tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post8863821107740996824..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: "A Piss-Poor Excuse For A Mormon"Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger152125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-72704697804155482042013-07-29T02:23:10.218-07:002013-07-29T02:23:10.218-07:00Really nice article thanks for shearing it with us...Really nice article thanks for shearing it with us.<br><a href="http://glassbonanza.com/" rel="nofollow">Glass pipes for sale</a> | <a href="http://glassbonanza.com/water-pipes-forsale/" rel="nofollow">Water pipes for sale</a> | <a href="http://glassbonanza.com/bubblers-for-sale/" rel="nofollow">Bubblers for sale</a>Sarfraz Qaisranihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02574589861857341334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-85674495070298014002013-03-05T08:57:35.712-08:002013-03-05T08:57:35.712-08:00Dear Anonimous (March 1, 2013 at 2:16PM),You state...Dear Anonimous (March 1, 2013 at 2:16PM),<br><br>You state in your comments, "I am utterly appalled if this blog is truly written by actual worthy Mormons. I am a true Mormon, who is active and in good standing with the church."<br><br>If you are "a member in good standing" why are you bearing false witness against your neighbor? And why are you not being honest in your dealings with your fellow men?<br><br>It is obvious from your comments that either you didn't read the article, you have very poor comprehension skills or you were so blinded by emotions, because the article was critical of "Bro. Romney", that all you saw was, against Romney (which is true) for Obama (false).<br><br>It would be good for you to go back and read the article. Apologize to the author of the article for bearing false witness against him. Then if you still disagree with what is said you will be in a better position to make comments which are actually relavent to the article.Gary Huntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31981043500080203582013-03-03T14:46:21.646-08:002013-03-03T14:46:21.646-08:00Dear CookieMonsta:Did you actually read the articl...Dear CookieMonsta:<br><br>Did you actually read the article? <br><br> <br> <br> <br> <br><br><br><br>Gary Huntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13752121449365372602013-03-02T01:26:32.524-08:002013-03-02T01:26:32.524-08:00CookieMonsta,You write, " I would very much l...CookieMonsta,<br><br>You write, " I would very much like to see your footnotes, proving all the things you blame Romney for."<br><br>Most of my sources can be found by clicking on the phrases highlighted in blue within the piece. They will take you to Romney's own words. If you watch the videos included you will also witness first hand Romney's rejection of the constitution which, had he won, he would have sworn a duty to defend and protect. Not to mention that honoring the constitution is a duty God himself demands of all of us.<br><br>I remain baffled by your contention that those of us who follow the teachings of Christ are somehow "anti-Mormon, while you yourself are a devoted disciple.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-25641232616316932812013-03-02T01:16:14.884-08:002013-03-02T01:16:14.884-08:00CookieMonsta,My disdain for Obama is and always ha...CookieMonsta,<br><br>My disdain for Obama is and always has been just as strong as my opposition to Mitt Romney. I wonder where you got the idea that I favored an Obama presidency? If you actually read my piece, you would see that my primary objection to Romney for president is that his stated goals mirrored those of our current president. By his own admission, Romney would not have ruled in righteousness, nor adhered to the constitution any more than Obama currently does. Can you not see that Romney was as favored by the Secret Combinations as Obama? Both men are wicked, and as the Lord warns us, "when the wicked rule, the people mourn."<br><br>You criticize me for pointing out Romney's failings, yet a key teaching of our religion is "by their fruits ye shall know them." Those who would ignore the stated goals of a man who wishes to rule over them deserve the government they get, just as those who elected Obama to office are now saddled with the oppression they are facing.<br><br>God does not expect us to support tyranny, even if the tyrant claims membership in our own church. We are expected to be guided by the word of God. You say you wonder about this blog's true agenda? My agenda is to separate LDS myths -the kind you appear to hold in high esteem- from the actual teachings and revelations from God. It is the teachings of the Lord we are commanded to follow, not the urban legends that have grown up around Mormon culture.<br><br> I would advise you to take your own advice and "check yourself before you wreck yourself." You do that by examining how closely you hold to the Iron Rod yourself, and not measuring others up to your standard of devotion to politicians.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-72270412006241196282013-03-01T21:10:27.109-08:002013-03-01T21:10:27.109-08:00I fail to see how a member in good standing could ...I fail to see how a member in good standing could vote for Romney. I don't believe any true disciple of Christ would. I believe he would do most of the same things Obama is doing. I believe they are on the same team behind the curtain. <br><br>Christ commanded us to question & judge Romney (or anyone, especially prophets) by his actions, his fruits in order to know him and what is in his heart. It isn't that hard. He appears to support evil (socialism & other evils).