tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post6451968582809157700..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Too Bad I Don't Like BeerAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger298125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-12824651205379732002022-07-18T08:22:01.258-07:002022-07-18T08:22:01.258-07:00Waowwww. This j interesting. Also read more from p...Waowwww. This j interesting. Also read more from pesthut.comDR. APPIAHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832505675282041910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-54234450490779805702017-04-17T11:34:59.331-07:002017-04-17T11:34:59.331-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.matt lohrkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159067604487338024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84925447595066440372017-03-14T17:18:52.769-07:002017-03-14T17:18:52.769-07:00I eat neither meat nor drink beer, I have not chan...I eat neither meat nor drink beer, I have not changed my diet, just because I no longer seek to follow Church council; actually I slowly began to disregarded that council over the past decades, whenever the Spirit advised me otherwise. <br /><br />The Word of Wisdom is lived by the Spirit, and Christ's teaching to us, not by anything else .Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10632785288526440644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10293197418776815472016-12-03T23:48:53.724-08:002016-12-03T23:48:53.724-08:00I can't read very well as I'm practically ...I can't read very well as I'm practically going blind and have nerve damage. Can you give me a list of beers and wines that you know of that would be in harmony with the word of wisdom? I"m going to try some very light drinking to help me relax and alleviate tremendous suffering. Thanks, AaronAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05146180638608691323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-22312679103320398852016-08-11T17:48:17.030-07:002016-08-11T17:48:17.030-07:00The WoW isn't a 'commandment' in the s...The WoW isn't a 'commandment' in the sense that D&C 89 was amended by any subsequent revelation. It is a measure of faithfulness to abstain from the proscribed substances, but I would always hesitate to 'sell' the 'health' benefits, or get into a discussion of what is 'harmful'. In general, we ought to be good stewards of our own bodies for obvious reasons, but I hardly believe that "Gawd" is going to get 'pissed' at me for my indulgence in Red Bulls and RockStars or the Tuesday night sojourn to Del Taco for "Taco Nite". I did once, when going through a significant personal crisis a few years ago, have a few beers here and there, my no-longer-factor-original GI track having some interesting reactions to an "Arrogant Double Bastard", which then I couldn't even finish. Since 8/31/2014, I've kept away from any alcohol and don't miss the buzz (though when it's hot a 'cold one' is appealing simply because it's COLD). In fact, I'd also taken to downing those 'Starbucks in a can" drinks, and those were HARDER to forego, but I did. It took about two months before it became habit again to 'abstain'.<br /><br />We've been given a list of proscribed things, which NOW can include also drug abuse (even that of legally prescribed medicines), or Kava (IDK how strict the Church is in Polynesia regarding "Kava Culture", but I know that participation thereof is discouraged). That's enough to 'comply' with IF one wants to be considered 'in good standing' for purposes of serving in official callings or entering the Temple. And I live well with that. It's a matter of submission and humility. Do I really get on my self-righteous high horse and denounce those that pop open a beer after work and relax in front of the 'boob tube'? That seems pretentious, ridiculous, and NOT what the Savior would do. Having worked for over 20 years in Environmental Engineering,and having acquired enough familiarity with toxicology to be 'dangerous', I can say that alcohol, like almost anything, can be partaken of in MODERATION, for most w/o ill effect. The hell of it is staying MODERATE. A good lady friend, whom I term my 'beloved Snips', herself struggled with alcoholism prior to her membership in the Church. I don't even make jokes about beer or booze in her presence, as to her it was no laughing matter. It's part of what the Apostle Paul would describe as not placing a 'stumbling block' in front of someone else. For some, even ONE drink triggers binge drinking and other misbehavior. However, reciting scare tactics, IMO, ridicules the argument. I'd rather go with the approach, 'what's RIGHT with it?". For some, they can drink moderately and be 'right', others can't. We LDS choose to render the tolerance level at ZERO in order to humble ourselves and stand worthy. Ergo, given the choice between an Arrogant Bastard Ale and going to the Temple, I'll choose the Temple everytime. Yes, life is a bit less 'fun' on earth for that, but I'll 'roll with it', and let the Lord worry about how to make up any missed 'fun' if that's important.Doug the Ex-Fat Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10449770493587344595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13424421642431192792015-08-16T21:04:32.525-07:002015-08-16T21:04:32.525-07:00"It doesn't matter what your more recent ..."It doesn't matter what your more recent 'prophets' say about it, because they have never canonized revelation into their scriptures to the otherwise."