tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post2224533993099658497..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: The Leadership HustleAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-33879556545269741002017-09-19T07:03:38.536-07:002017-09-19T07:03:38.536-07:00Thank you MrHFMetz for your kind wishes. Perhaps ...Thank you MrHFMetz for your kind wishes. Perhaps we are both on the same path to wholeness and faith.<br /><br />I want so much for the church to be on the correct path. <br /><br />I teach RS on the fourth Sunday lessons which are from the previous conference talks. I have the blessing of being able to take the main theme of the conference address and steer it toward the perceived needs of my precious RS sisters. My major concern is to teach true doctrine and principles. It seems the more research I do, the less confident I am that I can ever know what those two things I desire to teach truly are. These are precious lives, and I have the responsibility to teach them things which will enhance their understanding of God and His love for us. The quandary is that I have taught things which I later found out were not "true". Yikes!<br /><br />Thank you for your kindness, MrHFMetz. May God bless you and yours.<br /><br />Linda GaleLinda Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935171755082721769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-89240913288284384522017-09-19T01:43:18.332-07:002017-09-19T01:43:18.332-07:00To Linda Gale: thank you so much for your warm and...To Linda Gale: thank you so much for your warm and heartfelt reply. I was surprised and a bit emotionally actually while reading. It makes my day.<br />It seems were are on the same level as far as church experience and feelings are concerned. I have been a member of the LDS church for almost 50 years, was always interested in finding the truth behind the stories we are told in Sunday School. Since the internet became available a wide field opened up and you bet I made use of that. And I started to read, not just on the internet, but books and books, also available through the internet.<br />I find it interesting that authors from the socalled fundamentalist factions, like Ogden Kraut, Lynn Bishop and Francis Michael Darter have much insight on LDS theology, and I have learned a lot from this material (though I do not share their vision on plural marriage).<br />Indeed it is sad to see the church as it is today. But let us be courageous and find strength in Christ our Lord, as you say, and hold on to the ideal of the restoration. It is not lost yet, and I can see many underground activities going on (like this web-blog for instance) that give me hope for the future.<br />May god bless you, dear sister, and thank you again. <br />From a brother in the gospel.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31259924256780722752017-09-18T21:21:32.034-07:002017-09-18T21:21:32.034-07:00Dear MrHFMetz,
Thank you for your kind response t...Dear MrHFMetz,<br /><br />Thank you for your kind response to my comment. I don't know you, but if you are a 'Mr.,' you certainly are a gentleman--which I greatly appreciate in these days of correspondence with anonymous online personas. Your tone is truly gentle, and I for one find that courtesy a rare thing.<br /><br />You also added to my expanding knowledge of church history. Thank you. <br /><br />The 'shifting' of doctrine and policy are evidence of the church being the "large & spacious building" from Lehi's dream, which is portrayed as having no foundation.<br /><br />Frankly it breaks my heart, as a life long member of the church, to find out that church doctrine and policy has little which encourages my confidence. Perhaps the 'broken heart and contrite spirit' which Christ expects from us as spoken of in the scriptures, is my broken heart in finding out that the church I placed my confidence in has been intentionally deceptive, mostly by half-truths, but sometimes by outright untruths and/or hiding the truth. In which case I must place my trust in Jesus Christ alone; and not with those who profess to be stewards of His church.<br /><br />Linda GaleLinda Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935171755082721769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86222477634986190872017-09-18T10:50:45.887-07:002017-09-18T10:50:45.887-07:00Linda Gale, hello, I just read your comment and wo...Linda Gale, hello, I just read your comment and would like to write a few thoughts in response.<br />It is is true that I Ne 13: 40 today reads different than in the original text. It is not the only text that has been handled by the LDS church, for whatever reason or agenda. I guess there must be hundreds if not thousands. We call that wresting of the scriptures – or apostacy – and it is one of the signs of this church being out of order in our time. <br />President Heber J Grant even tried to scrap half of the D&C in the thirties of the former century, replacing it by a new document called Latter Day Revelations. Because of opposition in the church he was not able to carry out that plan, though quite some changes were implemented during his administration, in doctrine, ordinances, policies.<br />You started saying that the church is true. I think it is, but only because D&C 85: 7 says that the House of God (which includes the church) will be set in order at one time. I conclude that though the Lord has not completely accepted this church as His church, He has not totally rejected it either, still considering it as His church.<br />About Christ our Lord being the Father and the Son, this is explained by Abinadi in Mosiah chapter 15. We have no reason to doubt the way the BoM was transmitted as described by Joseph F. Smith. There are enough testimonies to confirm that statement. The original text must be true; I have no idea why it was changed into the later version.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-55840995060531341502017-09-17T08:41:17.619-07:002017-09-17T08:41:17.619-07:00Dear Readers,
The church is true.
