tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post1577230874544709301..comments2024-03-28T15:23:18.071-07:00Comments on Pure Mormonism: The Rock Waterman Audio GlutAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-24050577236623364052012-11-03T10:25:19.254-07:002012-11-03T10:25:19.254-07:00Sure you can contact me, Zach. I've just sent ...Sure you can contact me, Zach. I've just sent you an email. But I hope you're not disappointed if I can't answer those questions you have. I'm forever getting emails from folks who have questions about doctrinal issues that are beyond the ability of my tiny dinosaur brain to answer. I've been getting a lot of emails lately that I have to just respond to with "I dunno."<br><br>I think some folks have got it in their heads that I'm some kind of gospel scholar. Well, I'm not. A mere ten years ago I was the dumbest guy in my ward, so if you hope to have the mysteries revealed through me, prepare to be disappointed.<br><br>(I'm no longer the dumbest guy in my ward only because nine years ago a guy even dumber than me moved in.)Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-34431232945814005792012-11-03T08:01:02.644-07:002012-11-03T08:01:02.644-07:00Hi Rock. I've been reading your posts for a wh...Hi Rock. I've been reading your posts for a while now. I was wondering if i can contact you personally. Say through gmail. I have a lot of questions that i hope you can possibly answer. My gmail is zachloggins24@gmail.com by the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-59434060983930716132012-10-22T08:27:16.131-07:002012-10-22T08:27:16.131-07:00Karl Waterman (this is LDSDPer)--I found that link...Karl Waterman (this is LDSDPer)--<br><br>I found that link and read much of it--<br><br>I liked it--<br><br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-30428506150083248302012-10-22T08:20:11.158-07:002012-10-22T08:20:11.158-07:00Not on any one topic, however helps explain why we...Not on any one topic, however helps explain why we may have errors in out thoughts and yet still defend them.<br><br>http://www.jonbarron.org/natural-health/belief-consistently-principle-newsletter?utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Jon%20Barron&utm_content=Biweekly+Newsletter+10%2F22%2F12<br><br>Don't believe everything you think!!!!Karl Watermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-32296862474539542452012-10-16T07:21:45.687-07:002012-10-16T07:21:45.687-07:00Sorry, Rock. I broke your rule. Only because this ...Sorry, Rock. I broke your rule. Only because this Weston dude doesn't allow comments on his blog. But this is for all other people who are curious about the link Rock just posted. I looked through Hater's posts. Here's what I would say to you curious folks.... don't bother going there. I think Weston should rename the blog to "OpenMinded-HatersShow." <br><br>Go ahead and label me as an anti or whatever, but I attend the LDS church regularly, read the B of M every day and am a card-carrying member.<br><br>Rock's agenda is finding the truth. Weston's agenda is to steal from Rock's popularity and insights and then self-promote. Save yourselves multiple slaps to your heads and skip the "awesomeness."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-78456669037100038392012-10-15T07:46:31.195-07:002012-10-15T07:46:31.195-07:00Thanks, you crazy kid;)Thanks, you crazy kid;)weston krogstadthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06759228799187904000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-23329421789021107282012-10-10T15:00:36.821-07:002012-10-10T15:00:36.821-07:00Hey Rocky, do a post about me and all of my awesom...Hey Rocky, do a post about me and all of my awesomeness.weston krogstadthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06759228799187904000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-92035936234960797152012-10-08T10:18:39.997-07:002012-10-08T10:18:39.997-07:00Thank you for your kind offer, LDSDPer. Yes, we ar...Thank you for your kind offer, LDSDPer. Yes, we are fine now. Please give the money to someone you find deserving.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-9200439504201596272012-10-08T08:14:37.408-07:002012-10-08T08:14:37.408-07:00LDSDPer--I listened to all of the audio 'thing...LDSDPer--<br><br>I listened to all of the audio 'thingies'--<br><br>very interesting--<br><br>good, I thought.<br><br>We had just come up with $5 we could spare--<br><br>!<br><br>Slow--<br><br>It sounds as though you are covered; maybe we can find someone else to give the $5 to--<br><br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-4466955987194696122012-10-07T17:42:00.533-07:002012-10-07T17:42:00.533-07:00I guess I should add that now that we have this wo...I guess I should add that now that we have this wonderful car, please, no more donations are necessary. We can never be grateful enough to all who have helped get us out of this awful scrape, and I have personally thanked all of you I was able to. (some funds were mailed anonymously. I wish you would tell me who you are.)<br><br>We are absolutely convinced (in fact, we had spiritual confirmation) that this particular automobile was divinely placed here for our use, and you can call it a coincidence if you want, but the donations received through Friday were just enough to cover its cost. If I were to hope or look forward to anything more at this point, I would be guilty of avarice, and I don't want that sin on my head.