<br /><br />This statement flies in the face of very clear church doctrine, regardless of the history of beer drinking in the church. How did you come to this conclusion?<br /><br />I think in the end it comes down to are you willing to be obedient to the counsel of the prophets, even if it's something maybe you don't see as being so bad, like drinking a few beers. Many good people drink beers, but again no one ever became an alcoholic and destroyed his life and others who never drank alcohol. Maybe just that benefit is enough for us to accept we should abstain. I for one won't violate commitments I have made to keep the commandments based on the 'reasonable' arguments given above. It's not worth the risk that maybe your rationalizations are misleading you. There are certainly other ways to relax than drinking alcohol that I'm sure have the same benefit.<br /><br />I'm not perfect and certainly have issues I struggle with, but why should I chance adding alcoholism as another just because it might reduce my stress?<br /><br />If you struggle with this logic you should ask the living prophet why it's the way it is now, maybe he will clarify and tell us all it is OK. After all this is how we got the WOW in the first place, a concerned member went to the prophet with a specific problem and the WOW was the result.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05117851350205370807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-17653628505917512162015-07-13T21:33:53.651-07:002015-07-13T21:33:53.651-07:00By conflict of interest, I mean that the Church PR...By conflict of interest, I mean that the Church PROFITS from the members breaking verse 89:13Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782487876786002839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69704778715069258642015-07-13T21:26:12.384-07:002015-07-13T21:26:12.384-07:00I've been reading through these comments and t...I've been reading through these comments and they are very eye opening. Its nice to see people looking into things, the way any responsible individual should.<br /><br />One subject I haven't seen in the comments ( I haven't read them all ) is the one pertaining to D&C 89:12-13 "" 12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;<br /><br /> 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine. "".<br /><br />To me, this says in plain bible English that Meat is not to be eaten, except during times or winter, cold or famine and even then it should be eaten sparingly (The verses are plain and they are obviously meant to be understood as one)... I have noticed that members of the church always mention that it is to be eaten sparingly but never mention the bit about winter, cold or famine. Meaning that the Church in General purposely ignores the verse 13. The verse cannot be misconstrued considering the antonyms for "pleasing".. <br /><br />Now, I am 37 years old and have never once met a Mormon that actually keeps that part of the word of wisdom ""Meat is only to be used in times of winter, cold or famine and even then it should be used sparingly"", Yet they all claim to keep the word of wisdom? So I started investigating it, you know asking questions, and the rudeness and pure anger that was expressed to me was startling, especially when I would ask how it was that members could go to the Temple while Unrepentantly breaking the Word of Wisdom... <br />So the things I have heard back are mixed, mainly stating that the Modern Day Profit says that its OK (One Missionary even told me that it is because they didn't have refrigerators back then, which made me laugh).. In my growing curiosity, i started wondering why the modern day church would condone such a thing (in this case saying that its ok to do something that the Word of Wisdom says not to do, where the thing about beer is saying not to do something that the Word of Wisdom says that you can do), i did some more research and discovered a post in Livestock Weekly where it Names the Mormon Church as the LARGEST COW-CALF PRODUCER in the entire United States! When interviewing the Manager (Chip Ramsay) of Deseret Ranch, this is what was said: """We’re in this for a profit," Ramsay says. "We're a taxpaying entity. We pay property taxes and income taxes just like anyone else.""" Now, lol, my question seems to have been answered through research and not from the mouth of any prophet.. It would seem, concerning the Modern day Church and the Original Scripture known as the Word of Wisdom, there is a blatant Conflict of Interest!! Which leads me to believe that the Church has definitely become Corrupt... <br /><br />I'm still looking into this thing and was wondering if any of you educated folk had any thoughts on the subject.