has built his Church career in the belief that the lowly members have a duty to defer to "leaders" such as himself, and that not all doctrines of the Church need come through God, but can be instituted by the leadership. Need proof? Google his famous talk titled "The Unwritten Order of Things."Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59187141874869586152011-12-15T22:19:11.573-08:002011-12-15T22:19:11.573-08:00June,I mention serving a 'spouse' & ha...June,<br><br>I mention serving a 'spouse' & having unconditional love so much because I know that it's the key to Exaltation. <br><br>I believe marriage & how we truly love & serve our spouse & keep our covenants them, no matter what or if they do, is the true test for Exaltation & eternal marriage.<br><br>Charity, the pure love of Christ, is the greatest of all things. It is the one sure thing to tell a 'true disciple of Christ' by.<br> <br>Joseph Smith taught that having this 'perfect love' is the key to not being deceived in this life & to having our calling & election made sure. <br><br>For when we choose to gain the Holy Spirit we will have this kind of love & this kind of discernment. Being deceived to fall for or support evil & the craftiness & philosphies of men, even unknowingly, is how we lose place in the Celestial Kingdom the scriptures say.<br><br>And for those who possess the Spirit, they will all interpret the scriptures the same way. Only the unrighteous interpret the scriptures in so many diverse ways.<br><br>So I believe it is very fair for Heavenly Father to expect us to live by & understand the rules, for as Pres. Packer said, "everyone knows when they do wrong." Even non-members, for we all have the light of Christ in us & if we are true to it, it will lead us to greater & greater light. <br><br>It is simply our choice to walk toward the light or away from it.<br><br>The Holy Spirit tells everyone the same things or harmonious things about any particular scripture or doctrine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30105616618349898562011-12-15T07:28:22.388-08:002011-12-15T07:28:22.388-08:00To anonymous. "The 'man' dost protest...To anonymous. "The 'man' dost protest too much, methinks." You mentioned spouse 13 times that I counted, how you have to serve your spouse, and this line "Unconditional love, especially for one's spouse, no matter what they are like or what they do, is the key to Exaltation." <br><br>I think you have a troublesome marriage and you want to believe there is a reward for your perseverance and hard work - for sticking it out no matter what. <br><br>I believe we are rewarded for our actions. But I also believe God wouldn't be so heartless as to put a veil up and then punish us for not following rules that are so easily interpreted in such diverse ways. <br><br> I could be completely off base on this one but it is just my observation. I think you are looking for validation for your choices. I sincerely hope you find them.Junenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-54857065789386113062011-12-14T23:43:09.125-08:002011-12-14T23:43:09.125-08:00Anon,If I thought that after millions of years, I ...Anon,<br>If I thought that after millions of years, I had this comparative microsecond on earth to "get things right," then I too would be in a panicked frenzy. I certainly wouldn't want to spend the rest of eternity (how can there be a "rest" of something that has no end?) suffering because I had blown it. Eternity is a long time (wait, isn't eternity "outside" of time?).<br><br>I guess it comes down to the original question regarding advancing through kingdoms after this earth life. I don't know if you have read Alma 13 before and pondered what it means. If not, would you mind reading it and answering this question for me:<br>* How was it these high priests, who were ordained from the foundation of the earth had exceeding faith and good works, chose good over evil, and were able to repent while in God's presence?<br><br>As far as the saved by grace after all we can do thing... could another meaning be that after all we can do is realizing we can do NOTHING, and giving up that notion and finally not denying Christ's grace, but receiving it completely, without any of my self-serving (I want to achieve the Celestial Kingdom, you see) dead works attached?Inspirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07915227658956979023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29914505412170017842011-12-14T18:41:55.436-08:002011-12-14T18:41:55.436-08:00Continued: Also, the greatest kind of service that...Continued: <br><br>Also, the greatest kind of service that will get us to the Cel. Kingdom is not what we do at Church, but in our own home. How we love & serve our spouse & children before ourselves is the true & hardest test. <br><br>Anyone can serve at church, where many do just to look good, while mistreating & refusing to love & serve their difficult family members. While church service is a wonderful thing, it is far less important than the service within our own home. <br><br>Serving our spouse's every wish, will perfect us much faster than any church service we could ever do.<br><br>While it may be impossible to be righteous without God's help, it still is 'possible' for everyone to do so, if they really want to. This life is the test to see what & who we really are & if we can be trusted to love & serve a spouse & family forever above ourselves, by if we did it here or not. <br><br>Unconditional love, especially for one's spouse, no matter what they are like or what they do, is the key to Exaltation. Everyone wants to receive this kind of love but very few are willing to give it. <br><br>While few seem to be choosing to live on a Celestial level today, we must remember that many will do so in the millenium.