tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post359015499927092173..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: Any Opposed, Please Sit Down and Shut UpAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger236125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-23814626212231601992015-05-31T20:30:09.590-07:002015-05-31T20:30:09.590-07:00To those who worried that the church knew in advan...To those who worried that the church knew in advance about the opposing votes, rest assured that they only knew this because at least one member of the Any Opposed? group told the church (not sure whether he called PR department or Security; presumably the former) that he was planning to express his opposing vote. This person said so himself in a podcast, on Mormon Expositor if I remember correctly.<br /><br />I would love to see a thousand people rise and shout "Opposed!) next time, but even a few hundred, or a few dozen, would have some impact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-14738122222277662792015-05-08T02:55:22.892-07:002015-05-08T02:55:22.892-07:00I always look like this !! folding wagon cartI always look like this !!<a href="http://www.thewagonstore.com" rel="nofollow"> folding wagon cart</a> The Wagon Storehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13983718600653901384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-44220095899793035382015-05-01T13:58:34.077-07:002015-05-01T13:58:34.077-07:00If they don't want an outburst maybe we could ...If they don't want an outburst maybe we could do the sustaining electronically over the Internet anonymously. With the results published live on the screen. After each talk we could rate the talk. From one to five. Does this talk make him seem more like a prophet or less like a prophet. In case you want to know Dalin H Oakes quoting catholic priests and being irritated by people who don't think you get any more inspiration than catholic priests makes you score lower.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02624853971129396721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-26204659246465135772015-04-27T15:49:47.996-07:002015-04-27T15:49:47.996-07:00I agree Calleen! Great points!I agree Calleen! Great points!BKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-54038392416610505312015-04-27T12:55:21.622-07:002015-04-27T12:55:21.622-07:00I don't know about you guys, but I remember th...I don't know about you guys, but I remember that Jesus talking to Piolet said that His kingdom was not of this world. That means the LDS Church is not His kingdom, because it is in this world and not like the City of Enoch, and these money mongers are, well, lovers of money more than God.<br /><br />So when they break their own rules, and persecute anyone that doesn't agree with them, then I don't see what the big shock is.<br /><br />I recently read an article talking about the last days where the quote that there would be Christ's show-up everywhere and that even the very elect could be deceived, it occurred to me that we are now living in those days, and the LDS Church is one of those in the wilderness that is crying lo here and lo there.<br /><br />We are not here to find a prophet, but when one does show up, we are not here to dote on him, but to recognize the truth that was spoken and praise God for bringing to our attention. We are here to find the truth and rely on God to show us the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-12608871712567656052015-04-27T12:50:36.463-07:002015-04-27T12:50:36.463-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-78308884930164102742015-04-24T23:06:59.122-07:002015-04-24T23:06:59.122-07:00Log said "The 'profanity filter' rend...Log said "The 'profanity filter' rendered it impossible to break that rule. One man's 'trolling' might be the Lord's call to repentance. Who knows, since it is not defined except by way of reading minds and hearts - and I ain't seen the functioning mind-reader yet."<br /><br />But you'd know if you were the instrument being used to call repentance, wouldn't you?Shoenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65971246383881979842015-04-20T11:38:45.512-07:002015-04-20T11:38:45.512-07:00At the beginning of my previous statement, I said ...At the beginning of my previous statement, I said "I believe the church is referring..." I meant to say, "The Lord" not "the church".<br /><br />It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend. I said how I'm doing what is taught in my church and expressed that I'm doing what the Lord says (or something like that.) She answered, referring to the leaders, "they're not The Lord!". I was a little upset at the time, but I'm wondering now whether some things taught at church really come from the Lord. I'm convinced some things did not originate with Him, but tradition means that they have been accepted as such.Steak Presedenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145688976336741401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-56071602680091976072015-04-20T11:34:20.111-07:002015-04-20T11:34:20.111-07:00I believe the reason why the church is referring t...I believe the reason why the church is referring to the LDS church is because people may have been thinking they have been repenting and coming unto Christ, they had missed, or were unable to live by, certain principles which were restored in the restoration. Things like repentance is an actual turning away from sin and trying to follow Jesus Christ and to come unto Christ, one must be baptized and the one performing the baptism, must hold the authority of the priesthood.