Oliver B. Hunt...Dear Readers,<br /><br />The church is true.<br /><br />Oliver B. Huntington recorded in his journal that in 1881 Joseph F. Smith, who became the sixth President of the Mormon Church, taught that the Lord gave Joseph Smith the exact English wording and spelling that he should use in the Book of Mormon:<br /><br />"Saturday Feb. 25, 1881, I went to Provo to a quarterly Stake Conference. Heard Joseph F. Smith describe the manner of translating the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith the Prophet and Seer, which was as follows as near as I can recollect the substance of his description. Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and every letter was given to him by the gift and power of God. So it is the work of God and not of Joseph Smith, and it was done in this way ... . The Lord caused each word spelled as it is in the book to appear on the stones in short sentences or words, and when Joseph had uttered the sentence or word before him and the scribe had written it properly, that sentence would disappear and another appear. And if there was a word wrongly written or even a letter incorrect the writing on the stones would remain there. Then Joseph would require the scribe to spell the reading of the last spoken and thus find the mistake and when corrected the sentence would disappear as usual." (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, page 168 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society)<br /><br /><br />Four important changes were made in the second edition of the Book of Mormon concerning the Godhead. One of the most significant changes was made in 1 Nephi 13:40. It was stated in this verse that the purpose of the Nephite records was to make known that Christ is the Eternal Father. In the first edition we read as follows:<br /><br />"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior ... " (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 32)<br /><br />In the 1964 edition it reads as follows:<br /><br />"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior ..." (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, 1 Nephi 13:40)<br /><br />So our God needed correcting by our founding prophet.<br /><br />I'm through arguing that the LDS church is lead by prophets. Even the founding prophet and translator of the BofM can't keep his story straight. Shifting sands is not a wise place to build your house.Linda Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935171755082721769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-16473310046444353982017-09-17T04:05:14.227-07:002017-09-17T04:05:14.227-07:00Robin Hood...fair pointRobin Hood...fair pointmormons sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717928160313285185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90064856520219824102017-09-17T03:52:46.934-07:002017-09-17T03:52:46.934-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.mormons sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717928160313285185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-76190724180662511532017-09-13T13:55:53.967-07:002017-09-13T13:55:53.967-07:00Such a one has appeared, namely Christ, and the se...Such a one has appeared, namely Christ, and the setting in order of Christ's Church (capitol "C", not a worldly Institution) has begun.OpenMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13245205813750451843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-85347653008217166582017-09-10T08:19:42.259-07:002017-09-10T08:19:42.259-07:00Man it can turn into a real pissing contest over h...Man it can turn into a real pissing contest over here.Xoticbyrdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02306859757928195093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14804563333643570552017-09-09T00:43:22.881-07:002017-09-09T00:43:22.881-07:00MC,
My sentiments exactly!