<br /><br />Link to the article below:<br />http://www.livestockweekly.com/papers/01/01/25/whldeseret.aspAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782487876786002839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-17613684731512109052015-07-09T08:45:12.489-07:002015-07-09T08:45:12.489-07:00D&C 59 is where I think you can tie in many of...D&C 59 is where I think you can tie in many of the ideas stated above such as moderation. I love a good stout, or in the heat an crisp IPA. I've found that a beer in the late afternoon just before dinner is my perfect window. A slight buzz to gladden the heart and prepare my palate for the evening meal...<br /><br />Judgement is important, drinking a beer simply because I have a window of opportunity almost seems inappropriate (for lack of a better term). But at the right time in the right place....ahhhhh. <br /><br /> 16 Verily I say, that inasmuch as ye do this, the fulness of the earth is yours...<br /><br /> 17 Yea, and the herb, and the good things which come of the earth, whether for food or for raiment, or for houses, or for barns, or for orchards, or for gardens, or for vineyards;<br /><br /> 18 Yea, all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;<br /><br /> 19 Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul.<br /><br /> 20 And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87534483746767871642015-06-01T12:54:49.220-07:002015-06-01T12:54:49.220-07:00May I suggest "Poligamy Beer" for the hi...May I suggest "Poligamy Beer" for the history loving Latter Day Saint. It's motto is "When one just isn't enough!"<br /><br />Back in the good old days, I loved a Sam Adams Dark.<br /><br />Now, however, I work in the Temple and wish to continue working in the Temple.<br /><br />Ed FrancomEd Francomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18022152393513372274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-37933636027641112082015-05-27T11:21:43.356-07:002015-05-27T11:21:43.356-07:00The wayback machine has a link to the now disappea...The wayback machine has a link to the now disappeared PDF<br /><br />https://web.archive.org/web/20110611231124/http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/MStar&CISOPTR=22187&filename=22188.pdf<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-11001048461732494052015-03-13T03:08:15.516-07:002015-03-13T03:08:15.516-07:00if you drink half glass beer daily.....it makes yo...if you drink half glass beer daily.....it makes you healthyFolding wagonshttp://www.thewagonstore.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-74399817691406659762015-01-12T15:45:27.905-08:002015-01-12T15:45:27.905-08:00I suppose you could have some Vegamite with a wate...I suppose you could have some Vegamite with a water chaser. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite<br /><br />I never liked beer either until I had wheat beer in Germany. I always wanted beer to taste like fresh baked rolls, which is what it smells like to me. Wheat beer comes closest to that ideal, but not sure it has the same nutritional benefits as other beers. Sorry I can't recommend a brand. I'm not an expert.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-3386819011621897722014-11-28T09:52:30.783-08:002014-11-28T09:52:30.783-08:00Thanks for the background on the history of how th...Thanks for the background on the history of how the word of wisdom became a commandment and requirement to be baptised today. I have been looking for that answer for some time now. Hugh Nibley must have agreed and enjoyed a beer -- ref is here: http://hughnibley.net/2012/08/16/not-able-to-buy-a-beer-in-utah/deila taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06814109921379333571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-55570639018921310452014-11-22T05:18:35.943-08:002014-11-22T05:18:35.943-08:00I have heard that socalled liberal mormons are peo...I have heard that socalled liberal mormons are people who do not have a testimony of the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This also applies to the use of alcoholic beverages contrary to the advise given in in the sciptures on the subject. Life in fear of the Lord is exciting enough without this stuff, and if it's not, you have a problem with yourself. So have a good time, folks.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-39045958172011903132014-11-18T18:48:36.885-08:002014-11-18T18:48:36.885-08:00If you want to ease into beer then try to get a ma...If you want to ease into beer then try to get a malt drink before it is fermented. There were popular malts on my mission in Dominican Republic that we drank - and I liked them a lot! There they were called Malta Morena and Malt India. People gave it to their kids and it was good. if it had alcohol it was so small amount no one noticed. I would drink a malt here if I could find agood one. Malta India tasted better to me than Malta Morena and it was a little be darker.TKimballnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-10579734993594088922014-11-13T00:37:47.657-08:002014-11-13T00:37:47.657-08:00Being a Jack Mormon I started out drinking the har...Being a Jack Mormon I started out drinking the hard liquors, but I only do that very sparingly. I started out the same with beer thinking that it tasted like piss, however that being said the only beers that I ever drank were the pale beers, the ales and so on. Little did I know that there are other types of beers, I found out soon that I enjoy the darker beers, I'm quite partial to the Lagers, Sam Adams is a good selection. If your in Salt Lake though The Bohemian Brewery is a good place to try the different beers, my personal favorite is the Bohemian's Viennese Lager. My girlfriend like's the Czech Pilsner. Basically have fun with it, for instance just the other night I tried Fosters Beer for the first time and was pleased with it. Remember that usually the paler the beer more than likely it's a wheat beer, the darker the beer, that's more hops and barley.