<br><br>I wonder how you can believe in Brigham Young & the other church leaders who followed him, for they preached & practiced completely contrary to Joseph Smith, Christ and ancient Prophets. <br><br>How can you support a Church or leaders who accuse Joseph Smith of the very whoredoms & abuse he preached so strongly against his whole life?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-29457874335280420232013-03-01T14:16:22.446-08:002013-03-01T14:16:22.446-08:00I am utterly appalled if this blog is truly writte...I am utterly appalled if this blog is truly written by actual worthy Mormons. I am a true Mormon, who is active and in good standing with the church. I see no rebuttals by those who say they are LDS, when non-Mormons attack the faith or Joseph so, I am a little suspicious of this blogs true agenda! My first choice was Newt. That being said, I would have voted for anyone, before Obama. I fail to see how a LDS member in good standing could vote for Obama or anyone that supports the Democratic party platform and remain true to their faith. If Romney was a bad member, then Obama is a demon of hell!!! No, Mitt Romney is not my first choice but, he would be light years better than Obama, whom I consider the worst president ever elected to office,(If indeed he actually was honestly voted in). I would very much like to see your footnotes, proving all the things you blame Romney for. I question the accuracy of some of your assertions. Mitt is a fallible man, woman like the rest of us. But I do not question the content of his heart nor, the conviction of his faith. Anyone questioning the veracity of another's conviction of his faith, most assuredly needs to re-examine their own walk with Christ. How many early Christians questioned Peter or Paul's faith, after their epic fail's, during Christ's cruxifiction? How many were proved to be utterly wrong in their assertions? Look at the beam in thine own eye brother. For any LDS member to claim that Obama would be a better president than Mitt, not only makes me question their faith but, also their patriotism!! Better check yourself before, you wreck yourself. CookieMonstaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-28159085818237467232013-01-03T17:52:25.538-08:002013-01-03T17:52:25.538-08:00I am glad to know there are members who did not (d...I am glad to know there are members who did not (do not) like Romney. I thought I was alone, at least where I live I am the lone Mormon who does not like Romney. Sen. Harry Reid was blasted for what he said about Romney, but I agreed with him. Soooooo many in the church were sooooo upset Romney lost and lamented on other sites how awful for the church and for America that he lost. I am not against people making money and having money, but how they make their money and what they do with it matters to me. Were they honest in making their money? Are they generous with charity work, etc with their money? Romney does not pass on either of these. On another site I was personally attacked for not supporting Romney. I did not support Obama either. I hate the people in government as they are all corrupt, all for lining their pockets at the expense of people like me, upper poor (40-50 years ago I would be upper middle class).<br>As Mormons we are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard which very few do today. Where I live the so called good Mormons think they are not doing anything bad or wrong because everyone else in the church does it and has done it for years and years and they honestly think their behavior and actions are within the gospel teachings. As an outsider it is easy to see this behavior in a small, 45% Mormon town. So this way of thinking and behaving is passed down from generation to generation. My husband's family is a prime example. Culture, culture, culture.JRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-67517435127534795382012-12-29T09:14:42.931-08:002012-12-29T09:14:42.931-08:00Kong, there is one other way that God can interfer...Kong, there is one other way that God can interfere and that is how He is working among us now. That is if we ask Him to interfere. Then we give Him permission to do what He knows is right even if it's not exactly what we want at the moment.WIldrosehttp://www.rosefromarock.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-86560056536349663562012-10-14T08:44:04.391-07:002012-10-14T08:44:04.391-07:00I came across searching for some items about Romne...I came across searching for some items about Romney. I agree with your views on his character and frankly, I am a bit worried about the gains he has made with the public at large. Your post is a must see.<br><br>Being a business type and a believer in Christ (not with the L.D.S. though), I have seen two types of people. A boss and a leader. A boss runs the show. Recycles old ideas and does not do well with change. A leader sees the world beyond the office and makes decisions that change the operation. Sometimes there are failures but failing is part of life. Romney is a boss. When a man faces challenges such as oil dependency and his only solution is to build a pipeline through a neighboring country...he is not seeing the big picture.<br><br>Thanks for showcasing his moral character. There is nothing wrong with making a mistake. If you do, just say you are wrong. When he reverse-engineered his taxes to meet a number he threw out instead of just saying he was wrong...that showed me what kind of person he is. <br><br>I hope many see what you wrote.