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65277008829906463072011-12-14T18:41:04.979-08:002011-12-14T18:41:04.979-08:00Inspire, It appears we may be talking about the sa...Inspire, <br><br>It appears we may be talking about the same things. For I agree we must just love God with all our might, mind & strength, but doing that requires more than most people think. Love means doing all that the person asks us to. Only those who possess the Holy Spirit will know all that God wants us to do. For Prophets only give us a few clues to those things, while the Spirit tells us 'all' the things we must do to achieve Exaltation. <br><br>And I agree, that 'after all we can do', then his grace will be sufficient to save us. But 'our part' is far greater than most people want to realize. And unless we do our part we can't expect his grace to be able to perfect us. Such a glorious reward does not come easy.<br><br>The reason we should 'bother' is because the reward is so great, even if the present test is so hard & the consequences for not achieving the Cel. Kingdom are so dire, awful & eternal. <br><br>Christ didn't like what he had to do either, it was very hard for even him to go through with the atonement. But he knew it would be worth it & that he had to do it or he & us would not achieve the happiness we could.<br><br>I believe there is a point where we can be assured we are on a Cel. level, & just need to maintain that. Part of the test of this life is enduring to the end & keep serving & striving no matter how tired we may be. Many give up early, because the enduring part is so long & hard. <br><br>Though we can feel like it's never enough, God can tell us we are doing great & to just maintain what we are doing. God can also bless us with wonderful & rare light & knowledge that will help strengthen us to help us keep going. <br><br>But even Prophets felt this tremendous 'weariness' from all the great burdens they suffered & endured. God can't take that suffering completely away, but he can strengthen us to be able to keep going to the end.<br><br>Also, God is not a tyrant, it's just that he knows how awful it will be for us to not be able to be with him & our loved ones & in the Cel. Kingdom, once we cross the veil & remember our pre-existence. He knows how painful it will be to be single forever & without those we love & knew for millions of years before we ever even came to earth. <br><br>He pleads with us to take this life seriously because he doesn't want us to experience that kind of suffering & pain throughout eternity. <br><br>But unfortunately very few take him seriously. We figure there must be 2nd chances & that he wouldn't let such an awful thing happen to us, especially since most of us are really nice people who do alot of good.<br><br>But the reality is he has actually 'no say' in where we end up, he has to obey eternal law too. He can only encourage & plead with us to listen to him & take the commandments & our marriage covenants seriously, no matter what religion we are. For that is the only way we can gain those highest blessings. He can't just give them to us, no matter how much he may want us with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-24526814071746512132011-12-14T12:10:06.832-08:002011-12-14T12:10:06.832-08:00Anon,I know where you're coming from, believe ...Anon,<br>I know where you're coming from, believe me. Our family spent several years doing as much as is humanly possible... all the programs, all the callings, all the service. In the end, it wasn't "enough." I wasn't "enough." I was anxiously engaged on what I call the Merry-Go-Round of Hell... always moving, never getting anywhere. And why is that? Because I thought that it was by my works that I would be saved. To this day I struggle with releasing the idea that I can push and pull my way to heaven through MY merits, that is how deeply this corporate ladder-climbing mentality is ingrained in us.<br><br>Take a look at what you are saying, Anon... the picture of the Celestial Kingdom that you paint is so exclusive that according to your own words, it is almost impossible to find any who will qualify, yet you claim that if we realized that we had more chances throughout eternity to progress, we would not strive to "achieve" it here. Sheesh, if it's practically impossible to do it like you say, then why bother in the first place? If God has to use tactics like scaring me into compliance with the threat of pain and suffering as consequences, I'm not sure I want to hang out with such a tyrant. <br><br>I'm not here to convince you of my viewpoints. Clearly you are set on earning your way up the ladder, and that's great. God speed on your journey. But for those who feel burdened by having to DO more and more and finding that it's never enough, I would say, maybe it's time to surrender this burden to Christ and love God with all your might, mind and strength. Then is His grace sufficient for you, that by His grace you may be perfect in Christ. And if by the grace of God you are perfect in Christ, you can in nowise deny the power of God. Do we deny His power by thinking that WE have to DO it all... or even any of the works? How is it relying WHOLLY on His merits to say that we must achieve our exaltation?<br><br>Don't get me wrong, I think the works will happen if we have an eye single to HIS glory (not ours). But they will be a natural result of having been born again in Jesus Christ, keeping what He commends to us: His pure love.Inspirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07915227658956979023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-58013218589023963782011-12-14T09:45:45.000-08:002011-12-14T09:45:45.000-08:00Anon,The gospel makes a lot more sense to me after...Anon,<br><br>The gospel makes a lot more sense to me after reading that there is no "eternal damnation". It seemed so arbitrary. Why the veil if it is so important in this single life? You can believe what you will but my mind and soul is comforted by this.Jonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05518762624199557168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-62045152119055172702011-12-14T08:58:51.297-08:002011-12-14T08:58:51.297-08:00Jon, I agree with that scripture, that being right...Jon, <br><br>I agree with that scripture, that being righteous here, will help us be further along & achieve higher rewards & stations in the next life. <br><br>But, being or staying righteous is so hard & the sacrifice is so great, that it takes 'knowing that it must be done here' (cause there is no 2nd chance) in order to maintain the strength to do it. <br><br>If we thought we could repent & still achieve Exaltation in the next life, we would not have the drive to maintain true righteousness here, it's just too hard.