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-40111681139139505332014-11-03T12:10:40.092-08:002014-11-03T12:10:40.092-08:00I think that if you want to try a really good beer...I think that if you want to try a really good beer, I would go to ratebeer.com or beeradvocate.com and find great brews. Also, I would recomment that you go to a local brew pub and try it with some food. My first experiences with beer were less than compelling, but like anything of value, persistence and dedication always pay off. Keep at it and in a handful of visits, you'll be a fan of one of the most popular drinks in the history of mankind. There is a reason that its popular.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-8008446353139938842014-10-28T23:03:08.141-07:002014-10-28T23:03:08.141-07:00Hard alcohol is indeed a deadly drug. But the Lord...Hard alcohol is indeed a deadly drug. But the Lord makes a distinction between distilled liquor (the hard stuff) and fermented fruits and grains, which can be beneficial in moderation.<br /><br />The problem with modern LDS teachings it that those teachings ignore the words of the Lord and lump all alcohol as harmful.<br /><br />A ripe banana contains about two droppersful of alcohol. And Bananas are good for you.<br /><br />(eaten in moderation, of course.)Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84979684366393849342014-10-27T13:38:56.767-07:002014-10-27T13:38:56.767-07:00WOOOOOW...beer has been so good for all those who ...WOOOOOW...beer has been so good for all those who drink it. Alcohol, the deadliest drug known to man, in terms of raw numbers. Grow up guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65514010357911498452014-09-29T18:47:01.680-07:002014-09-29T18:47:01.680-07:00Anonymous,
Are you unaware of the revelations cont...Anonymous,<br />Are you unaware of the revelations contained in the Doctrine and Covenants?<br /><br />Although it is helpful to go back to the New Testament and the Book of Mormon, those messages were not what I was referring to when speaking of "modern revelation."<br /><br />These statements from the mind of the Lord are the most recent words we have given to us from the mouth of God, and they remain the pattern required when considering any further revelation as legitimate. You say, "The question is... whether we accept the prophets and apostles of today as successors to the responsibilities of Moses, Abraham, Peter, John, Nephi, Alma, Moroni, and Joseph Smith"<br /><br />Well, Joseph Smith gave us the pattern by which revelations are received and conveyed to the members. Unless someone purporting to be a modern day prophet provides us with the words of the Lord as conveyed through him, we are not actually receiving any prophecies or revelations, are we?<br /><br />Have we received wise counsel and valid teachings from these men? On many occasions, yes. But to equate a conference talk read from a teleprompter with an actual revelation from the mouth of God is a bit of a stretch in my book. In all the citations you provided, I have yet to see any place where God commanded us to follow a prophet. That we are to "give heed to his words" I agree, as give heed means to consider carefully. We are NOT instructed to follow or obey him, and I submit that even giving heed only pertains to a message the prophet is delivering that God has put into his mouth.<br /><br /> In my lifetime I have yet to read or hear any statement from a modern day president of the Church where he states he is delivering a message directly from the Lord. But I have read many instances where the Lord warns us against trusting in the arm of flesh or in following anyone other than Him.<br /><br />(By the way, your cite of D&C 1:37-38 as though it refers to things to be spoken by future presidents of the church is inaccurate. Read the entire revelation. I don't think it pleases the Lord when we take only a portion of what he says and then spin it out of context to support a position that goes against his original intent.)Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-13383611687892309122014-09-29T16:10:40.308-07:002014-09-29T16:10:40.308-07:00Anonymous 2:52,