<br /><br />Having the whole truth and having and living it are two separate things. One might be better at following the amount of light they have, which is incomplete, better than one who has all the light.<br /><br />Back to sustaining. The raising of the right hand in meetings today, doesn't mean the same thing it used to. I would no longer be putting in my vote to elect someone to an office in the church. Today, I would just be showing my support for someone in that office.<br /><br />Conversely, when I raise my hand to oppose, it means I do not believe this individual is right to hold office and if it is someone really important like an apostle, I am basically saying I am going against God who appointed him and how dare I make a claim that he is unworthy to hold that office!? He's an apostle; an almost perfect man who can't, or is extremely unlikely, to be unworthy. Can you imagine an apostle being unworthy? It is unthinkable!<br /><br />What it used to mean to oppose was I don't believe he should hold office. He could still hold authority and keys (in the case of an apostle). Voting used to mean voting. People used to be appointed by the voice of the people. How often, or for how long, this happened I don't know. The very next President of the Church explained how it works, so I don't think many saw voting for what it really should be.Steak Presedenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145688976336741401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52512399745633288992015-04-20T09:04:36.545-07:002015-04-20T09:04:36.545-07:00I believe the LDS Church & it's break offs...I believe the LDS Church & it's break offs are & have always been, far more 'apostate' from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, then most all other 'far older' Christian Churches. <br /><br />For most other Christian Churches at least still mostly preach Christ's teachings straight from the New Test, even if they may not always follow them. <br /><br />While the LDS Church focuses on & preaches the writings & commandments of men & prophets, which are usually contrary to Christ's teachings. bBKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-76269847873484432132015-04-20T01:58:23.646-07:002015-04-20T01:58:23.646-07:00I kinda liked "flying by the seat of their pa...I kinda liked "flying by the seat of their pants" lolnot a robot, just play one on tvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-28524503912230151472015-04-19T21:31:11.754-07:002015-04-19T21:31:11.754-07:00Rock,
I’m writing in regards to your comments abo...Rock,<br /><br />I’m writing in regards to your comments about whether the church and/or the “leadership” of the church are in apostasy or not (see April 16, 2015 at 9:20 AM and 9:25 AM).<br />This is a question I have been struggling with in trying to answer for myself. <br /><br />I misunderstood the definition of apostasy by incorrectly thinking it included the unintentional falling away from the truth of Christ and his gospel, rather than just the willful turning of one’s back on Christ and his gospel. <br /><br />I also misunderstood the definition of “the church”. I now have ingrained in my mind, thank you to you, the correct definition of the church as defined by the Lord in D&C 10:67-68. It appears to me that this definition includes all people regardless of the religious denomination with which they identify themselves.<br /><br />So now the scope of the question (whether the church and/or the “leadership” of the church are in apostasy) is much larger, because “the church” is much more than the LDS/Mormon faith. Are the members and/or leaders of the other religious denominations, for example the Roman Catholic Church, in apostasy? Like the leaders in the LDS/Mormon church, they sometimes make errors; they misspeak, misrepresent their powers and abilities, change doctrine and invent new doctrines, etc. They've just had more time to do it. I don’t know the full history of Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Church and the Protestant churches, but it appears to me that they (those alive and practicing their religion today) have not turned their backs on Christ and his gospel. If they (the leaders in the other “churches”) are in apostasy and the LDS/Mormon church leaders are not, what are the factors that make the difference? <br /><br />I’m going through a paradigm shift in my understanding of apostasy. It seems that the “leadership” of the LDS/Mormon church and the members, could go further and further off course from the true gospel of Christ with more and more false doctrines being taught, perhaps for hundreds of years (or thousands of years like other Christian churches), and never be considered in apostasy as long as they have not turned their back on Christ. What is the correct word to use if apostasy is the not the word to describe “a church” in this condition?Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15832701313385142254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-35088646787349143612015-04-19T17:23:56.618-07:002015-04-19T17:23:56.618-07:00Alternatively, in the absence of their demonstrati...Alternatively, in the absence of their demonstration, does it not become us to pray and find out from God whether they be what they say each other is?<br /><br />If knowing really matters, that is, instead of making a statement and sticking it to the man.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-37643592264321244972015-04-19T17:08:32.896-07:002015-04-19T17:08:32.896-07:00But what will happen is the Church will excommunic...But what will happen is the Church will excommunicate such.