tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post4369793154858927854..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Unchained SalaryAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-91664275862050857732018-06-29T14:19:14.215-07:002018-06-29T14:19:14.215-07:00Good Stuff
Sports Medicine SalaryGood Stuff<br /><br /><a href="https://khohealth.com/sports-medicine-salary/" rel="nofollow">Sports Medicine Salary</a>Kho Healthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05492318384336150293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-53465107620681220882018-01-25T20:18:40.562-08:002018-01-25T20:18:40.562-08:00I enjoyed your post and it has made me think, if t...I enjoyed your post and it has made me think, if they are required to give everything up as quoted of other prophets of lore,then I dont think it mean to allow them to have something? BUT as but I mean not something akin to a salary most people never earn? Yes they should be humble and presentable to the world and other dignities they meet in our name [church] to further the work they are instructed to do. <br /><br />I also understand them using the local leaders as THE MAIN example of NOT earning a wages [ sneaky ] but in all honesty I could care less what they wore or where they ate or went as long as they are representing Christ according to D+C Revelations.mormons sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14717928160313285185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-17996232482570487192017-03-05T19:01:56.680-08:002017-03-05T19:01:56.680-08:00You make an excellent point, Colt. If the Twelve f...You make an excellent point, Colt. If the Twelve followed the commandments they were given and learned to rely on the members for their direct support, the Twelve would live in constant gratitude toward the members, rather than thinking of themselves as "leaders" with some kind of "charge" or responsibility over the members (which they were never given). <br /><br />The saints, in turn, would have a proper appreciation for these men as true servants, admiring them for the sacrifices they have chosen to make in the cause of Christ. The shameful idolatry that is so rampant in the church today would disappear, as would the idea that the Twelve are the leaders over the Church, which they were NEVER called to be.<br /><br />Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-53944340957745942702017-03-05T15:30:41.425-08:002017-03-05T15:30:41.425-08:00Rock, you posed the question in the post that you ...Rock, you posed the question in the post that you don't know why the Lord required or commanded that they take no purse or scrip and rely on the goodness of strangers or the church, (the members). My explanation or guess in my TBM days would be that they wouldn't be so far removed, as they are now, from the general membership. Members talk so much of the brethren as if they are these untouchable sentient beings. Imagine if they followed the course that had been laid out for them, where they are essential beggars for food. I strongly believe that the church members wouldn't be less idolatrous of them and would gain a charitable spirit towards them by feeding, clothing and putting a roof over their heads. In a sense a microcosm of what Jesus taught.<br /><br />Perhaps that's why leaders now are so cautious about teaching Christ and his teachings in Church, because Jesus always railed against the priestcraft of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Going without purse or scrip will certainly cause temporal anxiety, but it replaces it with a deep meaningful gratitude for the members rather than elitism. As far as relying on the charity of strangers it would be less about being their friends for the sake of converting them and it would cause a greater empathy to them as well.<br /> Colt H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13096177768238594680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4066337458408782462017-02-26T10:29:26.742-08:002017-02-26T10:29:26.742-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.dxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02337714685336377182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-35590707998250988182017-02-13T10:15:26.474-08:002017-02-13T10:15:26.474-08:00And no one even answered Ryan's comment way up...And no one even answered Ryan's comment way up above about them living the law of consecration? As far as I understand, apostles and prophets give everything to the church when they are called, essentially living the law of consecration.<br /><br />It is important to remember that the apostles and the prophets were not poor men before becoming general authorities. I'm pretty sure Pres. Nelson could be sitting on a fine retirement from all his work in the medical field, much larger than the stipend he gets from the church. Or how about Elder Oaks from his law career. Or Elder Bednar. Or Pres. Eyering. Or any of them. I'm pretty sure if money was the motivation they would have given up long ago trying to travel and care for a church when they are in their 80's and 90's.