tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post7032216600790942397..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Rejected GospelAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52228497546089634792017-06-25T09:26:39.389-07:002017-06-25T09:26:39.389-07:00Around 2011 I saw Elder Lance B. Wickman at the Sa...Around 2011 I saw Elder Lance B. Wickman at the Salt Lake City Airport. I had been very troubled about war, being an LDS serviceman group leader for my National Guard company. I found the DVD Rock referred to very disheartening. I asked Elder Wickman about the DVD, raising the discrepancy between the policy of the church and the law of war revealed in D&C 98, to Nephi, and to Abraham. During that conversation and a subsequent email exchange, Elder Wickman told me that those scriptures do not apply to us today. When I asked him if any church president had received a revelation from God superseding God's previous word, he replied that I would find the doctrine of the church in his (Elder Wickman's) general conference talks. When I repeated the question, he repeated his answer.<br /><br />That is pretty much all you need to know about the brethren. Their opinion supersedes the revealed word of God. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08876761145806406244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34183465676718994702017-06-22T18:54:53.952-07:002017-06-22T18:54:53.952-07:00After reading the comment from Andy/unknown, I'...After reading the comment from Andy/unknown, I'll have to add my own recommendation. A person relying upon Anderson's book "War: a Book of Mormon Perspective" will be under served and ill equipped to apply scriptures to warfare. As I described in my book review (as far as I know, the only one to offer such a detailed review) its poorly researched and written as well as fatally flawed: <a rel="nofollow">http://mormonwar.blogspot.com/2015/07/book-review-war-book-of-mormon.html</a><br /><br />People are free to believe whatever they want of course, but when they offer books filled with supposed research and academic rhetoric on the matter they open themselves to rigorous cross examination. Morgan Deanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09480320552458246756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-40080256765414276682017-06-21T23:03:05.575-07:002017-06-21T23:03:05.575-07:00A book with a lot of other great references to bac...A book with a lot of other great references to backup some of the points made above and to give answers to some of the questions in the commenta above is a book that Rock previously recommended on this blog - "War: A Book of Mormon Perspective: How The War Chapters of the Book of Mormon Warn Against Wars of Aggression and the Warfare State" by Mr. Kendal T Anderson.<br /><br />I was shocked but really appreciated the reeducation. May we all find and accept the Truth here in life.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />AndyAndyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06993161620142244573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10930502151106419662017-06-19T05:12:59.197-07:002017-06-19T05:12:59.197-07:00@MrHFMetz
It's basically a fulfillment of 2 N...@MrHFMetz<br /><br />It's basically a fulfillment of 2 Nephi 26-28 wherein Nephi is speaking to the corporation pretending to be the restored church and calling it out on its lies and hypocrisies for robbing the poor and persecuting the true followers of Christ all while thinking they cannot be deceived while of course falling into satan's plan hook, line, and sinker.Dave P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09408131079502238239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-21980768982032266272017-06-18T01:39:47.544-07:002017-06-18T01:39:47.544-07:00After going through the blog again, this sunday mo...After going through the blog again, this sunday morning, I am still perplexed by this Dallin Oaks saying "It's wrong to critisize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true." That is a fascist dogma, is it not? Is this a lawyer speaking or an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ? Did not our Lord say that the truth shall make us free? If the prophet Joseph Smith was around I am sure he would give Oaks a good kick, like he did so to his brother Hyrum at one time when the latter said something terribly wrong, as I read some day. Joseph could be quite rough on such occasions.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-18417837456463824752017-06-08T07:06:56.217-07:002017-06-08T07:06:56.217-07:00Cecil,