<br><br>The natural man needs a huge & looming, even fearful incentive, to be truly righteous.<br><br>Or no one would be able to do it. It takes being fearful of the consequences of 'not' making it, in order to make it. Realizing that we might lose our loved ones forever & not be with our Heavenly Parents again, is the only thing that can make us strong enough & give us the incentive to achieve it.<br><br>If we believe we have forever to progress, we will never have the strength to be sufficiently righteous & holy in this life, it just requires too much. <br><br>Understanding 'justice' (eternal consequences) is the only thing that makes 'mercy' (Christ's atoning power) possible & attainable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57262758379012864112011-12-14T08:42:25.799-08:002011-12-14T08:42:25.799-08:00Inspire,I believe that there is a great difference...Inspire,<br><br>I believe that there is a great difference between saying or thinking we have faith vs. producing the works to prove it. It takes every ounce of strength we have to stay righteous & give the service & make the sacrifices needed to truly have Charity, the pure love of Christ & be worthy of the Holy Spirit & eventual Exaltation. <br><br>I do not believe it comes naturally or automatically just by wanting it or thinking about it or saying one has faith. It takes constant & often painful effort & is the hardest thing anyone will ever do. <br><br>Most everyone believes they have faith, even most of the wicked believe they are righteous. Believing it & being it are two very different things. <br><br>There is a big difference between being good, honorable, kind & helpful & fulfilling all our callings at church (Terr. level) VS. being pure, holy & selfless enough to be filled with Charity & being able & willing to save souls. <br><br>It is very rare to find a truly righteous person today, even in the church, though almost everyone there believes they are righteous. It is almost impossible to find someone in the Church who really believes in the pure Gospel of Jesus Christ. <br><br>Joseph Smith could hardly find anyone in the Church in his day who could accept the Gospel. Christ's gospel was even almost more than his Apostles could comprehend or accept, let alone live. <br><br>Living at a Celestial level is not a natural thing, it goes completely contrary to our carnal natures to be righteous, we must pray & strive for it everyday & even then, with God's help, we will barely achieve & maintain the level of righteousness needed to be worthy of Exaltation. Which I agree, is 'impossible', without God's help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-12523471110456926442011-12-14T00:47:16.350-08:002011-12-14T00:47:16.350-08:00Anon, If only for a moment, try to clear yourself ...Anon, <br>If only for a moment, try to clear yourself of what you think you know and consider some other possibilities. When a rich young man came to Jesus asking Him what more he could do to enter the kingdom of God, Christ told him to sell everything and follow Him. Later, the disciples said (and I'm paraphrasing) "What you are asking is practically impossible!" And maybe that is the point He was trying to make... it IS impossible. But WITH GOD, all things are possible. Notice that He didn't give the same direction to others who wanted to be healed and came pleading for mercy. He granted their request freely, according to the faith they had that He could heal them.<br><br>In regards to the "faith without works is dead" mantra, I hear what you are saying... but I believe it's simply stating that if you have accepted the grace that Christ offers, the charity will be a natural result as you will blow where the Spirit listeth. Basically, if you say you have faith, the works will automatically be manifested. Without the works, it is innocuous or dead. However, if you look at all the occasions people were doing the works without the faith, that was considered pride, foolishness, abomination, sin, transgression and the like. Which would you rather be … innert or condemned by God? Something to chew on anyway.Inspirehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07915227658956979023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-53813254103381923942011-12-13T21:27:51.204-08:002011-12-13T21:27:51.204-08:00Anon,This is probably why people would still want ...Anon,<br><br>This is probably why people would still want to have faith and be good even with the knowledge that there is eternal progression:<br><br>"Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come."<br><br>It is easier here than in the next world, so might as well do our best here. You also assume that there will be no sort of veil on the other side too. Is that true? We don't know.Jonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05518762624199557168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-83344615209651348152011-12-13T20:41:54.714-08:002011-12-13T20:41:54.714-08:00Worthy? I hate that word. All it means is "Lo...Worthy? I hate that word. All it means is "Look at me. I'm so much better than the rest of you." I hate that word and I hear it all the time in the Church.Steven Lesterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01285355643172321289noreply@blogger.com