<br>thesidewedgehttp://thesidewedge.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32079779823096894802012-09-16T11:10:59.769-07:002012-09-16T11:10:59.769-07:00It fits perfectly within the theme of this blog, S...It fits perfectly within the theme of this blog, Sam. Mormonism in its purity would produce people who embrace the gospel of the restoration, not guys like Mitt Romney who reject the teachings of Christ at almost every turn.<br><br>Mitt Romney is celebrated in the Church because he has held positions as bishop and stake president. He is held up as a paragon, though his public utterances betray him.<br><br>I would vote for Joseph Smith as president. Joseph Smith announced his candidacy for president with the publication of the pamphlet "Views of the Government." A simple reading of that document compared with the positions Mitt Romney espouses will prove the two men have nothing whatsoever in common. Mitt may call himself a candidate for office, but to call himself a Mormon seems a bit of a stretch.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34601000347731575472012-09-15T00:35:27.136-07:002012-09-15T00:35:27.136-07:00I generally find this blog to be interesting, thou...I generally find this blog to be interesting, thought provoking, and inspiring. However, I found this post to be quite amateur. It's fine to disagree with someone's policies, but to call him a "piss poor" member of the church is a low blow indeed. This post seems completely political in nature; I fail to see how it fits in with the overall theme of the blog. Definitively not impressed, Rock.Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32030591097429258682012-05-28T22:48:36.201-07:002012-05-28T22:48:36.201-07:00"Therefore, that we should waste and wear out..."Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—These should then be attended to with great earnestness. Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things." (D.&C. 123:13-15)<br><br>"... In the political world, critical evaluation inevitably accompanies any knowledgeable exercise of the cherished freedoms of speech and of the press... " - Elder Dallin H. Oaks ("Criticism")<br><br>"Our tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs does not cause us to abandon our commitment to the truths we understand and the covenants we have made... We are cast as combatants in the war between truth and error. There is no middle ground. We must stand up for truth, even while we practice tolerance and respect for beliefs and ideas different from our own and for the people who hold them." - Elder Dallin H. Oaks ("TRUTH AND TOLERANCE", CES Fireside, September 11, 2011)<br><br><br>"There is a conspiracy of evil. The source of it all is Satan and his hosts. He has a great power over men to 'lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken' to the voice of the Lord (Moses 4:4). His evil influence may be manifest through governments; through false educational, political, economic, religious, and social philosophies; through secret societies and organizations; and through myriads of other forms. His power and influence are so great that, if possible, he would deceive the very elect." - Ezra Taft Benson (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg 404)<br><br>"Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our council meetings, and in our Church publications, we hear, read or witness things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true where freedom is involved. Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrongdoing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect." - Ezra Taft Benson ("En Enemy Hath Done This" pgs 313-317)<br><br><br>"We need the constant guidance of that Spirit. We live in an age of deceit. 'O my people,' said Isaiah in the Book of Mormon, 'they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.' (2 Ne. 13:12.) Even within the Church we have been warned that 'the ravening wolves are amongst us, from our own membership, and they, more than any others, are clothed in sheep’s clothing, because they wear the habiliments of the priesthood.' (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., CR, April 1949, p. 163.) The Lord holds us accountable if we are not wise and are deceived. 'For they that are wise,' he said, 'and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.' (D&C 45:57.) And so four great civic standards for the faithful Saints are, first, the Constitution ordained by God through wise men; second, the scriptures, particularly the Book of Mormon; third, the inspired counsel of the prophets, especially the living president, and fourth, the guidance of the Holy Spirit." - Ezra Taft Benson ("Civic Standards For The Faithful Saints")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-47196951375599069632012-05-28T22:48:08.049-07:002012-05-28T22:48:08.049-07:00Thomas,Were you saying that young Mitt decided the...Thomas,<br><br>Were you saying that young Mitt decided then that he would do anything in order to get power? Has Mitt Romney been warmongering and brainwashing people into the New World Order propaganda only because he's trying to gain power? Aren't these the same tactics Gadianton Robbers used in order to gain power? And once Mitt gets more power, how is he going to "undo" all the damage he's done? Or is he going to continue to compromise with evil so that he would keep the power?