I couldn't find that quote you mention...Cecil,<br /><br />I couldn't find that quote you mention in the Mike Wallace interview (can you reference it?). That sounds like vintage Hinckley though -- being lukewarm and all. <br /><br />In the Larry King interview, Hinckley says some more wishy washy statements like "I don't hear His voice" but I receive "impressions".<br /><br />Hinckley then quotes the Conference Center decision as an example of receiving prophetic revelation from God:<br /><br />KING: And that came from something higher than you.<br /><br />HINCKLEY: I think so.<br /><br />See http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/26/lkl.01.html<br /><br />Wishy. Washy.<br /><br />At the beginning of the interview at https://youtu.be/jAsNMWwRXvs, after he's asked if he's the prophet and speaks for the Church, Hinckley replies: "I think so."<br /><br />Not real confident in his beliefs. <br /><br />Vs Joseph or Denver saying, "I have seen the Lord and he commanded me to deliver this message." Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10385427958957369882017-06-08T06:50:13.833-07:002017-06-08T06:50:13.833-07:00At the same time, we should not be deferring such ...At the same time, we should not be deferring such things to church leaders or even the "experts" the church leaders would redirect us to. It is our job and our job alone to do the research and take it to the Lord ourselves.Dave P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09408131079502238239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-61259689864753072212017-06-08T05:51:50.566-07:002017-06-08T05:51:50.566-07:00So, back to the point about the Church pushing vac...So, back to the point about the Church pushing vaccinations. In my own family among my own adult children, there is a disagreement as to whether or not the vaccinations are actually good or bad for us. I can see there is going to be major disagreement world-wide and church-wide on this point. However, studies do show that many are negatively impacted by the vaccinations, the worst being the MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccination. Suspicions are that it causes autism and other brain-affecting problems for our children. There is evidence to show that it does help and there is evidence that it also damages brains. Why does it damage brains? I would answer that is is the preservatives which are used, i.e., formaldehyde and mercury.<br /><br />If a child is in a science class and a thermometer breaks open and ,mercury flies all over the floor it is called a hazard area. However, if a Doctor or nurse injects that same mercury into a child it is called a well-visit. So, a metal which we all know is very toxic to one's health and does cause brain damage is actually injected into our children and ourselves when we accept vaccinations.<br /><br />These are my summations and opinions that vaccinations cause more harm than good due to the additional things included in them which are really not a part of the real intent of the vaccination. A vaccination absent these brain damaging toxins may do well for everyone, but I will leave that to the experts. But any fool knows that mercury is toxic, so why do we give it to ourselves and our children just because it is called a vaccination and a degreed medical Doctor is behind it?<br /><br />I had many vaccinations in the military (USMC) which did not seem to affect me. However, before being transferred to Okinawa, Japan, in 1974, I was given four vaccinations which caused me and others to go into delirium overnight. As the day dawned, I recovered as did the others, but why did it cause this delirium? What caused it? Are there any effects which may visit me sometime in the future? How does it affect the heart, the brain, or other organs?<br /><br />If a leader in this church is inspired, he would get down on his knees and ask the Lord what to do about vaccinations. This is only my opinion.<br />Cecil Champenois, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15988762282752607021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-62355718615279956292017-06-08T05:41:17.103-07:002017-06-08T05:41:17.103-07:00For a long time, I wondered certain things about o...For a long time, I wondered certain things about our leaders. For example, I remember when Michael Wallace interviewed President Gordon B. Hinckley and asked him, "Are you a prophet?" President Hinckley's response was very lame, "I am so sustained." Believe me, I loved hearing what President Hinckley had to say, but I always wondered why if he had seen the Lord why he was not more bold in his declaration that he was a true prophet. Joseph Smith certainly did not hold back. Joseph Smith declared he had seen both the Father and the Son. He declared he was a Prophet as well. He was not weak in his declarations, as I saw in President Hinckley. I am sorry, "I am so sustained" is a very weak declaration. As I say, this troubled me at the time.Cecil Champenois, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15988762282752607021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-21618015923824347502017-06-08T05:25:44.003-07:002017-06-08T05:25:44.003-07:00The church leaders are not divinely inspired. They...The church leaders are not divinely inspired. They submit to their god the government over everything, otherwise the church would be fighting tooth and nail to decriminalize marijuana because of the miraculous properties of the cannabis plant.