<br /><br />The other piece to take into consideration here is that all things belong to the Lord and we are just stewards. If the Lord sees fit to ask me for a part of my stewardship to support those who are doing His work, I have no qualms about giving back what wasn't mine in the first place.<br /><br />In the end this all comes down to a question of testimony. If you have a testimony of God, His Son Jesus Christ, His Prophet Joseph Smith, the Restoration, and the prophet and church today, <b>then you trust that the church is in the hands of the Lord and He is in charge of His kingdom and prophets.</b> I have such a testimony.<br /><br />Are the prophets perfect? No. Are they men of God that I can trust? Yes.<br /><a href="https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-pet/1.19?lang=eng#18" rel="nofollow">Here's what the Peter had to say</a> about the prophets:<br />"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:"<br /><br /><a href="https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-pet/2.10,11,12?lang=eng#9" rel="nofollow">Here's what that same Peter warned about false teachers</a> that led many from the church in his day, eventually causing the Apostasy:<br />"Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.<br /> Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.<br /> But these. . . speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"<br /><br />Should we be speaking evil of the dignitaries of the church? Considering that Peter points to that as a sign of a false teacher/apostate, I think not. Do I advocate following blindy? Never. Gain your own testimony of the truth and the propehts and be led by the Spirit, not "trusting in the arm of flesh", and knowing that "whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants it is the same."Faith, Family, Freedomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14065933776385488863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-89508608999966872042017-02-12T09:17:55.035-08:002017-02-12T09:17:55.035-08:00This year I was just told my raise will be 2% - th...This year I was just told my raise will be 2% - the standard cost of living raise for all employees at the company I work for. If we take $89,000 from the paycheck 17 years ago and apply an annual raise of around 2% that gets us to the $116,00 in the letter for 2013, with a 3% raise that year we're at the $120,000 for 2014. Adding that to the last couple years and our beloved General Authorities should be clearing over $130,000 this year. <br /><br />I'm in the wrong business. PallasAthenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16336808575226020762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32793556320831960422017-02-11T10:48:59.932-08:002017-02-11T10:48:59.932-08:00MrHR won't do any good. They've had this p...MrHR won't do any good. They've had this partition available for years and it's ignored. The Church is in complete apostasy and the won't change. God will have to intervene to correct the problem. The leaders are all going to hell for their rebellion against God. Iterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281119992916618849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65191618755405504202017-02-11T09:27:00.245-08:002017-02-11T09:27:00.245-08:00Good idea, this petition to open the books. I just...Good idea, this petition to open the books. I just signed it; we should all be anxiously engaged in the good cause, should'nt we.<br />Since this forum discussion seems to have come to an end, how about some music:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ryhN5kNFzcR. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-40569592261547545762017-02-09T17:28:47.632-08:002017-02-09T17:28:47.632-08:00Thanks!!Thanks!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15987534668667652384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-45024798620539657062017-02-09T13:26:43.163-08:002017-02-09T13:26:43.163-08:00Mark Moe,
you asked "where is the petition to...Mark Moe,<br />you asked "where is the petition to open the books?"<br /><br />Here it is:<br /><br />www.bycommonconsent.org<br /><br /><br />Ron Madsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05213382233269808474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-67416240368659625242017-02-02T09:45:13.323-08:002017-02-02T09:45:13.323-08:00It seems Mission Presidents (like all LDS paid min...It seems Mission Presidents (like all LDS paid ministry) live pretty high on the hog on the Church's dime, when probably lots of qualified couples who go on missions on their own dime would fill those slots for free. <br /><br />Hopefully people will think twice now and pay their own heating bill instead of paying for a Mission President's maid service, new car, kid's college and Christmas. <br /><br />True prophets & disciples of Christ give money 'to' the poor, they never ask or expect the poor to give money to them.<br /><br />Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-78638980242583213322017-02-01T17:47:50.584-08:002017-02-01T17:47:50.584-08:00So ...
Where is the petition to open the books?