I believe there is a huge differ...Anonymous 2:52, <br /><br />I believe there is a huge difference between 'The Gospels' (the words of Christ) and everything else ever written by men who profess to be prophets. <br /><br />The Gospels are supposedly the word's of Christ, a God, while everything else in the scriptures was written by fallible men, even if they were prophets. <br /><br />For even true prophets preach some truth and some error, for they are mortal. But Christ was perfect. <br /><br />I have not found any error in the teachings of Christ, even if they were recorded by men, they appear to be far superior & true then any other teachings from mere mortals, even prophets. <br /><br />Much, if not most, of the rest of the New & Old Testament and the BoM, D&C, etc, is riddled with error and falsehoods and the doctrines of men. There are far to many falsehoods in the rest of all scriptures to ever trust them to be true, UNLESS they teach the same things as Christ did. <br /><br />Christ said only trust those who preach & keep his commandments and have Christlike love. I don't believe any prophet or leader in the LDS Church fits that bill. <br /><br />I do not find any proof anywhere that Christ called Pres. Monson or Brigham or even Joseph Smith to be a prophet or to lead his church. I do not believe they follow the teachings of Christ and prove with their 'fruit' that they are true prophets & disciples of Christ, in fact quite the contrary. <br /><br />Christ said to prove people 1st before accepting or trusting their claim to be prophets or listening to a word they say. <br /><br />Anyone can say they are a prophet, anyone can claim revelations, visions and visitations from God, that is nothing new and actually quite common all through history, even today, but few today or ever have ever proven they are true disciples of Christ by the way they teach, live and love. <br /><br />The only scriptures we can trust are the words of Christ in the 'Gospels', if they are in error then we have nothing and everyone is on their own to find the truth directly from God. BKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32202425549420428852014-09-29T14:52:10.437-07:002014-09-29T14:52:10.437-07:00And yet, name for me your favorite phrase in the s...<br />And yet, name for me your favorite phrase in the scriptures that comes directly from the mouth of God. Find the "purest" teaching from the pen of Jesus himself? Unless you possess books I do not, this task is impossible for the simple truth that the gospel as we know it comes from the mouths and pens of authorized testators. Hence, "The gospel according to Matthew/Mark/Luke/John", the epistles of Paul, the writings of Peter and John, the sermons of King Benjamin and Alma and Moroni all are God's word through the mouths of his chosen and anointed. Certain is the point that an apostle or prophet's responsibility is to honor that calling and witness of only the things of God and we are to follow them, not because of their own worth, but because of their calling and responsibility to witness of Him whose church this is. But we can make no mistake my friend, we are commanded in those same scriptures to follow the prophets and apostles--in the OT from the words of Jehoshaphat, 2 Chronicles 20:20; in the NT from Paul's wonderful epistle to the Ephesians, Eph. 2:19-22, 4:8-16; from the Book of Mormon, The Savior's own command in 3 Ne 25:3; and in the Lord's preface to the Doctrine and Covenants in Section 1:37-38, and in many other places.<br /><br />The question is not whether or not we can return to "pure Mormonism" or even "pure Christianity" but whether we accept the prophets and apostles of today as successors to the responsibilities of Moses, Abraham, Peter, John, Nephi, Alma, Moroni, and Joseph Smith. Christ helps us come unto the Father; the words of His chosen prophets and apostles coupled with our own covenant life directed by the Spirit bring us closer to Christ. <br /><br />I do not intend to return to your blog--I love the desire you and others express to focus us on Christ, but I tire of the argument that the prophets and apostles of today are attempting to lead us astray. I understand better Nephi's mourning over his brethren who refused to be led to the tree of life by the rod of iron, yes, but also refused first the invitation of their father, the prophet. <br /><br />I love my Father and worship Him in the name and through the grace of His beloved Son, my Savior. This is the foundation of my testimony and the rock of my life. I came to this Church much later in life, and that gained knowledge and testimony of the Father and Son changed me forever. I likewise learned through harsh comparison a life without prophetic guidance versus a life with it. I know Thomas Monson has been chosen by Jesus Christ, as He chose Peter of old, to lead the Church closer to the Father. I sustain President Monson, his counselors, the apostles, and other general authorities and church leaders because their teachings fill me with power, love for God, and a desire to come closer to Him. I sustain them because I know through their guidance I can love and serve Him better.<br /><br />Good luck in all your future endeavors. May the Spirit confirm to you what it has so often and in so many ways confirmed to me—pure Mormonism is not just to follow Christ but to choose to be led by Him through the methods He chooses and to the places He desires.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27886345193190412362014-09-26T18:23:40.619-07:002014-09-26T18:23:40.619-07:00Anonymous asks a pertinent question: "Why bel...Anonymous asks a pertinent question: "Why belong to a living church with modern prophets and apostles who speak to our contemporary circumstances if you do not intend to obey them?" <br /><br />But has the Lord commanded us to obey modern prophets, or are we to obey Him? And if Him, why do the Modern prophets never provide revelations that would supersede His old commandments?