<br /><br />No, the corporation is a perfect example of unrighteous dominion for utilizing the power of secular law to enforce its image-protecting beliefs on the non-members in Utah.Dave P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09408131079502238239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-192602438374647062017-06-07T21:20:25.124-07:002017-06-07T21:20:25.124-07:00Cecil, I have wondered the same thing. However wha...Cecil, I have wondered the same thing. However what I can tell you is that when a missionary arrives at the MTC, he or she can sign a waiver that will allow him/ her to avoid getting any vaccinations. I know this from personal experience. <br /><br />But this doesn't excuse the lack of a warning voice from anybody in church leadership. As far as I know there has been no warning issued against vaccines. And in fact Church leaders are completely pro medical establishment and are either 100% deceived or willing participants in the mass deception. It's one or the other, there can be no middle ground. I'd hope they are "just" deceived. But how embarrassing and ignominious that is by itself. Really shameful.Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-51556552698105495592017-06-07T19:45:13.194-07:002017-06-07T19:45:13.194-07:00I always wondered why the LDS church would force v...I always wondered why the LDS church would force vaccinations upon our young missionaries, if the leaders were truly inspired. I know that the Lord knows that mercury is bad news and that vaccinations containing such toxins would invariably harm the young adults we send on missions. We know several who have come home early suffering from the toxic ewffects of vaccinations.Cecil Champenois, Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15988762282752607021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-58494495784279893712017-06-04T12:20:05.535-07:002017-06-04T12:20:05.535-07:00Rock,
Have you thought of the US support of the S...Rock,<br /><br />Have you thought of the US support of the State of Israel? I remember reading that Bruce R. McConkie said that the political State of Israel is NOT the spiritual gathering prophesied in the scriptures (yes, even our friend Bruce can get some things right) and that President Hunter said that all of the people of that area of the middle east are children of the promise and that "we" do not take sides.<br /><br />I'm reminded of this by the following article; http://www.unz.com/article/infamy-at-sea/ . It might be an idea for a blog post, especially if you could research and include opinions of religious Jews who do not support the aggression of the political state of Israel.PNW_DPerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203324465643216620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31894512941242630022017-06-01T19:27:46.838-07:002017-06-01T19:27:46.838-07:00MC,
No hard feelings at all. Hatchet buried. I ap...MC,<br /><br />No hard feelings at all. Hatchet buried. I appreciate the goodwill.<br /><br />Take care and good night.Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-17052543686680008372017-06-01T19:24:43.558-07:002017-06-01T19:24:43.558-07:00Underdog,
I sent my last reply to you before read...Underdog,<br /><br />I sent my last reply to you before reading your response, so I wasn't trying to pick a new fight. I'd rather we just bury the hatchet. At the risk of starting a new argument, which I don't want, I will just say that I don't believe Christ was married during his mortal life. I don't believe it fit into His mission at all. Could be wrong. Doesn't matter one way or the other to me though.<br /><br />I whole heartedly agree with your advice about not falling into the pitfall of the natural man and screaming for bloodlust when the U.S. invades a foreign land. In my youth I was certainly guilty of that to one degree or another. <br /><br />Hope there's no hard feelings over our little back and forth. All's forgiven on my end.<br /><br />MCMatthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-70628236396203997742017-06-01T18:57:09.942-07:002017-06-01T18:57:09.942-07:00MC,
You said: I showed that there are no instance...MC,<br /><br />You said: I showed that there are no instances in the scriptures to suggest that the Nephites and Abraham waited to fight in a just cause until the Lord expressly commanded it.<br /><br />Because it's not expressly said Jesus was married, does that make it not so? Come on, MC.<br /><br />The rest of your logic I find circular. Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80541274011145623892017-06-01T18:48:35.276-07:002017-06-01T18:48:35.276-07:00MC,
You said, "Sounds to me like we're ...MC,<br /><br />You said, "Sounds to me like we're more in agreement than we are at odds."<br /><br />Glad you finally came around. I thought the scriptures and reason I shared were persuasive. <br /><br />I try to be humble and willing to make concessions when faced with truth.<br /><br />I'm not macho. I was responding to your insult about sitting back while others fought "for my freedom." Not sure how that got lost by you. <br /><br />But since we're lovey dovey now, that's great. I'm very happy that you're not for war and death.<br /><br />The next time we invade a foreign land who hasn't attacked us, please try to restrain your <b>prior</b> instincts of "let's go kill them to protect our freedom!"Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-806548703644126762017-06-01T18:45:47.726-07:002017-06-01T18:45:47.726-07:00Underdog cont...
