tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post3079889367670833257..comments2024-03-13T12:52:19.391-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: The Church Ain't The Kingdom, Part FourAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger172125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-18897703253065229402018-10-02T20:17:48.055-07:002018-10-02T20:17:48.055-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-63443756940833928662018-10-02T20:16:52.192-07:002018-10-02T20:16:52.192-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-66479536824557800922018-09-29T22:00:09.270-07:002018-09-29T22:00:09.270-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-70024613757277259752018-09-28T07:29:13.998-07:002018-09-28T07:29:13.998-07:00We are praying for you and your dear wife. May Fat...We are praying for you and your dear wife. May Father's blessings be upon you both.jjkramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17509134684980539113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-557165724608212682018-09-26T00:46:21.279-07:002018-09-26T00:46:21.279-07:00I was afraid something like that had happened; ver...I was afraid something like that had happened; very sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayer are with you. This morning I reraid this post and noticed the high quality of it. It is indeed worth reading it again. Thanks for your work and dedication, to both of you.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34738101916820758372018-09-25T15:10:21.048-07:002018-09-25T15:10:21.048-07:00I'm sorry to hear about Connie, and the trial ...I'm sorry to hear about Connie, and the trial you're both going through right now.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12881708997003390252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38284749810468373622018-09-24T20:25:33.051-07:002018-09-24T20:25:33.051-07:00Hi guys,
Sorry I've been silent so long. I ke...Hi guys, <br />Sorry I've been silent so long. I keep thinking I should at least write a post explaining why I'm on a forced hiatus.<br /><br />The simple fact is, I'm exhausted. Too exhausted to write and too exhausted to read. Connie fractured both knees, and it's taken it's toll on me as much as her, in the area of lost sleep. I'm simply not mentally fit to write anything worthwhile at the moment. But when I feel up to it, I'll post a longer explanation, because I've been getting a lot of inquries through email and such. Right now I'm drained. It may take another month or two before I get some energy back.<br /><br />Thanks for your concern, though. It means a lot that I'm missed.<br /><br />Keep praying for Connie's healing!<br /><br />RockAlan Rock Watermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43760315787384782152018-09-24T18:04:30.953-07:002018-09-24T18:04:30.953-07:00Thank you. But does anyone know why brother log do...Thank you. But does anyone know why brother log doesn't post here anymore?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12881708997003390252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38015267962455869552018-09-24T11:22:26.703-07:002018-09-24T11:22:26.703-07:00Yeah, I’m missing Rock. I’m actually hoping he com...Yeah, I’m missing Rock. I’m actually hoping he comments on a book he recommended earlier this year: The Exoneration of Emma, Joseph and Hyrum. <br /><br />Rock, you there buddy?SBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10699554522289335818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-31672877646421559492018-09-22T04:05:37.813-07:002018-09-22T04:05:37.813-07:00Brother Rock is taking long to come up with a new ...Brother Rock is taking long to come up with a new post. I do hope he is doing well.R. Metzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15875261161185193692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-78809555640358211852018-09-20T18:04:22.955-07:002018-09-20T18:04:22.955-07:00"look" came from auto fill somehow. What..."look" came from auto fill somehow. What I meant to ask was why doesn't log post comments here anymore 7Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12881708997003390252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4076141774520479972018-09-20T17:47:14.424-07:002018-09-20T17:47:14.424-07:00Hi,
Why doesn't look log post comments here a...Hi,<br /><br />Why doesn't look log post comments here anymore?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12881708997003390252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-12063837771730376092018-09-17T20:50:18.425-07:002018-09-17T20:50:18.425-07:00The beauty of Jesus' message is that we all ge...The beauty of Jesus' message is that we all get to believe as we wish. That being said, a formalized message that excludes others is in clear violation of that message. Thus, all organized religion is false and that includes the LDS with their false prophet, as well as Calvary, etc. So your position of worshiping natural law as God is commendable. The question that you should consider; however, is: Are there some things about God that fall outside natural law? For instance, a cat does not love a dog unconditionally proving that they are fulfilling natural law by not loving unconditionally. Yet, you believe that God loves unconditionally and this is not natural. Thus, if God loves unconditionally then he is not following natural law as defined by a cat eating a mouse. That is, a cat does not love a mouse unconditionally but uses the mouse as food for survival; there is no love involved in their relationship. Thus, if God loves unconditionally then he is doing this outside natural law. Thus, God is not bound to natural law but goes beyond natural law's limitations.