<br><br>Captain Moroni wasn't bartering liberties away under false cloak of security. He wasn't giving hollow promises and fluttering people with words they wanted to hear. He was telling people the truth. He was educating people about freedom and liberty and was leading them against king-men. That's exactly what Ron Paul is doing today. If Mitt Romney is truly concerned about freedom, he should drop out of the race and get out of Ron Paul's way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-83440760364654363012012-05-08T19:58:28.087-07:002012-05-08T19:58:28.087-07:00The primary reason I have taken such a strong stan...The primary reason I have taken such a strong stand against Mitt Romney is that his claim to being a devout Mormon while taking public stands that are inimical to LDS teachings has had two unfortunate consequenses:<br><br>1. The great majority of non-Mormons look at his positions and conclude they are consistent with LDS teachings when in fact they stand diametrically opposed to our core doctrines.<br><br>2. I am finding that a great many members of the Church are ignorant of some of the the basic teachings of their own religion as revealed through the prophets, the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenants. It is apparently possible to be an active, church attending latter-day Saint in these times while holding only the sketchiest idea of what Mormonism stands for. These uninformed latter-day Saints look at Mitt Romney to be a stellar product of Mormonism, and in turn assume that his positions (which are by any definition anti-Christ and anti-Christian) are supported by the religion they hold dear, and they tend to echo such positions as being consistent with Mormon teachings when they are far from it. <br><br>If Mitt Romney did not personify Mormonism in the minds of many, both member and non-member, I would not have written about him in this forum. If I were merely interested in declaiming against Mitt Romney over his politics, I would have picked on him on a different forum. But this is a forum for discussing Mormonism and the ways in which many of us have drifted from the core tenets of our faith.<br><br>An argument could certainly be made that Mitt Romney has apostatized from conservative principles while still maintaining a claim to being a conservative. But that is not my focus here. My focus here is on how Mitt Romney has apostatized from Mormonism while still managing to give off the public impression to both members and non-members alike, that he is the quintessential Latter-day Saint. <br><br>It is all well and good to criticize me for calling out one of our own, but it would move the dialogue along if someone would make the attempt to show me where I am wrong. Is Mitt Romney actually a true and devoted follower of Christ and the prophets? Show me.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-50312021646814252132012-05-01T15:26:49.950-07:002012-05-01T15:26:49.950-07:00WELL- There are several issues being broadcast her...WELL- There are several issues being broadcast here- might we take them one at a time.<br>Not allowing ourselves to be deceived for long periods of item...(we all do some of the time)<br>The Lord said: "we will prove them herewith...in ALL things... what soever [we] shall command them" <br>Elder Neal Maxwell taught: "The very nature of a test says it has to be unfair:" <br>Apostle Paul taught: There hath not temptation taken you ...such is common to man." To the Romans he said: "For who can separate us [me-you] from the love of God? ... shall tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness...For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things, present, nor things to come, Nor height, etc ...shall be able to separate us for the love of God, which in in Christ Jesus our Lord."<br><br>Where are you my brother? I have observed that unrequited sins tend to take us away from the love and light of Christ (I might say it us usually sexual sins- self, porno, thoughts, what ever---we have not faith in Christ he will heal US that we might walk the walk and when we personally fail THEN everything becomes an issue. <br>Walking humbly in the grace of Christ does not allow for any criticism of any other man/leader or doctrine--sorry about that! <br><br>NOW the MITT issue: <br>Those who criticize Mitt expose themselves as having never run for office with intent to really win and once in office there make that difference. Sorry folks but this kind of ignorance can only be overcome by your running with intent for a public office--then come and criticize. (Ron Paul is nearly the only exception and he will never make the Presidency-though I donate to his campaign.<br>Remember when Mitt's national hero father used the word "Brain washed" and his long stong political career was killed by the press over night?