<br><br>I know that those of you who were prompted to assist us did so by inspiration, and it is my experience that when God discerns a need, he gives usually gives just enough. So thank you. We now have sufficient for our need. So please, if you are someone who just came on board here and desire to help out, there are others out there more deserving right now than us. (In fact, I got donations from a at least two of you who I know should not have been sacrificing for our sake when you are facing such difficulties of your own.) <br><br>Now, that having been said, I have to share a quick story with you. This car we got is 24 years old, but pristine in appearance and has very low miles. It drives beautifully. I think I can make it last 20 more years.<br><br>But during the 70 mile drive home, I noticed the brake pedal was quite soft. I asked a mechanic friend of mine to confirm my concerns , and he agreed the master cylinder appeared to need replacing.<br><br>This turns out to be something I'm able to do myself, but in checking with the auto parts store, a replacement part would cost $124.00. That's money I don't have right now.<br><br>But...yesterday some kind straggler deposited $25 into my Paypal Account, and today someone else sent $100 more.<br><br>Ain't God great?<br><br>But seriously, I'm pretty sure that's all we'll need. You can stop now.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-75376613166618553722012-10-07T16:51:22.712-07:002012-10-07T16:51:22.712-07:00That looks like interesting stuff, Voluntaryist. ...That looks like interesting stuff, Voluntaryist. Do you know what plant it is derived from? I didn't see that information.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38851310747091019282012-10-07T11:57:55.386-07:002012-10-07T11:57:55.386-07:00Fusion, I don't know from personal experience,...Fusion, I don't know from personal experience, but maybe Astaxanthan can cure your migraines in the way it did this person?:<br><br>http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/121264.htmlVoluntaryisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02070172298710492866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69037942571840708802012-10-06T10:56:40.436-07:002012-10-06T10:56:40.436-07:00Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to all who lent us...Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to all who lent us your assistance to get a decent used car to replace the one that broke. We now have exactly the amount needed for a particular car that we believe the Lord directed us to. Everything has worked out perfectly because many of you decided to act as God's hands in this endeavor.<br><br>Connie also expresses her love to all of you for your prayers and this huge kindness.<br><br>We are now good to go. Perhaps in a future post I will tell the story, but for now, we are just grateful as can be.<br><br>God's blessings on you all,<br><br>RockAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-90362064916720931502012-10-04T12:53:16.556-07:002012-10-04T12:53:16.556-07:00You're very welcome.You're very welcome.<br><br><br> <br><br>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-23644898696093237802012-10-04T12:11:19.781-07:002012-10-04T12:11:19.781-07:00Good luck with the personal challenges you are goi...Good luck with the personal challenges you are going through.weston krogstadthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06759228799187904000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-71018137341610279862012-10-04T12:05:36.774-07:002012-10-04T12:05:36.774-07:00Okay, anonymous, I received your very kind gift to...Okay, anonymous, I received your very kind gift today. I recognized it as the one with the yellow post-it note.<br><br>I am extremely grateful. I wish you would private message me, though so I can thank you properly.<br><br>Today's mail brought a dozen wonderful gifts from you friends, and when I say I am without words to express my gratitude to you all, I'm sure you know I'm sincere, as I never seem to be without words.<br><br>Thank you all! You are truly the hands of God.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80879849415504449952012-10-04T04:54:00.954-07:002012-10-04T04:54:00.954-07:00Rock,I really appreciate your post, as always, and...Rock,<br><br>I really appreciate your post, as always, and my heartfelt prayers and thoughts go to your wife and you as you sort out these trials of the flesh.Wayfaring Foolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16570689515291843700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-80564220767048352022012-10-03T15:04:22.683-07:002012-10-03T15:04:22.683-07:00Sachiko, I have been to a wedding or two in an LDS...Sachiko, I have been to a wedding or two in an LDS church. They *do* like to emphasize getting married in the temple, the "right" way, and so forth. One of those weddings was mine. My spouse was not able to be sealed (which I was grateful for, later, when I was miserable and decided to leave him).<br><br>At the time I was married, it did not bother me. Probably because I knew I was not the one preventing the sealing. How's that for blind and proud?