<br /><br />In this instance I might be willing to consider that God has unconditional love; that is, if unconditional love is not a natural law but free to excel beyond that limitation. I hope you can see that laws are limitations. If we were not bound to gravity then we would be free to move beyond this earth. So lets say that there is only gravity then we are limited. However, if we say that we are beyond that law then we are free from it. God is free from that law and not because he manipulates the natural forces but because he has authority over that law by virtue of being God.<br /><br />Nevertheless, we are free to believe as we wish and that is freedom from law. That freedom does not come from the limitations of law but from God. Natural law would limit us to the box beliefs, yet we are free; a freedom from God to believe as we wish and not as we are told.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-2817241378053340892018-09-17T03:25:52.934-07:002018-09-17T03:25:52.934-07:00Mr. Finch,
How can we be subject to someone or s...Mr. Finch, <br /><br />How can we be subject to someone or something we don't even know exists for sure? Let alone what he would want of us? We can only figure out what seems right or wrong to us on this planet, for we have no way to know for sure what God thinks or wants, even if he does exist. <br /><br />And yes, I believe law, natural law is God, and any true God would follow those laws. I believe law comes 1st. Jesus also must obey natural law or he could not be what he claimed to be or anyone trustworthy to follow. It's the fact that Jesus taught and lived many natural laws and truths that give him credibility. <br /><br />If Jesus was law then we would not be able to tell what are true quotes of his and which are false in the NT, for we would have no standard or yardstick to judge by, not to mention that Jesus would be a God of confusion and chaos if he really said all the things the NT claims he did. <br /><br />I guess we just believe differently about God or believe in different kinds of Gods. For I follow or value natural law or what I believe is right far more than I follow the idea of a God, for no one even knows if he or one exists, so it's futile to try to learn much about God in this life, for no one really knows. <br /><br />The best we can do is create in our minds and hope for what we would consider to be the type of God we would want or believe in. But if a God does not follow what I believe is right then I wouldn't believe in him or that he is a just and good God, but more like the Adversary, who of course lies. <br /><br />It seems everyone believes in or imagines a different kind of God, or none at all, depending on how they want to live their lives and what they want to hope for after this life. <br /><br />But yes, God would have the free agency to lie, but if he did he would just cease to be a just, good or trustworthy God. <br /><br />I'm sorry that I don't have time to study out and explain specific examples of what I believe are true principles taught by Christ and which are false ones that he would not have said, except in the mention of Abraham by Christ. I don't believe Christ really said those verses or thought that Abraham was righteous and in heaven, etc. But I believe you will be able to see many contradictions yourself as you study the NT. <br /><br />And as far as the name of 'Christ' I don't think that matters, for again, a rose by any other name..... I think you know who and what I am talking about when I refer to Christ. Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-18053261916808395582018-09-11T20:49:52.545-07:002018-09-11T20:49:52.545-07:00Okay. Thank you DeeLyn.
Please be specific, I do ...Okay. Thank you DeeLyn.<br /><br />Please be specific, I do not know what words you attribute to Christ. Might I say that Christ is the word used for "the Savior of this world." The Jews thought the Christ was the Son of David; the Savior of the Jews. So I guess it depends what your interpretation of Christ. Lets go with your interpretation. Who is Christ and what does that word mean?<br /><br />I understand that you believe God is constrained by law. However, as I said, God is God because of his choices and he is not constrained by any laws. That is, he is free to live as he wishes and it just so happens that law is in harmony with God's choices. <br /><br />Its like what came first, the chicken or the egg? I understand that you believe God must conform to law. However, this would mean that God can not lie because he is constrained by law. Thus, God is restricted in his free agency.<br /><br />However, God has free agency and is free to choose. Therefore, God is free to lie if he chooses to do so. That is, God is not constrained by law but law is constrained by God.<br /><br />If you say that God is constrained by law then he is no longer free but constrained. If law constrained God then law would not he in harmony with God. How many ways can I explain this? <br /><br />God is not subject to law but law is subject to God. God is free to choose and law is not free to choose. That is, God establishes law and all law comes from God. He is not in second place to law.<br /><br />Therefore, at the bare bones, we are subject to God; not law. It is for that reason that Jesus walked on water; because all laws are subject to him. He can do anything he wishes to do; Jesus is not constrained by law. But if you believe God is constrained by law then law is God and you are bound to laws not God.<br /><br />Since I believe that Jesus is law then I am not constrained by law but by Jesus. Therefore, Jesus is higher than law and as such he is not constrained by law. Therefore, Jesus is God.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-47786595262590618552018-09-11T06:20:01.067-07:002018-09-11T06:20:01.067-07:00Mr. Finch,