--and young Mitt said to himself: "Ohhhhh, so those are the rules of the political game--well, I can play that game:" [Had he opposed the 90% population's will and the court's decision to legalize same sex marriage he would be ZERO today. Instead he did, even as Captain Moroni did, and consented to lead the wicked army forward doing more good than if he retired to his cave and slept. <br>I think it wisdom to not urinate on and castigate the name of a High Priest who has kept his covenants, to wife, children, and church and served beyond the call of duty, his fellowman--all without pay. <br>Until you can match it in a like manner _ _ _ _.Thomas Painehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08929328372329274711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-63949943472190975982012-04-27T03:27:28.422-07:002012-04-27T03:27:28.422-07:00Dan-not anonymous-As for Mitt Romney, He has some ...Dan-not anonymous-<br>As for Mitt Romney, He has some serious issues for being able to run this country. I like Ron poll and his conviction to doing changes that mean something. But the author of this blog using the clip of the poor wheelchair dude asking about weed is a shallow example for reaming Romney. Its a very controversial stimulant, and regardless of how it came under illegal status and the shady history it may have, its a stereotypical setup of a loaded question that has little helpful effect on any change in this country. Is it an important issue? sure...why is a herb banned from being privately grown for medicinal purposes? Is that a great argument to use for attacking Romney on not following the constitution? its a rediculous one when there are far better ones to use that dont involve mass teenagers going out and growing and smoking weed because romney made it legal by following the constitution.<br>I have used natural herbs for healing all my life, and my mother was a naturalist specialist I guess, and I have eaten and drank some of the nastiest concoctions known to man. But if you want to get people behind you to support changing laws about peoples rights to grow herbs and medicne, Lets not talk about weed and crack pipes...there are thousands of other herbs that are far less controversial and harmful if "innocently" abused.<br> <br>The authors history on law of the land on the other hand...Superb! Great insight and well written.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13365915270509452152012-04-27T03:02:39.319-07:002012-04-27T03:02:39.319-07:00(continued) dan-not anonymous-Are you ok with God ...(continued) dan-not anonymous-<br><br>Are you ok with God appointing a human with mortal weakness to speak for Him and lead His church? If yes...Then Joseph Smith can be a true prophet. (not a perfect one) So could Brigham young, all the way up to Thomas S monson. Can a prophet lead his sheep astray? Of course! Will the Lord allow him to purposefully lead his sheep astray? I don't believe He would allow an outright rebellion, but God might allow a misspoken comment, or minor sin to be viewed to allow us to question our relationship with Him and always remember that all humans are weak. After all...we don't worship the prophet, we just follow what he says because he is the only one taking direction from God for the whole church. Does that mean we just blindly obey? I believe I have to come to know each prophet that is called is a true prophet by personal revelation. And once God confirms that to me, I can follow that prophet in FAITH. I didn't follow Joseph Smith, Brigham Young or David o McKay. They were all dead and gone when I was born. Is it important to know if Joseph Smith was a TRUE prophet? Absolutely. Is it important that I know that the current prophet is called of God? Absolutely! Should you spend hrs and days and weeks and years questioning with boldness every prophet and every mistake and controversial thing that ever happened in the church's history that was not perfect and upstanding in every way? If you want to, but I feel it's a waste of time if the spirit can confirm to me that each prophet is called at a specific time and that group was challenged with what they needed to go through at that time. (I call it weeding out the faithful, not the blind followers) any one can follow blindly when life is good. But when God takes everything from you, your family, your health, your wealth or ability to function, most men's hearts fail them and they will curse God and die. Very few Men like Job out there. It's when the prophet asks you to do something hard... Or controversial to mainstream understanding.<br><br>So I ask this question boldly. Are you happy? Do you have a relationship with God? Has he confirmed to you that he has a prophet leading HIS church? Are you willing to give up EVERYTHING to know and follow if he tells you? What if EVERYTHING also includes having issues with Brigham Young or church being a corporation etc and giving all that questionable human error to him? Can you give up EVERYTHING for the truth and then walk in enduring faith? If not...sometimes it easier to live with a toothache.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90406785817283620592012-04-27T03:01:30.045-07:002012-04-27T03:01:30.045-07:00(continued) dan-not anonymous-Having said that, th...(continued) dan-not anonymous-<br><br>Having said that, the bell that has been ringing at some points of studying this blog and its posts, has been a bell of warning to me as I read some carefully worded ideas that are designed to instill doubt and a hunger to question already answered problems in my life. A warning to be VERY carefull in what I CHOOSE to allow to enter my mind. (God is a champion of individual choice as many have expressed and understood here)<br>As much as I admire Thomas Jefferson's challenge to question with boldness, I feel he might have also wanted to add "but don't question everything for too long, or you may believe in nothing"<br><br>Human nature is full of sin a failure. Expect to see and find lots of it in some of the most sacred of places. It does not mean it not sacred, but that it should be treated differently because the truth it contains is more important than other truth. The more important the truth, the more Satan will surely try to demean its value. This can easily be done by convincing a person something is not sacred because a person full of sin was involved at its core.