<br /><br />I can find nowhere in scripture where we are commanded to obey the prophets. We are taught to "heed their words" which means "to give careful consideration."<br /><br />But are we to heed their words when they speak their own opinions, or are we to heed their words when they are speaking in God's name and with his voice? <br /><br />I maintain it is not enough for a living prophet to provide us with his opinion. His job is to provide us with God's opinion, and to do so in a way that makes it clear he is speaking the words the Lord has put into his mouth (Deuteronomy 18:18) according to the pattern given us through Joseph Smith.<br /><br />Many of the concerns this commenter has were directly addressed in a subsequent post, "Follow the Prophet: True or False" including this challenge from another reader: <br /><br />"You are taking scripture and mixing it with the philosophies of men. You are looking at section 89 and YOU are deciding what it means. We have a living prophet on the earth today. What do you think he would say if you asked him whether or not you are living the Word of Wisdom by drinking beer?"<br /><br />My answer to that question can be found here:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2009/10/follow-prophet-true-or-false.html<br /><br />As for the quote provided from Jeffrey Holland, I believe an adequate response to that conference talk can be found in the guest post by Cate, "Uncomfortable God" found here:<br /><br />http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2014/06/uncomfortable-god.html<br /><br />Welcome to the pure doctrines of Christ, my friend. I hope you find much here that will edify you. If you find something written on this blog contrary to the word of God or doctrinally incorrect, I hope you will point it out so that corrections can be made. <br /><br />Differences of opinion are also welcome, but I don't feel that opinions of men offered absent revelation trump the revealed word that has previously been been given to us from the mouth of God.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-5672669667612243502014-09-26T14:06:25.634-07:002014-09-26T14:06:25.634-07:00While this comment comes very late to the thread, ...While this comment comes very late to the thread, I can't help but be puzzled. With this and other articles of a similar nature which try and find justification for present actions in the words of past prophets and apostles, I always ask myself, "Why belong to a living church with modern prophets and apostles who speak to our contemporary circumstances if you do not intend to obey them?" As one example (from many) of a modern commandment against alcohol, see Gordon B. Hinckley, "Be Ye Clean," General Conference, May 1996. Regardless of whether or not beer is included in "mild drinks" (a claim which I find unsupported in Bro. Waterman's article) the issue at hand is not whether or not something listed or not listed in the Word of Wisdom is healthy; the Word of Wisdom is divine "principle with a promise"--the issue is spiritual well-being, not merely physical (see D&C 29:34-35). <br /><br />It's further troubling to see such a reliance on outdated historical analysis when more current analysis is available. If we really desire to know our history as members of this church and what weight that history bears on our current understanding of doctrines and principles, ought we not to be more diligent and honest in our study? And shouldn't our study into history focus on that which is most recent, and leave in the past arguments that have been settled or dismissed. For an academic and current analysis of the history of the word of wisdom, see Paul Y. Hoskisson, "The Word of Wisdom in Its First Decade," The Journal of Mormon History 38, no 1, 131-200. <br /><br />While I agree with the premise that all of us are imperfect to differing degrees and thus cannot take up the gavel against any of our peers, I wholeheartedly disagree with the current trend of swallowing and parroting back old, false, and misleading interpretations of past revelations to justify modern disobedience. Laziness makes us turn to the internet, find someone who sounds semi-well-spoken and has written something germane to the topic, and follow them as authority. "Pure Mormonism", instead, turns us to those authorized to declare doctrine, principle, and yes, behavior and, if greater context is desired, those who honestly, effectively, and skillfully research the history of the church. <br /><br />If you desire a church that is less invasive, that lacks modern revelation which demands from us sacrifice, humility, repentance, and progression, you are looking at the wrong church. Said Elder Holland in this last (April 2014) General Conference, "Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds. Talk about man creating God in his own image! … It is obvious that the bumper sticker question ‘What would Jesus do?’ will not always bring a popular response."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com