...So ...<br /><br />Where is the petition to open the books?<br /><br />We aren't gonna have to wait for cable tv show like on Scientology are we?<br /><br />Mission Presidents seem to do great by their non-income, income.<br /> <br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15987534668667652384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-75676881081256719412017-01-30T19:54:53.815-08:002017-01-30T19:54:53.815-08:00This sums it up pretty well in my mind:
Ezekiel ...This sums it up pretty well in my mind:<br /><br /> Ezekiel 34:<br />1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,<br />2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?<br />3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.<br />4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.<br />5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.<br />6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.<br />7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;<br />8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;<br />9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;<br />10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.<br /><br /> Not only do the shepherds get fat from the flock, for supposedly feeding the flock, but they aren't even preaching that knowledge which saves. The membership of the LDS church is paying for false drivel, and they "receive it very well." For even if there are nine truths out of 10 taught it is not truth. <br /><br />As one other mentioned, this post saddens me as well, realizing that so many have been deceived, myself included. I do not hold a grudge however and I'm happy to move on from where I am now but as many have mentioned the Scriptures bear it out. <br /><br />Thanks for an excellent post, as usual, Rock.Phillip Reddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02258849465797413296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84819853551857362722017-01-28T13:10:03.285-08:002017-01-28T13:10:03.285-08:00Rock, a very good point indeed! True investors ar...Rock, a very good point indeed! True investors are given full disclosure. They do not see us as their equals, otherwise they would have no problem with disclosure. Sigh Pepper Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310019378286777922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90584067396537078702017-01-28T12:27:56.555-08:002017-01-28T12:27:56.555-08:00Pepper, because of the diabolical type of corporat...Pepper, because of the diabolical type of corporation the Church is today, members are not actually shareholders. <br /><br />In the original church as organized by Joseph Smith, members were legally "holders of Interest." That is, all money and property belonging to the church was held in common by the members, who had a say in the disbursement of the money or property.<br /><br />But when Heber J. Grant converted the church to a corporation, that specific type of corporation was a Corporation Sole, patterned after the Church of Rome where all of the church's property was owned and controlled by one man, the Catholic Pope.<br /><br />Thus, the Corporation of the Pesident is just that: a corporation where every single dollar and piece of property is owned outright by the president alone. This is a major evidence that the Church is NOT the church of Jesus Christ, and neither is it the Church of the Latter-day Saints. It legally belongs to the president alone. You are not consulted, and neither is Jesus Christ. The Church has changed hands, and done so without any revelation from God or vote from the members authorizing the change.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-53212145244020387422017-01-28T11:40:18.780-08:002017-01-28T11:40:18.780-08:00dwills - good thoughts. I like Gileadi's trans...dwills - good thoughts. I like Gileadi's translation a little bit better. Here it is for comparison. <br /><br />20. For tyrants shall come to nought and scorners cease; all who persist in wickedness shall be cut off—<br />21. those who at a word adjudge a man to be guilty, who ensnare the defender at court, who for nothing turn away him who is in the right. <br />iterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14836783863542965577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-54700801035410097702017-01-27T10:53:24.060-08:002017-01-27T10:53:24.060-08:00Isaiah 29:20-21 came to mind regarding the apparen...Isaiah 29:20-21 came to mind regarding the apparent feud between Rock and Robin Hood:<br /><br /> 20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:<br /><br /> 21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.<br /><br />I don't think Robin Hood is a merry man... :)dwillshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861707317641351227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59865849970517840682017-01-27T09:36:51.614-08:002017-01-27T09:36:51.614-08:00Amen! Not only that, but if a member has a questio...Amen! Not only that, but if a member has a question regarding doctrine, we are to go to Bishop, then SP and then appeal to the AA who will then first answer it and if that does not resolve, they take that to the FP and Q12. They ARE the mediator between us and the FP. They do not act on their own accord in these matters. <br /><br />A letter has been read in church several times on this issue. The FP has made sure we all know the AA are indeed that Authorities! <br /><br />Pepper Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310019378286777922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-47646942742228920972017-01-27T09:16:36.050-08:002017-01-27T09:16:36.050-08:00I always love how people make comments and then sa...I always love how people make comments and then say " I am not going to debate with you" really? Are you that weak minded and in the scriptures that you are unable to defend your statements?