<br><br>Example: I recieved the priesthood when I was 12 from my father. He was in the bishopric, and laid his hands on my head and conferred the sacred powers authority as well as ordaining me a deacon.<br><br>Years later It was found out that my father was seeing prostitutes and living very "unworthy" according to gospel principles and his covenants he had made when he had given me the priesthood. (does that mean that I didn't get the priesthood since he was an unworthy vessel to practice priesthood authority? Were all his priesthood actions amen? No. I felt that sacred experience and know it happened. His bad behavior does not change the truth of that day, nor the sacred experience of it. If I want I can CHOOSE to be bitter, I can CHOOSE to remember it as a day of lies and deceit. Something's I don't have to question further or deeper because I was given a simple truthful answer so I wouldn't have to delve into the depths of comparing what is legitimate in my dads actions, and my own authority and past actions with that authority. Some questions I recieved simple answers to long ago.<br><br>Such as if the mormon church is true, or if it is lead by a true prophet today. I feel and know that it is, but only because of prayerful spiritual revelation and by obeying thier teachings. Do they make mistakes? Sure. Ask thier wives, kids or family members. Quite human I'm sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39486048040439925142012-04-27T02:58:52.835-07:002012-04-27T02:58:52.835-07:00(continued)dan- not anonymous-So let me express gr...(continued)dan- not anonymous-So let me express gratitude first for many posts with exceptional thought provoking ideas. Many hrs of study and time devoted by many into presenting comments and ideas that I feel I have benefited.<br><br>On the flip side, I have had some definite low points , of which I cannot dismiss as careful considerations to explore but am feeling a bell go off as dangerous. What does this mean? To me and I speak only for myself, that even though we should "question with boldness" the very existence of God (Thomas Jefferson) and all things for pure truth, that there are many times 3 things happen.<br><br>1: That we question with boldness and with the spirit of God to enlighten our understanding, we find truth. In whatever form it is. Sometimes that truth is we have cancer. We thought we had a toothache. Now we now the truth. Truth is truth. Sometimes truth is not toothache. Sometimes it's cancer. Truth is truth...good and bad. <br><br>2: we question with boldness and at times ask the spirit To help us understand, and then become stupid by doing things that remove us from His influence and are left to kick against the pricks of our shallow and misguided understanding of a lie cleverly labeled as a truth.<br><br>3: We robustly question with boldness before we are ready to understand Truth, and when we learn of some of the cancer in our beliefs that we thought were healthy or just minor toothaches, we send our mind to the bar to numb our senses because the truth is too hard to handle, and we kick ourselves for believing we were "tricked" into believing we were healthy and happy.<br><br>I have often heard the phrase " tell me nine truths to convince me of one lie"<br>I believe there is addictive destructive poisonous ideas that once in a persons mind are very difficult to remove (many examples given in the book of Mormon of false prophets who were given ideas from "angels of light" aka satanic imposter using truth to convince trust and and then twisting the truth once a person embraces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-49994495531334340882012-04-27T02:53:22.267-07:002012-04-27T02:53:22.267-07:00Dan- not anonymous-I just finished reading this po...Dan- not anonymous-I just finished reading this post and all it's comments. I have had many ups and downs in feelings of yes that's true and I feel my mind expanding with important understanding, and then I perceive a strong feeling of caution and careful exploring as other controversial Ideas (to me) are expressed or celebrated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14620015363325449032012-04-23T13:30:52.922-07:002012-04-23T13:30:52.922-07:00Did he do it knowing the bank would fail? Did he ...Did he do it knowing the bank would fail? Did he profit from his friends then leave them to suffer at his success? Do you know the intent of his heart? Were you there as the mother who had friends scammed by brother Attaboy? I was married to a Brother Attaboy for 25 years. They are sneaky, dishonest and arrogant...just sayingJennynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-67259302099274664262012-04-13T05:30:36.352-07:002012-04-13T05:30:36.352-07:00I find little to disagree with you about, Andrew, ...I find little to disagree with you about, Andrew, except for what I perceive to be your belief -and correct me if I misunderstand you here- that the purpose of free agency is so that we will choose to obey God.<br><br>It is certainly the will of God, and the hope of God, that we choose to obey him and walk on the right path. But God expects us to sometimes make choices inimical to our own happiness. It does not surprise him. Screwing things up for ourselves is the only way most of us learn, and to learn, after all, is why we have come here in the first place. The freedom to choose includes the freedom to make wrong choices as well as right ones.