You put it very well an...MC,<br />My sentiments exactly!<br />You put it very well and sum up the current situation perfectly.<br />I do believe the Lord will not abandon us, but we have to be patient. We can't force the issue, like Snuffer and others have attempted to do.<br /><br />Brigham Young knew the Saints needed a reformation and went about trying to impose it. However, real reformation does not come from the top down; it is a bottom up grass roots movement inspired by individuals who are convicted of the need to reform their our lives rather than the corporate church. We are, after all, the church, the ecclessia, the congregation of believers. <br /><br />I absolutely hear what you say about graven images and false doctrine taught in the church, it really gets my hackles up. But I can't change the whole church, just me.<br /><br />I am with you brother, and I believe others are too.Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07821352042750367654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-21141750683933450562017-09-08T22:30:36.255-07:002017-09-08T22:30:36.255-07:00Robin Hood,
I agree with you that the Lord knew t...Robin Hood,<br /><br />I agree with you that the Lord knew that there was not going to be any more "thus saith the Lord" revelations to the church after D&C 136. This was obviously part of his grand design. I believe that the Lord led the saints to the Utah valley and then distanced himself. The saints were to remain faithful to the fulness of the gospel that they had received. I believe this was prophesied in Hosea 3. Israel was to abide many days without revelation and yet remain faithful to the Lord. She was not to play the harlot with other lovers.<br /><br />The problem I see is that the church (Israel) has not remained completely faithful to the Lord. The church from top to bottom has compromised itself and become entrenched in Babylon. <br /><br />Brigham Young, the man who received D&C 136, warned many times that the day would come that the saints would no longer be persecuted by the world and would "join hands with the wicked." He said that when that day came we could be sure that the Holy Priesthood was no longer in our possession. I believe that he was 100% correct in this warning. John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff made similar warnings. <br /><br />In recent decades the church has desperately tried to become popular in the eyes of the world and a mainstream church. This was fully accomplished under President Hinckley. This was his desire as well as the desire of the majority of the church's membership.<br /><br />Many early church doctrines and policies have been changed, without a "thus saith the Lord" revelation. I believe this is wrong.<br /><br />In our lesson manuals and church classes the scriptures are twisted and there is a great deal of false doctrine taught. Anyone who tries to openly correct it or dares to ask a hard or uncomfortable question at church is viewed as being out of harmony or some kind of crazy person.<br /><br />That's not to say that church members do not receive inspiration from time to time, but from what I have observed something is seriously wrong with the state of the church. I still see good in the church and especially in those members who give their lives in selfless service, but it's hard to ignore all of the bad. <br /><br />The pervasiveness of graven images in the church alone makes walking the halls at church or sitting in a Sunday School class uncomfortable, at least for me. I try to put on the blinders and tell myself that the members don't know any better, but it's still tough. Things are really messed up in a lot of areas.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-55968805332893727192017-09-08T07:13:53.161-07:002017-09-08T07:13:53.161-07:00MC, I agree with you to a certain extent.
I perso...MC, I agree with you to a certain extent.<br /><br />I personally find the last two verses of D&C 136 (the very last recorded and canonized "thus saith the Lord" revelation) very informative.<br /><br />Among other things, two statements stand out.<br />1. You have received the Kingdom.<br />2. So, no more at present.<br /><br />That is followed with a firm "Amen and Amen".<br /><br />I personally believe the Lord was telling us that the flow of revelation between Him and the church (Joseph) was now concluded, and we needed to get on with building the kingdom and implementing what we had already received.<br />This doesn't mean the Brethren don't receive revelation, or perhaps inspiration, when making church-wide decisions, but it does mean the era of regular canonized "thus saith the Lord" revelations has abated "at present".<br /><br />It will return when necessary.Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02153482601794840378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-6135124893155670922017-09-05T12:05:45.247-07:002017-09-05T12:05:45.247-07:00Great points Robin Hood.