Yes, we must pick and choose and disce...Mr. Finch,<br /><br />Yes, we must pick and choose and discern which of Christ's teachings are true and which are not. For many contradict each other and can't all be true or his real quotes. When you study the origin of the NT it's quite apparent that not all the words accredited to Christ are really his but the addition of authors, by error or agenda. <br /><br />I referred to the ideas that dogs have UL as a type of example, not that cognitively they have UL but just to see at how loyal, loving and forgiving dogs can be despite how they might be treated. <br /><br />A better example would be the love people feel from God during near death experiences. They understand real quickly that God loves them despite what they might have done, though that doesn't mean they go to heaven, for that would depend on one's behavior. <br /><br />Though I use the words unconditional love it's just the closest term I can think of to describe the type of love God has and asks us to have. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet. It's the concept, not the name we give it. <br /><br />I believe God couldn't lie or he would cease to be God, for to be God he would have to live by natural laws also, the same as us. Just because he is God doesn't mean he can do anything he wants. I don't believe God invented right and wrong but he just lives in harmony with truth and right so much that he can be a God. <br /><br />We have to 1st determine and reason out what is truth and right and then use that understanding to see which quotes of Christ's are truth and which are not, and were thus added by authors. For if Christ really said all that the NT claims he said, then he couldn't be perfect or what he claimed to be. So either not everything attributed to Christ was what he actually said or he is not who he says he was. Christ taught us to not have blind faith in anyone, including him. <br /><br />We have to 1st understand what is right ourselves before we can ever determine if Christ was righteous or perfect or who the NT says he was, or just another false prophet teaching part truth and part error like most all the rest of the prophets in the scriptures and in the Church.Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-64650152422502394942018-09-07T12:55:45.490-07:002018-09-07T12:55:45.490-07:00Where are you Rock? Where are you Rock? jjkramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17509134684980539113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-87909011559538353372018-09-06T21:04:43.360-07:002018-09-06T21:04:43.360-07:00Thank you DeeLyn, your response is brave and compa...Thank you DeeLyn, your response is brave and compassionate. I especially like how your answers are on the edge of the line but not quite crossing over. You must be an attorney (just a thought).<br /><br />UL is a Pentecostal buzzword. My sister used it years ago and I tried to reason with her about God and lies. Her position was that God can not lie, and my position was God can lie if he wants to. She would say no he can not, and I would say then he is not God.<br /><br />My point was, if God can do anything then God can lie. Her point was God can do anything but lie. Then my come back was, then God can not do everything; because, he can not lie. To which she would say God can do everything but lie.<br /><br />It was circular logic to which there was no end.<br /><br />In your argument you say we can use Christ's words so long as they fit our idea of truth. Thus, we individually get to pick and choose what we believe to be scripture according to our likes and dislikes. The logic is circular with no end.<br /><br />Let's see if we can find one point of logic to begin a reasonable discussion. How about, what is truth? Let's say truth is verifiable. Thus, things that are verifiable are true.<br /><br />That would be a good point of agreement between us. "I think therefore I am" (Descartes), and that is clearly true because it is verifiable. Also, 1 plus 1 equals 2, and that is clearly true and verifiable.<br /><br />It is not reasonable to use instinct as a mechanism for verifying UL. For instance, dogs follow the "leader of the pack" (man) because that is their genetic predisposition to do so (instinct). The same goes for parents, family, and etc.<br /><br />I admire your attempt however to show the proof. Yet, instinct is not a fair arbitrator to prove UL because it is biased to a predisposition of DNA.<br /><br />To prove UL you must look at a tree, or a pond of water. Something like that which does not have an instinct to show UL to something like a baby. Lets say God has UL; then prove it but not by DNA that is forced upon the individual.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-65575921257263234362018-09-03T07:26:06.521-07:002018-09-03T07:26:06.521-07:00Mr. Finch,
You are correct that these are just m...Mr. Finch, <br /><br />You are correct that these are just my beliefs, of what I believe prove true. Although truth and natural laws are things we know in our conscience, and things we all know deep down, they can't be proven to anyone, we have to prove them to ourselves, if we are willing to do so. <br /><br />Just like any of Christ's teachings, no one can prove they are true, only those who study and experiment with them and strive to live them and learn their effects, can come to understand how true or untrue they are. <br /><br />Natural laws are observable over time, they are cause and effect, but one has to make the effort to watch for and study these effects to see and understand them. But unless we live by these natural laws ourselves we may not be able to see them and their effects. For we can become blind to truth if we don't live it ourselves. But history can help show us the effects of natural laws like unconditional love (UL) and the outcomes of people, marriages or societies that live by them or not. <br /><br />UL is something we individually must take the time and effort to look for and see the effects of, while also being willing to strive to have ourselves or we may not be able to see and understand it's effects. <br /><br />One problem with UL is that it's rare to see it's effects because so few have it. Parents often have UL for their children, and sometimes spouses have it for their spouse, though it seems UL is rare in marriage today, thus why we have so much divorce. Many animals, especially dogs display UL also. <br /><br />But we can see that Christ taught unconditional love in his teachings, like when he taught us to love those who don't love us, for he said, anyone can love those who love them.