You asked me to show you were yo...Underdog cont...<br /><br />You asked me to show you were your logic is flawed from the scriptures. That is what I have been trying to do. I showed that there are no instances in the scriptures to suggest that the Nephites and Abraham waited to fight in a just cause until the Lord expressly commanded it.<br /><br />You had no response to that.<br /><br />For the record based on D&C 98 the Nephites and Abraham were not justified in going out to fight at all, even in the defense of their homes and family. D&C 98 says that saints were only permitted to fight after they had been attacked 4 times. They were to bare the first 3 attacks. Even on the 4th offense they were to forgive, but the Lord would justify them in fighting. There is no evidence that the Nephites waited until the 4th attack to defend themselves or that Abraham was even threatened at all. Clearly D&C 98 is talking about something other than the way you and Rock interpret it. D&C 98 does not supersede the rest of the scriptures. <br /><br />As for your repeated quoting of 3 Nephi 16:10, you have that wrong, too. The members of the church are not the gentiles. They are Israelites. This is clear from the D&C and many other scriptures. When 3 Nephi 16 talks about the Book of Mormon going forth to the gentiles it is talking about the Israelites (Mormons) bringing it to them. In fact Mormons are not only Israelites, but essentially the gathered tribe of Ephraim. The vast majority of patriarchal blessing identify church members as being of the house of Ephraim. It is the non-Mormon gentiles who are rejecting the fullness of the gospel by rejecting the Book of Mormon, not the other way around. The time is soon coming when the New Jerusalem will be established and the tribes of Israel will be gathered there in safety against the day of destruction against the wicked. That is when the gospel will taken from the gentiles and given only to the house of Israel. <br /><br />Underdog your problem is that you buy into the false teachings of that false prophet Denver Snuffer. He is the one who erroneously interpreted 3 Nephi 16:10 that way. You would do well to drop that guy like a bad habit and search the scriptures without the incorrect lens he provides blinding you. The movement he is leading is not the real thing. It is an illusion. The real movement hasn't begun yet. The One Mighty and Strong has not yet been sent forth to restore all things and gather the tribes of Israel home to Zion. Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32471111439005013292017-06-01T18:23:11.753-07:002017-06-01T18:23:11.753-07:00Underdog,
You really need to get off your high ho...Underdog,<br /><br />You really need to get off your high horse. Your logic is seriously flawed, as is your understanding of the scriptures. <br /><br />I had intended to sign off, but your last comment was so ridiculous that I'm going to set the record straight.<br /><br />First off, I honestly have no idea where you got the notion that I somehow am "preaching war and death" and "defending unprovoked bloodshed/killing/murder." Seriously, I have no clue how any sane person could get that from my comments. I'm saying just the opposite. <br /><br />What I am saying is that there are times when one must defend freedom and liberty even unto the shedding of blood. You seem to agree with that, but only when one has to defend one's self. Sounds to me like we're more in agreement than we are at odds, but somehow you insist that you are defending life and opposing death, while somehow I am advocating the slaughter of the innocent. <br /><br />What you're doing is putting words in my mouth, building a straw man argument, and then trying your best to knock that straw man down.<br /><br />I have not once insinuated that you are a coward, but somehow you feel the need to use tough talk on me to prove how macho you would be if someone tried to attack you. Sounds to me like you are a little insecure.<br /><br />You don't consider your WWII vet grandfather to be a murderer, nor do you consider those currently serving in the military to be murderers, yet somehow I am a murderer and so are the rest of the Mormons and Americans because we uphold our military? That doesn't make any sense. By the way, unless you don't pay any taxes, you are upholding our military which makes you just as murderous as the rest of us.<br /><br />For the record I have stated several times that I don't condone the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. I wasn't even born during Korea or Vietnam so I'm not sure how exactly I am guilty of murder or hiring killers to murder for me as you have repeatedly suggested.