I agree that the brethr...Great points Robin Hood. <br /><br />I agree that the brethren do not directly claim the gifts that Joseph Smith had. Nor do they claim to be his successors in every way. Their insistance on being sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators muddies the waters pretty substantially however. At least in my opinion. Especially since they do not appear to possess those gifts in the same way as Joseph or the prophets in the scriptures did. <br /><br />I agree that D&C 136 is a true revelation to Brigham Young. The question I have is why we haven't had any cannonized revelations since. I guess one could include Joseph F. Smith's dream. If we count that still been 100 years. That's an awfully long time for God not to directly speak to the church through his prophets, seers, and revelators. <br /><br />Then when you look at some of the compromises to Babylon that the brethren have made over the years it makes one wonder if the two are connected. I don't see how they can't be.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57146258438831107992017-09-04T12:06:56.558-07:002017-09-04T12:06:56.558-07:00Mormons son,
Two things:
1. The brethren have neve...Mormons son,<br />Two things:<br />1. The brethren have never "purported to be the successors of the prophet Joseph Smith in dvery way". In fact Brigham Young made a point of saying he wasn't.<br />2. However, your claim that "none of them ever received or conveyed a single revelation from God" is incorrect. D&C 136 is clearly a "thus saith the Lord" revelation from God in the first person, and was given through Brigham Young.Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07821352042750367654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-88568023950566248542017-09-03T05:01:57.812-07:002017-09-03T05:01:57.812-07:00These were men who purported to be the successors ...These were men who purported to be the successors of the prophet Joseph Smith in every way, yet none of them ever received or conveyed a single revelation from God as Joseph Smith had...<br />The Lord has and had clearly stated that no man shall receive any revelations as Joseph for the church as a body, all will come through him alone which is found in D+C 21....We have NOT been taught [ speaking of myself here ] to hold to the words of any leader of the church as gospel....Joseph said he is A prophet when he is Called as Prophet in his capacity when the Lord speaks to him and at any other time's he is a father,husband and elder to every one else.<br />I understand there is a crisis out there but again we have been counseled in the scriptures to be patient and be faithful and endure as Nephi stated...>><br />(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 25:26)<br />And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.<br />mormons sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717928160313285185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43206817768677103362017-08-30T10:18:07.415-07:002017-08-30T10:18:07.415-07:00Linda,
Thank you for your reply. I agree with mo...Linda, <br /><br />Thank you for your reply. I agree with most everything you said. I too do not believe we need or even should have or trust 'middle men' between us and Christ or God. I only see them all leading people astray and taking advantage of people's blind belief. <br /><br />I also don't believe in those 'Mormon' ideas anymore, like sealing power, Celestial Kingdom, etc, but that they were just made up by men. Christ never taught them and they don't make any sense either. <br /><br />But I do believe in a heaven and hell, so I do believe it's vital for us to determine and live right and wrong in this life. Or otherwise there would be no point or reason for this life, and God would not want or ask us to come here. For we could just learn everything we need to know in heaven, if we could live any way we wanted and all still go to heaven. <br /><br />I don't believe in multiple lives though, for I don't believe most people, if anyone, would be willing to do this kind of life over again once they get to the other side and see things as they really are. Most people who have Near Death Experiences don't even want to return to this life, let alone would want to do it over and over. <br /><br />I believe 1 life is all that is needed for us to learn all we need to, for everything else can be learned in the hereafter, for we can also learn by feeling and experiencing others experiences, so we won't have to actually live and play out all scenarios on an earth.