<br /><br />Just saying. Is whether an apostle performs miracles live on TV or says "Thus Saith The Lord" or "Hey, yo, I'm a prophet!" or "I've Seen Jaysus!" worth getting ex'd over?Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2779100042815041252015-04-19T13:22:13.502-07:002015-04-19T13:22:13.502-07:00Thanks for that info, Andrew. It's important ...Thanks for that info, Andrew. It's important to remember though, that although certain people suggested the idea, others, such as Matthew Bennett, did not share their reasons.<br /><br />I hope to see more "no" votes in the future, by members with no other axe to grind other than a reluctance to sustain men as "prophets, seers, and revelators" who consistently fail to demonstrate those gifts.Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-41286284497329483472015-04-19T08:33:29.671-07:002015-04-19T08:33:29.671-07:00Rock, I thought I posted this a couple of days ag...Rock, I thought I posted this a couple of days ago, but the post isn't there...<br /><br />The Infants of Thrones guys are behind the Any Opposed "movement." They have a podcast describing what they did. You all might find it interesting.Andrew Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-71333091452781823062015-04-18T20:59:54.125-07:002015-04-18T20:59:54.125-07:00Rock,
Just read you latest response, thanks much,...Rock,<br /><br />Just read you latest response, thanks much, this all makes sense. I agree as well that many errors can be made by leadership, often due to tradition/etc, but this is different than outright "apostasy", as defined as willful rebelling against God/knowingly trying to lead people astray/etc.<br /><br />Also I agree with your mention that it isn't a "one-size-fits-all" gospel, that indeed what is right for one person could be not right for another, as what is "right" or "correct" is dependent upon the individual circumstances/person/point in their progression/etc.<br /><br />Thanks for the insights!JBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-1140707513375971852015-04-18T09:49:00.477-07:002015-04-18T09:49:00.477-07:00Rock, the guys over at Infants on Thrones are taki...Rock, the guys over at Infants on Thrones are taking credit for the Any Opposed effort. They recently did a podcast describing their effort.<br /><br />I'm somewhat disheartened that they spearheaded the effort. I guess I hoped it was more spontaneous and done by people more interested in pure Mormonism (as opposed to the Infants' perspective). Anyway, you might find the podcast interesting.Andrew Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-16675813168994127072015-04-18T03:22:13.805-07:002015-04-18T03:22:13.805-07:00Recently I raved about Curt Bench's "Para...Recently I raved about Curt Bench's "Parallel Doctrine and Covenants" as the most reliable version of the D&C, and the only volume I go to anymore to reference Joseph Smith's revelations.<br /><br />I've just been informed that the book is now on sale for HALF PRICE while they last. That's an incredible bargain because the original price, though worth every penny, was a pretty hefty fifty bucks. If you live on the Wasatch Front, you can buy a copy at Benchmark Books in Salt lake City, or order directly from the publisher, Signature Books.<br /><br />I'd do it now. When they're gone, their gone.<br /><br />http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/the-parallel-doctrine-and-covenants-the-1832-1833-1833-and-1835-editions-of-joseph-smiths-revelations/Alan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34636288313542636052015-04-17T23:15:27.803-07:002015-04-17T23:15:27.803-07:00Welp, drop me a line sometime. I'm not sure w...Welp, drop me a line sometime. I'm not sure where Tim's boundaries are, or even if he has any. However, I would recommend not reviling.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4770441392766158492015-04-17T22:30:51.370-07:002015-04-17T22:30:51.370-07:00No, I am not banned at Tim's blog
FTNo, I am not banned at Tim's blog<br /><br />FTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-68401375046223404612015-04-17T22:09:15.516-07:002015-04-17T22:09:15.516-07:00Well, are you banned at Tim's blog?
www.latte...Well, are you banned at Tim's blog?<br /><br />www.latterdaycommentary.com<br /><br />I read, post, and sometimes comment there.Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-52255741601723370692015-04-17T22:06:23.094-07:002015-04-17T22:06:23.094-07:00I don't wish to say here, Log.
foxtrot tangoI don't wish to say here, Log.<br /><br />foxtrot tangoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-16899047548386147872015-04-17T21:58:56.951-07:002015-04-17T21:58:56.951-07:00What are your beliefs?What are your beliefs?Jared Liveseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10309044282039536254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-83721913713479102452015-04-17T21:48:31.237-07:002015-04-17T21:48:31.237-07:00Log,
I'm on borrowed time here. It is only a ...Log,<br /><br />I'm on borrowed time here. It is only a matter of time before all my posts are deleted. Why? I don't know, because it seems as if you and I are having a civil conversation. I would love to share my views with you, because it is not about the "team" with me at all. My beliefs are similar to when Eve sinned and Adam was forced to follow her in sin to maintain the integrity of God's plan.<br /><br />foxtrot tangoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com