<br /><br />I also have stated repeatedly that Korea and Vietnam are tricky and that I could in fact be wrong about those wars being just. I guess that's not good enough for you since you keep carrying on about 2 million dead Vietnamese. <br /><br />Two million dead Vietnamese is a terrible tragedy, as is the loss of American lives in that conflict. Not really sure how many of that two million dead Vietnamese were killed by U.S. troops, and I'm not sure how many were civilians. I would suspect that a large amount of those deaths were South Vietnamese killed by the Vietcong or Vietcong/North Korean soldiers. Hard to say for sure. I wasn't there. The loss of life, although tragic, does not in and of itself make it an unjust U.S. war. By that logic the Nephites fighting off the Lamanites and having so many dead on both sides that they couldn't be counted would automatically make the Nephites warmongers and murders. Also using that logic one could say that France was somehow responsible for all the deaths in the revolutionary war, because they aided the Americans. <br />Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-20406789643489940062017-05-31T20:01:22.089-07:002017-05-31T20:01:22.089-07:00Part 2 of 2:
If some Vietnamese hasn't attack...Part 2 of 2:<br /><br />If some Vietnamese hasn't attacked me, then I certainly have no right to attack him, much less kill him. That would be called murder and a capital crime. <br /><br />Thus I can't hire somebody to go kill him either. I'm guilty either way of murder. <br /><br />In 3 Nephi 16:10 and other verses, Christ says the Gentiles are guilty of <b>murder. </b> I don't believe hoardes of Gentiles are going around literally murdering people with their <i>own </i>hands. But they DO murder by voting for and sustaining Congressman and presidents who send American troops overseas to kill in preemptive wars where there has been no attack.<br /><br />Do I look at my WWII vet grandfather as a murderer? No. We were attacked. War was declared. Volunteers enlisted to repel and defeat those who attacked us. <br /><br />We shall be judged according to our knowledge just as we can't be saved in ignorance. I don't judge anybody's salvation. We are required to judge righteously and discern the wolves from the sheep, the truth from the lies.<br /><br />I've laid out the case why pre-emptive war is akin to murder. It certainly isn't love or forgiveness. Based on Benson's and common sense logic above, it would be an obvious crime of murder. <br /><br />I am amazed that I have to have an argument with a fellow Mormon brother, where he is defending unprovoked bloodshed/killing/murder, and I'm trying in vain to persuade him to forgive and love and certainly not to go around killing any one person (certainly not millions) who is no more threat to us than we are to him. In fact WHO is more of a threat? America or any other nation. WE are the terrorists today. Ask the half a million dead Iraqi children and their parents who is more of a threat! And please don't think I'm referring to uncle Jim or father Ed who is serving in the military. I'm mainly referring to the globalist scum who run our country. (God bless Trump to stand against them. We shall see.)<br /><br />How can a decent person (I assume) like MC or anybody, who values human life and who is a Christian, not be convinced? What monsters have we become? I am truly horrified that many Mormons cannot be reasoned with and cannot be EASILY convinced to let go of their wicked traditions! Instead they dig in and argue FOR death and destruction.<br /><br />If the logic and scriptures above aren't persuasive, please explain how they fall short instead of saying I have hate when I'm the one defending human life and preaching the gospel of love while MC is preaching war and death.<br /><br />Forgive me for defending life and opposing death! I think life is precious and worthy of defense. And make no mistake, I would be a vicious killer like the sons of Helaman if I had to be. I'm no pansy, no chicken hawk who would shrink from a righteous fight. <br /><br />But my model should be Christ and He teaches tolerance until one has to defend himself at which time, you better be ready for a fierce warrior to inflict death as Captain Moroni and Mormon and his son were all skilled in the arts of war. Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81716217262760392502017-05-31T19:59:42.333-07:002017-05-31T19:59:42.333-07:00Part 1 of 2