<br><br>However, after reading many things, including your experience, I think if I ever did marry outside the temple, I would not marry in an LDS church.<br><br>One thing I thought of a while ago, that I would like to do (it wouldn't work for someone who has loved ones who want to go to the original wedding, though) is marry in the temple then go to a place I used to live. There, I would rent/find a place and invite my friends and family of all kinds and ages to come to a vow exchange.<br><br>I have a friend who is free-spirited enough to be the ... oh, I guess, master of ceremonies, a person to get everyone's attention then explain a little why we are there. Then spouse and I would speak the vows we had written.<br><br>It would be informal, a potluck, and it would be in the early autumn. No gifts.<br><br>Well, anyway. It's a nice dream.Toninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-41124653390576784882012-10-03T12:49:30.142-07:002012-10-03T12:49:30.142-07:00Bruce, would you private message me please? Either...Bruce, would you private message me please? Either on Facebook or at Rockwaterman@gmail.comAlan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-69400137131182043162012-10-03T07:35:36.524-07:002012-10-03T07:35:36.524-07:00Sachiko,You said this: "It's hard to keep...Sachiko,<br><br>You said this: "It's hard to keep paying tithing and keep on trying, still feeling treated like a second-class citizen at church." and this: "I've found the more I try to obey leaders, the worse I feel."<br><br>Have you considered taking "tithing" back into your own stewardship? I have been doing that for a couple of years now, and I must say... it feels good to get out of bondage. The church has its flaxen cords around the necks of the members, with the intent of binding us with strong cords forever.<br><br>I'm not saying you should jump into it completely, but try an experiment. Perhaps you can set aside a portion of your tithing... maybe a quarter of it... and use it to assist people directly. Keep your eyes open for someone in need (believe me, you will be presented opportunities), and anonymously as possible, send them the money. See what happens. See if you feel "worse" or better. If you do feel worse, you can go back to paying into the institution and letting them do what they do with the money, and you just wash your hands of it.<br><br>But if you feel better, perhaps this becomes a message that God trusts you. He knows your heart and will not condemn you for wanting to express more than a check mark on a tally sheet.<br><br>--DJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-38326323364004324562012-10-03T06:09:57.994-07:002012-10-03T06:09:57.994-07:00Oh my, I am so sorry for how you were treated, thi...Oh my, I am so sorry for how you were treated, this is awful but not a surprise.<br><br><br>A and Ehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12475638083186094154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-84858299278633789472012-10-03T00:31:43.981-07:002012-10-03T00:31:43.981-07:00Sachiko,I'm sorry for how you've been so m...Sachiko,<br><br>I'm sorry for how you've been so mistreated through the years and especially at your wedding of all places. But it unfortunately doesn't surprise me for I have also experienced the same mistreatment,(to put it mildly) from most all leaders I've had the last 20 years.<br><br>But all our sad experience with Church leaders is good if it awakens us to the awful situation of the Church today, which is a state of complete apostasy I believe. Which is why we see so much disrespect and falsehoods from and taught by most all leaders. <br><br>For I believe that the Church went into apostasy after the death of Joseph Smith and many doctrines and teachings were changed or discarded, like Joseph's commandment to have 'public' weddings where all could join in celebration with the couple.<br><br>The ancient prophets of the BoM repeatedly warned of a latter day apostasy of the Church of God, where false prophets and false teachers would come into the Church and deceive 'everyone' and cause them to become corrupt, except a rare few.<br><br>I believe Brigham Young (and all who supported him) lost any and all Priesthood or Keys (see D&C 121) he may have held and his worthiness to be a leader in the Church, thus becoming a false prophet, because of his preaching and practicing of the whoredom of polygamy, among other serious sins and falsehoods he led the Saints to believe in and commit.<br><br>Brigham Young, like most everyone else in Nauvoo, surely knew that Joseph continually warned the Saints that anyone who fell for the evil of polygamy would be damned. Yet BY started preaching and practicing it anyway, even openly, after Joseph died and most of the members fell for his evil and falsehoods and followed him, and completely ignored their recollections of Joseph's constant warnings against such things like polygamy. <br><br>Joseph never preached or practiced polygamy, such vile accusations against him are based on lies and hearsay, which isn't surprising that there are so many lies about Joseph since Brigham Young taught the Saints that it was ok to lie if it was for the benefit of the Church.