<br /><br />But in your other post, It seems you still believe in the Holy Ghost and so I just wondered how you feel you can determine when you have the Holy Ghost with you and how you can be sure it isn't the Adversary or your own mind? For that seems to be the thing Mormons and most religions base their beliefs on, feelings, which again can be very unreliable in my opinion, for how can one tell what source their feelings come from, when we can feel love and all other emotions from either right or wrong behaviors and sources. <br /><br />Or how would one know if they have the HG or receive correct inspiration, when billions also feel they have it too, yet God tells them opposite things? Few seem to worry about being deceived by the Adversary, as if it's very unlikely or that he doesn't really exist. But no one could know that for sure, so I believe caution in believing any of our impressions is only wise. <br /><br />I agree love, unconditional love, is the most important thing we are here to learn to have, but again, without a sure concrete standard of commandments or truths or ideas to follow, which are just natural eternal law, then people will call almost anything love, even very destructive things. Like when people have affairs, they truly believe they have real love for the other person, when it couldn't be a love from God. So even if love is our aim we can get way off course w/o a set of concrete standards we try to set for ourselves, so we don't ignore or excuse or do very wrong things believing it's love. <br />Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-77643894915041914802017-08-30T09:37:31.145-07:002017-08-30T09:37:31.145-07:00Continued -
One reason the commandments of Chris...Continued - <br /><br />One reason the commandments of Christ are likely true is that they are so hard to keep and were so different than what the culture of the day was living or what the world has ever lived, so it's highly unlikely anyone would have willingly thought up such high standards, which are the greatest clue that Christ was someone very special, for he was intelligent and wise and righteous enough to come up with such rare high ideals. <br /><br />Even Christ's apostles had trouble with many of his commandments and even they wouldn't have thought up such high ideals. So you know they most likely didn't come from anyone else but Christ, while the rest of what is said about him, like what he may have said about Abraham, those things could have very easily been thought up by and added by men, for such ideas were the common thought of the day back then. So we have to sift and separate the gold from the common dust and dirt of the 4 Gospels to determine what likely came from man and what came from Christ.<br /><br />And again, I believe it's the test of this life to see if we can do that. Thus everyone will come up with different things and we just have to hope we are right, so we can gain Eternal Life. <br /><br />So yes, I do consider the 4 Gospels the only real scripture, if Christ was who he said he was. All the rest is just men talking from their own minds, and I have never known or heard of anyone else even near as perfect or smart as Christ so why would I hold up their writings as scripture, especially when they didn't even keep the commandments of the Christ or God they supposedly believe in? <br /><br />Why should I just blindly believe such unrighteous men? Let alone think them prophets? <br /><br />I believe in the 'commandments' of the Christ of the 4 Gospels, not the commandments of men, who just claim their commandments came from Christ, when they actually are far different than the commandments from the real Christ. <br /><br />Why should anyone believe in Joseph Smith's or BY's or Moses' Christ over the NT Christ? What did those men ever do to impress anyone they were righteous and trustworthy enough to follow over the NT Christ?<br /><br />It seems people follow men like them instead of Christ because they teach much easier commandments than the NT Christ did, commandments that appeal to the natural man, like serial or concurrent polygamy, racism or inequality of women, etc, so it's no surprise that most people would flock to and hold up such men as prophets. <br /><br />Yet I have never heard of any church or even anyone since Christ who believes in the real NT Christ or even knows what he taught, let alone follows it. The NT Christ seems to have no one following him. Men like to follow men, not God, for men teach way easier things.Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-19374381820320196002017-08-30T09:35:14.394-07:002017-08-30T09:35:14.394-07:00MC,
First, why would anyone believe any other so...MC, <br /><br />First, why would anyone believe any other source than the 4 Gospels to know what Christ really taught? If they are really serious about following him? All other scripture is just from minds and inspirations of very fallible mortal men who only 'think' God or Christ are revealing things to them. And since everyone thinks God says different things to them such writings from their inspirations are very suspect. Outside the 4 Gospels, the rest of scripture is not quotes from a living Christ himself personally. <br /><br />To base our beliefs on what some guy 'thinks' God is telling him, is very shaky ground, but that's how we got most all so called 'scripture' that we have.