Quoting Ezra Taft Benson's classi...Part 1 of 2<br /><br />Quoting Ezra Taft Benson's classic:<br /><br />"The proper function of government is limited only to those spheres of activity within which the individual citizen has the right to act. By deriving its just powers from the governed, government becomes primarily a mechanism for defense against bodily harm, theft, and involuntary servitude. It cannot claim the power to redistribute the wealth or force reluctant citizens to perform acts of charity against their will. Government is created by man. <b>No man can delegate a power that he does not possess. The creature cannot exceed the creator.</b><br />In general terms, therefore, the proper role of government includes such<b> defensive </b>activities as maintaining national military and local police forces for protection against loss of life, loss of property, and loss of liberty at the hands of either foreign despots or domestic criminals.<br /><br />"It also includes those powers necessarily incidental to the <b>protective </b>function.<br />"We should recognize that government is no plaything. It is an instrument of force; and unless our conscience is clear that we would not hesitate to put a man to death, put him in jail, or forcibly deprive him of his property for failing to obey a given law, we should oppose that law...."<br /><br />How do we determine if, for example, government can go kill others (wage war).<br /><br />"There is one simple test. Do I as an individual have a right to use force upon my neighbor to accomplish this goal? If I do, then I may delegate that power to my government to exercise it in my behalf. If I do not have that right, I cannot delegate it.<br /><br />"If we permit government to manufacture its own authority and to create self-proclaimed powers not delegated to it by the people, then the creature exceeds the creator and becomes master."Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5682515345797721172017-05-31T18:50:37.116-07:002017-05-31T18:50:37.116-07:00Underdog,
I have to move on too.
I hope you'...Underdog,<br /><br />I have to move on too. <br /><br />I hope you're prepared for the Lord to judge you with the same selfrighteousness and arrogance in which you have judged me and most of mankind. For as you know we all will be judged in the same manner in which we ourselves judge others. You have repeatedly called me a murderer and have made a number of other unjustified accusations against me. <br /><br />Not sure where all your hatred is coming from. <br /><br />Of course you have the right to say and believe whatever you want. <br /><br />Good thing you are so privileged to be an American citizen and not living under the rule of facism or communism where you could be sent to a slave labor camp or shot outright just for speaking your mind. <br /><br />You even have the right to go spit on the graves of our murderous WWII vets too if you want, who even you have to admit fought a constitutional war. Their service and sacrfice very likely preserved your rights. <br /><br />Take care<br /><br /><br /><br />Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-40912575605357649292017-05-31T17:22:30.373-07:002017-05-31T17:22:30.373-07:00Underdog,
I forgot to address your Switzerland co...Underdog,<br /><br />I forgot to address your Switzerland comment. <br /><br />Switzerland has not been attacked in during the World Wars not because the have such a good defense and stay out of everyone else's business, but rather because they lend money too and hide the money of anyone and everyone, especially the wicked. They were hiding Nazi money and posed no threat to Hitler. This is why they were left alone. The Nazi's could have rolled over them if they wanted to. That's not to say that keeping to themselves and having an amazing defense plan hasn't worked to their advantage. <br /><br />Also in response to your accusation that I made a blanket statement as to the allies being justified in WWII, I will just say that I do not think every action the allies took in WWII was justified. I don't condone their bombing of civilian targets, especially Dresden and Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't condone the rape and pillage the Soviets perpetrated against Germany and the rest of Eastern Europe. I don't condone British and American soldiers raping German and Italian women either. Nor do I condone allied soldiers killing axis soldiers in cases were the could have clearly captured them instead. Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-81383118868892152742017-05-31T17:21:39.234-07:002017-05-31T17:21:39.234-07:00The great challenge and test in life is to discern...<br />The great challenge and test in life is to discern truth from lies. <br /><br />Alma 43 should address your concern about what the Lord is okay with:<br /><br />46 Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.<br />47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.<br /><br />Other than Alma 43, some relevant principles are:<br /><br />1) Forgive 70 x 7.