<br><br>I would encourage you to do further study of the 'true' history of the Church and the true teachings of Joseph Smith, which Brigham Young cast out of the scriptures and replaced with the philosophies and falsehoods of men.<br><br>Such answers and understanding from study and prayer will help you make sense of why church leaders today too, from the top to the bottom, all support, teach and do evil, things 'contrary' to the teachings of Christ and Joseph Smith, while still thinking and acting like they are righteous and right.<br><br>We need to come to see things as they really are.Anon 23noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-50533524095944104312012-10-03T00:26:23.192-07:002012-10-03T00:26:23.192-07:00Your story is horrifying, Sachiko, but not that su...Your story is horrifying, Sachiko, but not that surprising. In my experience with LDS church weddings, every effort is taken to keep it from resembling a standard church wedding. At a wedding I participated in, the bishop told the organist she was not permitted to play "Here Comes the Bride." It had to be generic, prelude type music only.<br><br>Still, these church weddings seem to be more spiritually satisfying than the average temple sealing. That's probably what irks the Powers That Be.Alan Rock Watermanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04971243364867111868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-49059810115565809952012-10-02T23:45:04.522-07:002012-10-02T23:45:04.522-07:00Thank you so much for your words on this! It is a ...Thank you so much for your words on this! It is a relief to know I am not the only one who feels this way.<br><br>My husband and I were married civilly by a bishop and it was a terrible mistake. He went strictly by the book and proceeded to suck all the joy and celebratory feeling out of what should have been a wonderful ceremony for us.<br><br>We were not permitted to marry in the chapel; instead he put us in the Young Women's room where there wasn't enough room. During the ceremony itself he suddenly decided not to have vows for us, and instead took out a picture of his grandchildren and proceeded to ramble on about them for awhile. And on, and on. The overall attitude was one of scorn and contempt--after all, we were sinners and didn't deserve a REAL wedding; we were meant to be a public example.<br><br>We had invited many non-member friends to the wedding who were appalled and told me later, privately, that they didn't think very much of a church that would treat its members that way. <br><br>We were told that we had to be married by a bishop in the church in order to be considered good members; we thought if we obeyed that the Lord would bless us.<br><br>The really sad/scary part to me is that these leaders probably think they're being really nice--as nice as second-class members like me and my husband deserve, I suppose. They think this is really ok. And it's not just bishops "being human"-our wedding was appalling to the degree that it was performed in accordance to the Church Handbook! The church has codified this kind of awful non-wedding wedding and expects "good" bishops to inflict it on members!<br><br>I want to believe the Brethren don't support poor treatment of the members, but the experiences of our last 13 years of marriage in many different wards have sadly confirmed that leaders actually seem to be expected to mistreat some members in specific ways.<br><br>I really wish someone could have told us we didn't HAVE to obey the bishop and submit to having him ruin our wedding.<br><br>I wish I could someday SEE this mysterious church handbook that in my whole lifetime in the church I'd never known existed, that apparently has been the rule by which I've been judged. It's not fair to judge members according to rules and standards we've not been informed of. It's like a series of traps. Do they want members to fail? Are they looking for reasons to punish or exclude members? I can't think of a good reason for keeping the handbook as a "secret combination". <br><br>I've found the more I try to obey leaders, the worse I feel. My husband and I are trying to raise our 6 kids in the church, but every time they have a lesson on obeying leaders instead of a lesson on finding and obeying the will of the Lord, my motivation to keep dragging my family back to church dies a little. It's hard to keep paying tithing and keep on trying, still feeling treated like a second-class citizen at church.<br><br>I don't think my local leaders or the Brethren could care less about us, but don't they see that when others outside the church witness poor treatment of members, that it drives others away? I'm tired of members being blamed for anything a leader does wrong.<br><br>Sorry about the length of this comment; I'm just so relieved to not feel alone in these struggles.<br>Sachikonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1342380624800894371.post-36981538355889623472012-10-02T18:17:48.141-07:002012-10-02T18:17:48.141-07:00This is anon from Sept 29th, 2012 8:03pm. Nope, th...This is anon from Sept 29th, 2012 8:03pm. <br><br>Nope, those weren't them. But glad to hear that others are contributing to a brother in need. <br><br>You'll see the yellow post it note.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com