<br /><br /><br />Do you know what a soothsayer is? <br /><br />Additionally, if you loved Elder Ruthland so much, why don't YOU specially put in your money to his personal account to do that <br /><br />In fact, that is how it should be. If the leaders want an income, they can have it donated in a tithing slip category that says "living allowances" that money could then be dispersed among them WITH oversite and full disclosure. <br /><br />Why should they be able to take from church funds without any oversite or accountability to the members? <br /><br />Since the church is a corp, we are the investors! A financial statement should be provided of all expenses and pay outs. <br /><br />Pepper Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310019378286777922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66432286996025672852017-01-27T09:01:25.011-08:002017-01-27T09:01:25.011-08:00My husband and I joined a fellowship group that be...My husband and I joined a fellowship group that believes the same as we do. We meet every Sunday, partake of the sacrament, discuss the scriptures and then eat together We love it<br /><br /><br />There are restoration churches as well. This church is NOT nor has it ever been JS church that he established. This is the false church BY established. It is like every other church. So, knowing that, why not find a fellowship or a restoration church that lives by the tenets JS established? You can join the FB group "the remnant" awakening and find a fellowship near you <br /><br />I have been where you are just a few months ago. Pepper Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310019378286777922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26082866092215496502017-01-27T08:53:23.221-08:002017-01-27T08:53:23.221-08:00You want an apology from Rock but you don't wa...You want an apology from Rock but you don't want one from the GA that are being paid? Seems a little twisted Pepper Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01310019378286777922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87828581686335959782017-01-27T03:52:25.809-08:002017-01-27T03:52:25.809-08:00@Rock
There you go again Rock.
I don't want yo...@Rock<br />There you go again Rock.<br />I don't want you to admit that "no one at headquarters instructed my local Area Authority to initiate" your discipline. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? You, and especially Log, do this all the time. Not just to me I might add.<br /><br />I care nothing for who initiated what and why, in the context of this debate.<br />All I ever wanted was for you to acknowledge that you were mistaken when you insisted that an Area Seventy is a General Authority.<br />Why is that so difficult?<br />Why have we had all this mallarky? All this twisting and turning and great debates about the office and responsibility of a Seventy, and what Brigham Young did and on an on....<br />All of which was interesting, but which served as a diversion tactic from the claim I challenged you about. And through all of it you refused to acknowledge your error even though you knew you were in error.<br />This was, and is, my complaint.<br /><br />Prior to this incident I tended to read your essays without prejudice. I believed you were what you said you were. I believed you were, as you consistently claim, only interested in the truth. <br />Because of your behaviour on the occasion in question, when it was clear to me that you were determined to save face rather than acknowledge truth, I abandoned my previous position regarding your motives.<br /><br />The reason this has rumbled on ever since is because I have spotted a number of occasions where you have contradicted yourself, or certainly proffered an implied contradiction, in this matter.<br /><br />All you ever had to do was acknowledge you were mistaken. Robin Hoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07821352042750367654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-24132286018743075182017-01-27T02:24:58.071-08:002017-01-27T02:24:58.071-08:00This Seventy dialogue is actually irrelevant. In t...This Seventy dialogue is actually irrelevant. In the early church the Seventies were a general church office, and a Seventy was even considered to be an Apostle. Brigham Young and others, like P.P. Pratt are very clear on that. This notion was eventually lost and during the reign of Heber J. Grant c.s. it was degraded to a Stake calling; in 1986 the office of the Seventy was finally discontinued by the church. What we now have are High Priests that are called Seventy. But a High Priest of course is not a general church office. Hence this socalled Seventy cannot be a General Authority.<br />The way the Priesthood has been dealt with and mixed up over the years proves how much this church has become out of order.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-60215016218922092972017-01-26T20:46:27.283-08:002017-01-26T20:46:27.283-08:00iterry, I don't recall a lot of the details. T...iterry, I don't recall a lot of the details. There is not much publicly known, as I understand Gileadi was very sensitive about the whole affair. Gileadi never liked being identified as part of the September Six, because he felt he was loyal to the Church; unlike the others he did not speak out publicly about the injustice. He was a bona fide Hebrew scholar, teaching people to have a deeper appreciation for the Book of Mormon. But the details of his reinstatement are not known to me personally. I'll bet someone online has told the story if you care to google it. Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.com