<br />2) Forgive in order to be forgiven. <br />3) Turn the other cheek.<br />4) Thou shalt not kill.<br />5) If somebody goes after your coat, give him your cloak also!<br />6) Love one another! <br />7) Love God! <br /><br />Would there be war with people forgiving others as the Lord did and taught, even when on the cross?<br /><br />How could there be war if life was valued so that murder didn't happen.<br /><br />But we live in a sinful world. And bad stuff happens. It's "complicated", right? So these commandments can't really be lived, right? <br /><br />Luckily, we have the inspired Constitution. War is supposed to start only if done by the voice of the people. <br /><br />In absence of a true prophet who says "thus saith the Lord", the voice of the people had to suffice.<br /><br />And for individuals, we have the right to defend ourselves even unto bloodshed. <br /><br />"Extremist views"? I would beg to differ. I think "extreme" is 2 million dead Vietnamese and 68,000 dead Americans. THAT is an extremist view and an abomination. <br /><br />Madeline Albright and those who support the warstate are the extremists, not people like me or Rock: https://youtu.be/omnskeu-puE. Madeline and her friends support these illegal, unnecessary, immoral, unconstitutional, and frankly anti Christ, Satanic wars "in the name of democracy or liberty" or whatever euphemism you care to attach. You are guilty of murder if you support these wars. It's perfectly logical and just for you to be convicted of murder if you hire somebody to do the killing for you. I.e., support your military waging unprovoked war as you arguing for. Yes, YOU can vote for neocon warmongers like Romney,<b> whom no doubt you voted for!</b><br /><br />Why not just repent instead of arguing Satan's argument? You are a Christian? What are you hardened against the gospel? <br /><br />Last point, lest you think people who subscribe to love and forgiveness and defensive force are weak. I can assure you that you do not want to get in a fight, a war, with people like me, with people that try to forgive and live the gospel. Don't mistake love and goodwill as weakness. <br /><br />The most vicious and mighty fighting warriors are people like Captain Moroni and Lehi and Teancum, or your regular father or son who love God and man. "They had fought as if with the strength of God; yea, never were men known to have fought with such miraculous strength; and with such mighty power did they fall upon the Lamanites, that they did frighten them." <br /><br />There is much power in truth, and I know that what I'm telling you is true, while those who promote and defend the warfare state are of Satan, and he could care less about those who serve him. <br /><br />I got to move on. If you can't comprehend the gospel of love and understand it's antithetical to offensive war, after hearing the scriptures and logic laid out above then I am wasting my time, and yours. Good luck. Underdog2https://www.blogger.com/profile/11725899703711092900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30136703108478712392017-05-31T16:17:22.359-07:002017-05-31T16:17:22.359-07:00Cont...
Yes you are absolutely correct that most ...Cont...<br /><br />Yes you are absolutely correct that most of the German soldiers in WWII believed they were fighting a just war, at least initially. There was good reason for that. Of course they didn't know all of Hitler's sinister plans. Most of the fighting took place on the Eastern Front against the wicked Bolsheviks. Later as the tied turned they were in fact fighting a very justified war in doing everything in their power to keep the Red army from reaching their homeland and raping and murdering millions of their women and enslaving them. I suppose you'd have them lay down their arms and sit idly by as the Russians raped and tortured helpless women, children, and elderly, after all the Lord didn't expressly command them to go out and fight the Red Army did He?<br /><br />You accuse me of being stuck in the matrix and accuse me of plagiarizing Hinckley's talk from 2003. I actually haven't heard or read that talk since I watched it in conference back in 2003. I do recall him making a good point about Christ saying that He wasn't coming to bring peace on earth but rather the sword. I do agree with that. <br /><br />You are correct we do live in a world of lies where things are not just as they appear. So what are we going to do about it? Do we just sit back and point fingers at people and ring our hands hands and say it's all an illusion? Or do we do our best to do what good we can and make the best of whatever is thrust upon us?<br /><br />Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.com