<br /> <br />But again, we can't know for sure if the NT really quotes Christ correctly, or which parts are made up by authors because of agenda or imperfect memories. We can only reason those teachings out, and experiment upon them and try to live them, to see if they prove true or not. <br /><br />This life is to prove the truth to ourselves, if we will. No one can prove truth to anyone, we only learn by our own experience, depending to our desires for truth and right.Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-33071466610809535042018-08-28T16:11:50.137-07:002018-08-28T16:11:50.137-07:00Hi Eric,
you may be correct that the 65 MPH is a ...Hi Eric,<br /><br />you may be correct that the 65 MPH is a statute; however, we tend to say "you have broken the law" and not a specific statute of the law. So I agree that our use of language is not accurate and that is why I was asking DeeLyn to set some ground rules in determining what she was actually saying.<br /><br />So I am okay with "law" being defined to mean "common law" or "God given rights." That being said, then "natural law" refers to "the laws of nature"; correct. Thus, my request is that DeeLyn show the proof that "unconditional love" is "a law of nature."Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-43110787674324531582018-08-28T13:21:15.833-07:002018-08-28T13:21:15.833-07:00"However, that law of 65 MPH is not a natural..."However, that law of 65 MPH is not a natural law but a civil law."<br /><br />Speed limits and all other traffic "laws" are not laws at all. They are statutes. <br /><br />The word law had been corrupted. <br /><br />The word 'law' refers to the common law or your God given rights as a human being.Eric Kuntzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00701839435404901159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-48736295437899210102018-08-27T22:26:03.083-07:002018-08-27T22:26:03.083-07:00Thank you DeeLyn.
However, I do not understand yo...Thank you DeeLyn.<br /><br />However, I do not understand your claim other than to say it is your belief. <br /><br />If you are willing to show me the proof then lets first of all harmonize our language so that our words mean the same thing; so that I can understand what you are saying and vise-versa. Let's say that all law is set in stone and can be proved. For instance, on a highway there is a 65 MPH sign. This law is provided via the highway dept. that posted the sign because they have the responsibility of setting safe speed limits according to directives of their supervising government agencies. However, that law of 65 MPH is not a natural law but a civil law. So lets say that natural law can be proved by science and it is binding upon God and man, and civil law is established by government and it is binding upon man.<br /><br />Secondly, if Christ's words are used in a proof, then the source from which the words came can also be used in the proof. I say this because a proof is generally considered invalid if the entire source is not accepted as the source. For instance, if I were to use Christ's words in which he said: "I am the son of man," then you can also use Christ words saying "I am the son of God the Father." Thus, all Christ's words are available for use in pursuing truth, and not just the ones you believe to be true. Because, no one is the arbiter of truth except God. Thus, we do not get to pick and choose according to our belief, but according to all of Christ's words.<br /><br />So if you will, please provide your proof that unconditional love is a natural law. The term "natural law" implies that it is from nature. You know, like DNA and so forth. So if you believe unconditional love is in nature then please show the A, T, and G of the proof. That is, please show your foundation premise, then your first point, second and so forth so that I can follow what you are saying. It is a connect the dots thing for me, otherwise it makes no sense.Mr. Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17338579557352931527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-62341571292224225342018-08-27T11:20:48.678-07:002018-08-27T11:20:48.678-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15622350027166654627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32994191294973014392018-08-26T23:24:39.926-07:002018-08-26T23:24:39.926-07:00Mr. Finch,