<br /><br />At least the 4 Gospels are quoting Christ himself when he was alive to speak for himself, and not thru someone else's mind who wants us to take their word for it. <br /><br />Just consider what Rock has so well pointed out how Joseph Smith was likely so wrongly quoted by men like BY. It shows how unwise it is to just believe second hand info from someone other than Joseph himself. The same thing happened with Christ, the 4 Gospels was the best we have of him speaking for himself, the rest of scripture is men claiming they speak for Christ or God. <br /><br />It's interesting how Christians just assume the Bible is all true just because the men who wrote it claim they speak for God (not even concerned about how those men lived their lives and did things most Christians would be abhorred to do), and yet they won't also believe that other religion's books of scripture are true from other men who also claim they speak for God. You would think if they just blindly believed men's claims they would believe all men's claims and believe in all religions. But they somehow can think more reasonably when looking at other religions and don't just believe what men claim, but they don't do that with their own religion. <br /><br />And even though I test and question what is supposedly said by Christ, the parts that contradict his commandments, I do find that his 'commandments' seem to all be true and so I hold those up as my standard. What he taught as commandments are different than the rest of his teachings, which are just stories and snippets of his daily life and the miracles he did and some of the other general things he said. But when you glean out just the commandments he gave (which is what he said we only have to worry about and follow anyway) that is like panning for gold nuggets, they are what are the most important, not the other stuff man may have added in. <br />Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86624177573461780582017-08-29T17:44:09.644-07:002017-08-29T17:44:09.644-07:00Dear DeeLyn,
How sweet was your reply to my comme...Dear DeeLyn,<br /><br />How sweet was your reply to my comments; thank you for being gentle and concerned.<br /><br />Somehow the "prophets", or "the brethern" just don't carry much weight in my worship or attitude. At one time they did, but no longer. <br />I am comfortable with what Rhone said near the beginning of the comment section:<br />"My worship is between me and the Lord. Why then does the church try to put leaders between me and Him? I don't need to be told how to serve by some puffed-up middle manager. I just want a church that I can worship with."<br /><br />I think we are all here to learn to love one another in all kinds of weird circumstances that we couldn't foresee and that we may be totally unprepared for. Like Jesus said, when we have done it to the least, we have done it to Him. And I think we are here to allow others to be who they feel is the right way for them to be.<br /><br />I rather doubt that there is a "celestial kingdom"; I rather doubt that we are supposed to be working to earn our own planets. I rather doubt that there is "sealing power" on the earth. I do believe I will live again after I die. I believe in multiple lifetimes.<br /><br />My desire is to be the best Linda I can be for the here and now, even though I fall way short of that goal every day. I have become a much happier person since I gave up on trying to be perfect, and just try everyday to treat others as if they were Christ.Linda Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935171755082721769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-57579338117924955622017-08-29T16:58:57.513-07:002017-08-29T16:58:57.513-07:00DeeLyn,
I'm puzzled why you keep saying we sh...DeeLyn,<br /><br />I'm puzzled why you keep saying we should follow what Christ taught in the 4 gospels, when you've made it clear that you don't trust the accuracy of any scripture and you yourself pick and choose what parts of the gospels you will believe?<br /><br />I think I get it though. You want to believe in a different Christ than the one from the 4 gospels. You don't want to believe that he did some of the things he did and taught some of the things he did.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-9622236799040454012017-08-29T13:18:49.931-07:002017-08-29T13:18:49.931-07:00Linda,
I used to think the same thing, having be...Linda, <br /><br />I used to think the same thing, having been raised in the church. But I came to realize how easy it is to think we feel the Holy Ghost, when it may instead be the Adversary or our own mind, for they can cause us to feel just the same, the Adversary can make us feel just as peaceful and wonderful and full of love or teach just as much wonderful truth as the HG can and then once he gets us to think it's the HG, he then starts to add in falsehoods, little by little. <br /><br />Thus why Christ told us to test all spirits that give us inspiration or appear to us, by making sure what they teach is true, by comparing it with what He taught. We don't really need to even know, nor can we really can know, if that spirit is really the HG, but we can compare and see if what it teaches is right or not. <br /><br />For many people in every religion on earth are just as sure that the Spirit told them their messages and inspiration were from the divine and true too, yet everyone seems to be getting different or opposite true messages, like their church is the only true religion. <br /><br />Even the prophets, leaders and members of the Church all get different and even opposite revelation, when most surely think their revelation is confirmed by the HG too. So we obviously need a more sure way to tell truth from error, especially from Spirits, just like with prophets or anyone else. <br /><br />The natural man in us tends to think or feel we are right and those billions of other people in and out of the church are all wrong and didn't really have the HG. I have since learned how easy it is to be deceived by what we think is the Holy Ghost. <br /><br />But if we follow Christ and compare notes, what a man or spirit teaches us to what Christ taught in the 4 Gospels, then it's easy to tell truth from error, especially if we believe in and strive to live his ideals. Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-19631609620153864002017-08-29T12:41:13.719-07:002017-08-29T12:41:13.719-07:00Log,