<br><br>This idea that free agency exists only to allow us to choose obedience is a relatively new doctrine that has begun to creep into the Church in the past few years, and one that I reject. God respects our free agency to choose our own direction in life. Right or wrong, happy or unhappy, WE are allowed to decide how our own lives will be lived.<br><br>That is not to say that God is okay with our treating others unkindly; there will be consequences for our actions toward others. But if someone makes choices that lead to a life of dissolution, God will stand ready to lift him up when he is ready to make a course correction (repent), but He does not demand obedience.<br><br>The constitution was created to restrain human nature, it being human nature that men with authority tend to exercise unrighteous dominion over others. The constitution is intended to restrain this proclivity. For that reason, I believe, any penchant our "rulers" -those whose place it is to obey the rules set up by God- have for deviating either to the right or to the left of the constitution, cometh of evil.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87133435483824883132012-04-07T02:44:53.162-07:002012-04-07T02:44:53.162-07:00Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I suppose one...Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I suppose one place where we differ on this is our understanding of those verses.<br><br>It seems to me that the starting point of God's instruction regarding the law is in verse 4: "And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them." Our ultimate guidance for behavior is God's command.<br><br>From that initial premise, He then goes on to say that the constitutional law that supports "that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges" is justifiable. I understand that to mean not that the Constitution is divine, or even really the standard for judging the worth of laws, but rather that inasmuch as the constitutional law supports the rights and privileges compatible with allowing man the opportunity to obey God, then it is justifiable before God.<br><br>He then goes on to say that (as I read it) with this initial premise in mind, the members of His church are justified in befriending the Constitution inasmuch as it grants us the freedom to obey God, and that any law that does more (seeks to compel obedience to religious principle?) or less (takes away freedom and rights compatible with willing obedience?) comes from evil.<br><br>It also seems important to see the context of this scripture. The saints were under great persecution in Missouri at the time, and were faced with a very reasonable question: Do we rely on the laws of the land to protect us in our rights, or do we seek revenge? The counsel as I read it is to renounce war, proclaim peace, and seek primarily legal methods to address grievances, since the Constitutional government of the United States has principles established within it that allow for the protection of rights and freedoms.<br><br>I'm struck by the fact that the Lord uses the term "befriend," and that we befriend the constitutional law because it supports the rights and freedoms of agency. But where the laws of man do not support maintaining the rights and privileges of willing obedience to God, THEN it comes of evil. Since I read this entire passage as centering on that initial discussion of obedience to God in verse 4, I don't see deviation from the Constitution as being rooted in evil.<br><br>Again, thank you for your explanation.Andrew C.http://www.blogger.com/profile/04597946424756487838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68340577171862374982012-04-07T02:13:42.589-07:002012-04-07T02:13:42.589-07:00(Continued)I don't see the constitution as pre...(Continued)<br><br>I don't see the constitution as precisely equal to scripture as we have in the Doctrine and Covenants, where God is speaking in the first person. But it's pretty close, particularly since God, when speaking in the first person, references the constitution as being his idea. Also, if we are to consider the constitution as part of our scripture, it is only valid as long as there is no deviation from it. As God said in D&C 98:7, "whatsoever is more or less than [the constitution] cometh of evil." So to deviate from the constitution would be to deviate from the will of God(scripture)as established by him (his words)in that document.<br><br>Of course, that doesn't mean the constitution can not be amended, if that's what you are asking me, as provision for amending the constitution is inherent in the document itself. An amendment would not constitute a deviation, since amendments are authorized. I certainly don't think God expected it to remain static.<br><br>But He does expect governments to strictly abide by it, because its purpose is to restrain the natural inclination of men to wield unrighteous power over others. The freedom of men to act in their own self interest is unlimited so long as they don't infringe on others; while governments are to be kept on a very short leash. Governments do not have unlimited freedom to act; only individuals do.<br><br>I believe that is what God means in verse 7: Any attempt by government to do more or less than it is permitted by the constitution, or any attempt to curtail or restrict men in their pursuit of free agency, is rooted in evil. For this reason we revere the constitution as like unto scripture, because it guarantees the freedom of the individual, which as David O. Mckay said, is fundamental next to life itself.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.com