No one knows who or what the Devil is...Mr. Finch, <br /><br />No one knows who or what the Devil is exactly, if it's just a force then no, God would not love evil, but if the Devil is a spirit personage, especially a spirit child of God then God may love the Devil but not love what the devil does. <br /><br />Just like someone can love their child or spouse even though that child or spouse chooses to do very wrong things. (Prodical son) God can separate the action from the person, because he knew the person before this life and understands them and that someday they will repent and learn a better way in the next life, for there is no 'point of no return' or a loving God would never send us here. Of course God hates the sin but not the sinner, and will help all to repent in the next life, for as Christ taught, there are none that are righteous in this life. Though pride can make us think and feel we are righteous for it blinds us to our errors. <br /><br />Christ was an example of and taught all about having unconditional love and how it is the key to becoming perfect. Everyone sins and most people support and do evil far more than they realize. But God still loves them and wishes they wouldn't, for their own sake especially and thus tries to inspire them to do good. <br /><br />But God does not judge us, judgement comes by natural law as Christ taught, that what we did to others or what we supported or allowed in this life, will be done to us in the next life. Hopefully our earthly repentance of sin will lessen those natural effects. But after we pass on we will come to naturally & quickly see, feel, experience & understand the wrongs we did during our lives. We are the one's who determine where we end up, not God. Just like parents in this life can't force success, education or good relationships on our children, they must do it for themselves. It's all just about progression, slowing learning in this life or the next to develop unconditional love. It's just far easier to learn it in this life if we will. <br /><br />If you study Near Death Experiences it will help to understand God's unconditional love, no matter what the person did during their life. God's love is unconditional but that doesn't mean he doesn't hate what people do or that he let's everyone into heaven, he couldn't even if he wanted to. For heaven is only for perfected people or it wouldn't be heaven. That takes time and work to attain. <br /><br />People end up in the next life where their earthly actions got them, where they progressed to or descended to, depending on how much they learned to have unconditional love or not. Most, if not all, of us will probably do most of our progression and learn right from wrong in the next life, when we see and feel our own deeds and how they affected others. God can't save anyone no matter how much he loves us. As Christ taught, we have to save ourselves, by living the eternal laws he taught, then we will experience joy & happiness in the next life & not the opposite.<br /><br />Unconditional love is a natural eternal law, actually the greatest of all laws of the heavens. It is by unconditional love that spirits or even civilizations or worlds progress. Societies that don't practice unconditional love self destruct, while those who do, progress. For marriage is the foundation of society and unconditional love must be the basis of marriage or the marriage will fail. And when marriages fail so does society. It's all natural law, cause & effect. It happens over & over, civilization after civilization. No society on earth seems to have learned to have unconditional love yet, so none have been able to maintain peace, freedom & prosperity for long. Lillihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06093952277840534639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-27114206101021502342018-08-24T19:56:34.812-07:002018-08-24T19:56:34.812-07:00Mr. Finch is completely correct. The idea that God...Mr. Finch is completely correct. The idea that God's love is unconditional is false doctrine. In fact this doctrine is currently being taught by the apostate LDS church and the rest of apostate Christendom. As Mr. Finch pointed out, what this false doctrine does is it minimizes or completely eliminates the true doctrine that men must keep the commandments or incur the punishments of a just God. Little by little anything goes. <br /><br />Just look at the teachings of these megachurches. Homosexuality, fornication, pride, costly apparel, worldliness, idolatry, covetousness. It's all okay. God loves you no matter what. He died for you and all you have to do is acknowledge him (if even that) and you'll be saved. <br /><br />That's BS.<br /><br />jjkram asks, "Who are we to say what God has or does not have or what God will or will not do?"<br /><br />Great question. The answer is in the scriptures of course. The scriptures refer to God hating sin and even hating individuals and entire nations. So clearly God can and does hate. In reality God is likely much more complex, far beyond our current comprehension, but the scriptures say He hates, so that must at the very least by the best way to describe how He feels towards the ungodly followers of wickedness who refuse to repent. <br /><br />The scriptures tells us that God will destroy, even kill all the wicked prior to Christ's second coming in glory. The scriptures also state that the wicked will be damned and suffer God's vengeance in hell.<br /><br />The scriptures also make it clear that God has a chosen people, the house of Israel, and that He has even cursed entire races and civilizations. This does not sound like unconditional love to me. <br /><br />So jjkram on the one hand you are correct that we ought to be careful with our perception and understanding of God, because there is a great deal that we do not know about His nature. On the other hand there is much we do know, and the best course of action is to hold fast to what we have been given from God in the scriptures until we receive further light on the matter from the Almighty.<br /><br />In my opinion the scriptures seem to suggest that God loves all of His children to a certain degree and that He loves the sinner and finds great joy in the sin bound soul that repents. However, I have to agree with Mr. Finch that once a soul has given themselves completely over to Satan and has reached the point of no return, God no longer loves that soul, at least not anywhere near to the degree that He loves the righteous. I'm sure He mourns for the souls that are lost to Satan, but they have become His enemies and will incur the punishment of a just and vengeful God. <br /><br />Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.com