Yes, the more we keep Christ's commandm...Log, <br /><br />Yes, the more we keep Christ's commandments the more we can correctly discern false prophets. Someone who is keeping all his commandments would not fall for false prophets. <br /><br />But I don't believe we have to be perfect to be able to discern false prophets, but we do need to study, understand and believe in Christ's commandments so we know exactly what his standards are and be sincerely trying to live them, then we can tell if a prophet does so too or not. <br /><br />For instance, men who are completely faithful to and love and respect their wives will be able to easily see that men like Brigham Young or Abraham didn't. <br /><br />But we must always be rechecking our standards and behaviors, for we tend to think we are keeping the commandments when we often are not. I'm sure Joseph Smith or BY or Moses thought they were keeping the commandments and weren't leading people astray. Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-36698575614634955622017-08-28T10:30:33.895-07:002017-08-28T10:30:33.895-07:00A true prophet is like your telephone; I don't...A true prophet is like your telephone; I don't worship my telephone. My telephone may bring me good news from family and friends, or a warning about some bad thing which may happen in the future. I appreciate my telephone, but I do not worship it. No one expects me to worship my telephone, or even take as god's absolute truth whatever message I receive over the telephone, because I know that the telephone is simply the vehicle for relaying a message.......regardless of whether the message is good news, a warning, or anything in between.<br /><br /><br />A prophet is only a prophet when he is relaying an actual message from the divine. <br />Feel-good memes can be generated from any number of sources. A message from the divine will be accompanied by the Holy Ghost telling me it is a true message from the divine.Linda Galehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935171755082721769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91579759448095173952017-08-28T09:17:14.056-07:002017-08-28T09:17:14.056-07:00DeeLyn,
"How would you know [false prophets]...DeeLyn,<br /><br />"How would you know [false prophets] and not fall for them if [Jesus forbids us to judge and we actually do what he says] or discern their character an actions until you yourself are [keeping all of his commandments]?"<br /><br />I fixed your question for you. I think you'll find that, in this rephrased form, your question answers itself.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-78885937153380344852017-08-27T20:12:23.998-07:002017-08-27T20:12:23.998-07:00Log,
Actually Joseph Smith, along with Christ, ...Log,<br /> <br />Actually Joseph Smith, along with Christ, commanded people to judge 'righteously', they didn't mean never judge at all. For that's not wise or even possible. For we have to make judgments everyday in every situation about everyone. Especially regarding people, ancient or modern, who want us to believe they are a true prophet or that they have Eternal Life and have seen God, etc. <br /><br />Again, we can't usually isolate one verse and get the whole meaning of what Christ said, usually because Christ was probably not always quoted correctly. But if we read all his words we can then get a better understanding what he was really trying to teach, which was judge and discern righteously, by using his commandments as the standard, especially those who profess to be prophets, for he didn't want us to fall for false prophets who claim to know God and Christ but don't really keep their commandments. <br /><br />Joseph can have all the motes he wants, but Christ and logic just teach to beware of those motes cause they mean they are false prophets and not trustworthy to follow or believe. You don't have to be a perfect person to identify false prophets. <br /><br />It sounds like you would have people not use discernment or use Christ's standard whether someone is a prophet or not, and that we should just believe whatever claim any so called prophet makes and not try to discern whether they are true and righteous or not. <br /><br />Do you not believe there are any false prophets? How would you know them and not fall for them if you can't judge or discern their character and actions until you yourself are perfect? <br /><br />The church, like most churches, would of course say to just trust our feelings (as if the Adversary can't make us feel really good about really bad things and people), but that is how most all religions get people to believe and feel sure they are in the one true church.Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.com